The battles amongst Logia DF users

[Penny]

I have finals tomorrow, and I find myself unable to think without Blackbeard's chubby yet adorable face popping up in my mind.

But anyways. In the anime, there's another filler arc coming up, starring the return of Foxy.

Which got me thinking.

Would the Noro Noro beam work on logia types? Could you slow down Enel? If Foxy did slow down thunder/electricity, would it be NOTICEABLE? Enel can travel at light speeds.

Would Foxy be able to slow down Kizaru?

Heck. Let's just stick with Hancock. Her DF power to turn people to stone. Could you turn ice into stone?

Would the Horo Horo no mi work on the Goro Goro no mi? Perona has never failed to bring down anyone's spirit (with one exception), and the more arrogant a person is, the more brutal the spirit gets crushed. Could Perona bring down Enel? Even if she could, could she do anything to him afterwards?

AND FINALLY. THE ULTIMATE QUESTION. Would the Kage Kage no mi work on Enel? Do Logia types have shadows? I'm sure they do, but can you grab an element's shadow?

And how would Gecko Moria be able to obtain the opportunity to seize a Logia user's shadow?

I guess that wasn't a good question. Moria simply cannot combat elemental logia types evenly.

And lastly.

Would Kuma be able to deflect thunder? I know Enel is long gone, but I'm using Enel as the standard example of an overpowered Logia user.

Could Kuma deflect El Thor? Could Kuma punch so many holes through Enel with his rapid-fire air cannon to stop Enel from regenerating?

Could Kuma annoy Enel forever? Provided that whenever he gets tired, he just teleports away from Enel? Would Kuma be one of the rare paramecia types who can fight evenly with Logia types?

Argh. I'm sorry for this long post. But just some nagging questions. Without Oda's official answers, I doubt we will ever get a solid answer, but I think these are nice things to think and discuss about. :3

Again. I'm also sorry if someone already posted similar thoughts on paramecia fruits effecting logia types.

And urgh. Leave Blackbeard out of this. That chubby overpowered dumbass is an exception of logia users.

Something tells me that my image wasn't resized properly. *Sighs*
I will remove it if anyone finds it a hassle. Saving it at full res. makes it an awesome wallpaper though.

Spoiler

 

[Tenryuken]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

Errr. Thanks, I guess.

But no thoughts on what I wrote?

:3

You want me to comment your post?
OK.

I have finals tomorrow, and I find myself unable to think without Blackbeard's chubby yet adorable face popping up in my mind.

But anyways. In the anime, there's another filler arc coming up, starring the return of Foxy.

Thanks for the info but how do you know that?

Which got me thinking.

Would the Noro Noro beam work on logia types?

Yes.

Heck. Let's just stick with Hancock. Her DF power to turn people to stone. Could you turn ice into stone?

For now we know that everybody with perverted toughts can be turned in stone.

Would the Horo Horo no mi work on the Goro Goro no mi? Perona has never failed to bring down anyone's spirit (with one exception), and the more arrogant a person is, the more brutal the spirit gets crushed. Could Perona bring down Enel? Even if she could, could she do anything to him afterwards?

That's why I voted everybody except Teach due to his DF.

AND FINALLY. THE ULTIMATE QUESTION. Would the Kage Kage no mi work on Enel? Do Logia types have shadows? I'm sure they do, but can you grab an element's shadow?

Yes they have shadows(I think).
I could say that it's an instant kill for any Logia during the day except Kizaru and maybe Teach cuz they still keep their powers.

And how would Gecko Moria be able to obtain the opportunity to seize a Logia user's shadow?

By doing the same thing he did to Robin, if they let him of course.

I guess that wasn't a good question. Moria simply cannot combat elemental logia types evenly.

He is a fat and slow Giant and relay TOTALLY on his DF.
he'd better pray to never be in conflict with Teach.

Would Kuma be able to deflect thunder? I know Enel is long gone, but I'm using Enel as the standard example of an overpowered Logia user.

Kuma can defelct ANYTHING.

Could Kuma annoy Enel forever?

No, Enel can travel trough metal.

Would Kuma be one of the rare paramecia types who can fight evenly with Logia types?

I guess so.

And urgh. Leave Blackbeard out of this. That chubby overpowered dumbass is an exception of logia users.

What's all the hate for Teach?
And besides, you put him in the poll.

Spoiler

Nice.

Edit: damn it!!! I didn't vote Enel but just count +1 to Enel.

 

[Penny]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

Lol. Thanks, Tenryuken~!

- Hm? Thriller Bark arc has just ended in the anime. As we all know, there are always sneak peeks to the next episode after an episode ends. We see the Mugiwara going to a water park, and meeting Foxy, Hamburger, and that girl. What's her name? Porche?

- Ah. It's not a simple yes. For instance, how slow would thunder go after being affected by the Noro Noro beam? Enel travels at light speed. And besides, being elementals, can't logia type just break off the body part affected and regenerate?

- Ah. Don't say perverted. Say "people" who lust after her and find her beauty awe-inspiring. It's ... nicer-sounding.

- Lol. I know. I feel like Perona is also somewhat overpowered. But could she do anything to the logia types after she crushes their spirit? Her spirit bombs wouldn't work.

- I don't think that side effect works though. "an instant kill for any Logia"
I mean. It's the same principle as the regeneration. Logia types can create as much of their element as they want. So if they start melting away slowly (like what happened to the Mugiwaras at dawn), they can just regain their lost limbs. And besides, logia types can "shatter" and reform at will. Kage kage no mi loses its horror-inducing qualities against logias.

- Lol. Give Moria some compliments~! :3
I mean. He is a total badass. Look at his "island". Look at his theme of a dead man's theme park. A moonlight theme and an ambition to rule over an army of dead! That has a certain romance to it! I love Oda for introducing this goth arc.

- Since Kuma can deflect anything, what would happen if he puts his meaty palm on a logia type? Theoretically speaking, a well-trained logia would have a part of his/her body blasted away. The effectiveness is lost though. Which is why Kuma can fight evenly with (theoretically) most logias, assuming that he dodges all the attacks.
But Kuma would need a seastone to hurt the logias (or their natural weaknesses).

I wonder if Kuma can CARRY a seastone. He is a cyborg, after all. Would it be like wearing Smoker's heavy-layered jacket?

- Kuma can deflect metal away in one second, and fly at Enel's speed through where the metal was a second ago.

- LOLOL. I don't hate Teach. I adore Teach. But he's an exception to the general rule, because his DF ability is unusual, even among logia types. We don't know what other exceptions apply to his DF.


Relax~!

 

[Tenryuken]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

- Ah. It's not a simple yes. For instance, how slow would thunder go after being affected by the Noro Noro beam? Enel travels at light speed. And besides, being elementals, can't logia type just break off the body part affected and regenerate?

Yes but he will probably slowly regenerate.

- Lol. I know. I feel like Perona is also somewhat overpowered.

Most of the Pirate girls in OP are overpowered.
Bonney, Hancock, Robin, Alvida(even sharp objects slide on her body).

But could she do anything to the logia types after she crushes their spirit?

She can cut their heads with seastone.

I mean. It's the same principle as the regeneration. Logia types can create as much of their element as they want. So if they start melting away slowly (like what happened to the Mugiwaras at dawn), they can just regain their lost limbs. And besides, logia types can "shatter" and reform at will. Kage kage no mi loses its horror-inducing qualities against logias.

If they don't have any shadows wherever they will shatter and reform the same thing will happen unless they are in darkness.

- Lol. Give Moria some compliments~! :3
I mean. He is a total badass. Look at his "island". Look at his theme of a dead man's theme park. A moonlight theme and an ambition to rule over an army of dead! That has a certain romance to it! I love Oda for introducing this goth arc.

The only Shishibukai he can defeat is Mihawk.

- Since Kuma can deflect anything, what would happen if he puts his meaty palm on a logia type? Theoretically speaking, a well-trained logia would have a part of his/her body blasted away. The effectiveness is lost though. Which is why Kuma can fight evenly with (theoretically) most logias, assuming that he dodges all the attacks.
But Kuma would need a seastone to hurt the logias (or their natural weaknesses).

I agree with you.

- Kuma can deflect metal away in one second, and fly at Enel's speed through where the metal was a second ago.

I ment that Kuma himself is made of metal and there is an electric network runing trough his body.
That's why if Enel could come in contact with him, Kuma would be death meat.

 

[bittman]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

Oh man, so many questions so little time. On the voting, I voted for nothing because Perona would not be able to defeat any of the above. Her ability may be overpowered, but she is personally a weak fighter. I'll get on it a bit more later maybe.

Would the Noro Noro beam work on logia types? Could you slow down Enel? If Foxy did slow down thunder/electricity, would it be NOTICEABLE? Enel can travel at light speeds.

Would Foxy be able to slow down Kizaru?

I would imagine the Noro Noro beam can slow anything down. I mean, it doesn't just slow a person but solids also (see the cannonballs). For Foxy to hit Enel or Kizaru, he would have to have seriously powered up. On that note, Enel cannot travel at light speeds. Lightning travels at the speed of light, but if Enel could truly elementalise himself and move at the speed of light, how did Luffy ever beat him? People overestimate Enel all the time with this one trait in mind.

Heck. Let's just stick with Hancock. Her DF power to turn people to stone. Could you turn ice into stone?

Sure, because really the Devil Fruit user is not in the element 24/7. How do you ever hold a piece of paper (Vivre Card) if you're made completely out of fire? They are humans who can turn into an element, so they still have all the standard human organs including skin which could easily turn into stone if they were lured by Hancock. Don't know if any Logias we've seen are weak enough to lose to Hancock with only that though.

Would the Horo Horo no mi work on the Goro Goro no mi? Perona has never failed to bring down anyone's spirit (with one exception), and the more arrogant a person is, the more brutal the spirit gets crushed. Could Perona bring down Enel? Even if she could, could she do anything to him afterwards?

Sure, Perona could defeat many logias in a mental sense. All her negative attacks were ever done once, I imagine she could keep it up with ease to the point where even the bravest fighter would be nothing but a slave. That said, Perona is not physically strong and her ghostly attacks aren't at lightspeed. Unless one of the poll'ed characters are idiotic enough to go "oh a ghost, let's see what happens when it goes through me!" they would not lose. Only the Strawhats are this idiotic, which is why we love them.

AND FINALLY. THE ULTIMATE QUESTION. Would the Kage Kage no mi work on Enel? Do Logia types have shadows? I'm sure they do, but can you grab an element's shadow?

And how would Gecko Moria be able to obtain the opportunity to seize a Logia user's shadow?

I guess that wasn't a good question. Moria simply cannot combat elemental logia types evenly.

As I mentioned with Hancock, Logias are still very much human. Humans have shadows as they have skin. If Enel was 100% lightning, he'd be permanently impossible to look at and would never be able to drink or eat. They do not "control their powers to make them appear human", they are 100% human with the ability to become an element. Not 100% element with the ability to become human. So on this note, since they have solid skin they have shadows. Unlike the majority of people here, I still rate Moria quite highly and I believe he could take down Logias. That said, most Logia users are stronger than even my over-rating of Moria. I can't see Aokoji being manipulated enough to have his shadow taken, but I could see it happening to Enel.

And lastly.

Would Kuma be able to deflect thunder? I know Enel is long gone, but I'm using Enel as the standard example of an overpowered Logia user.

Could Kuma deflect El Thor? Could Kuma punch so many holes through Enel with his rapid-fire air cannon to stop Enel from regenerating?

Could Kuma annoy Enel forever? Provided that whenever he gets tired, he just teleports away from Enel? Would Kuma be one of the rare paramecia types who can fight evenly with Logia types?

Kuma is top tier Shichibukai imo. I rate him as high as any logia we've seen. If he can reflect Ussop's firebird, what stops him from reflecting every other element? Enel would be an easy win for Kuma, and unlike the majority of other DF users, I believe Kuma has more chance against Blackbeard given his cybernetics and teleportation ability. And I do believe he can damage through logias since his power is not "Air Blast" but "Reflection".

Anyway, hope that answered everything from my opinion ^^

 

[Penny]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

Lol~! Intellectual discussions~!
Thanks, bittman! I always loved your solid inputs.

- Enel has shown himself to be able to fully elementalize on several occasions (whenever he teleports). I attribute his loss to Luffy due to his extreme overconfidence, and Luffy's super-charged rifle (power-boosted by the golden ball's momentum). It shouldn't be an overestimation. Living above the clouds made Enel a big softie. If he was on the Blue Sea, after receiving a few scars, Enel could have become a shichibukai. I can't see him losing to Kizaru at all.

- Logia users have become elementals. If they so choose, they could very well stay in their pure 100% elemental state. Amaru was such an example. Even in a state of relaxation, Kizaru and Aokiji are no longer humans either. They are a mix. Not even 50-50. I would say more element than human. Enel eats apples because he likes their tastes (which shows some remnants of his humanity).

- Lololol. I completely agree with you on the Perona point. If she could hit a Logia user by accident with a negative hollow, assuming she can keep it up, she could permanently mentally disable one. But since she's physically weak, she can't really "defeat" anyone physically. Seastones should be out of the question, as she's a devil fruit user too.

- I disagree on this point. They are no longer 100% human. The One Piece wikia cites Oda, but the credulity is debatable. However, I must say I agree. Logia users can exist without the medium of air. Enel's mini-arc is one solid example.

However. I do agree that Moria is too severely underrated on this board. Moria deserves a lot more praise for his mastery of his DF. He may seem over-reliant, but a full-mastery of a Devil Fruit's ability grants an immense power boost. People praise Crocodile for it, yet criticize Moria for using his too much. Moria is able to SURVIVE the New World and become a shichibukai by relying on his DFabilities. He is, though, physically, what Luffy calls him. "A giant leek."

Lol. I doubt Enel would be that naive again. After losing to a Blue Sea Monkey, I think if he ever reappears, he would be a lot smarter and rely on his long distance thunder attacks. I feel like Moria is much more of a shadow-to-hand combat person. Brick Bat has no effect on logias, after all.

- Ah. But the firebird was one entity, and he deflectd the firebird dead on its beak. I think if Kizaru ever let Kuma experiment, if Kuma places his meaty pam on Kizaru's back, Kizaru's chest would be blasted away, but his body will not. Since Kuma can deflect things at the speed of light, the momentum of his forceful deflection would send a normal person flying. But skilled logia users have adapted, become elements on contact. When Zoro cuts Enel, the part he cuts turns into electricity, but Enel could solidify and grasp. I believe it applies also in Kuma's circumstance, but until Oda shows us a panel where Kuma openly revolts against the admirals, or blasts away some poor logia user from Whitebeard's fleet (Ace shouldn't be the only one), we might never know.

Lol. bittman. You were trying to simplify something I was musing about for ages. Sorry, buddy, but I thought it out too.

Here's a little something for you though. :3

Spoiler

 

[Gecko Moria]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

Probably none of them. Perona isnt exactly that powerful and all of those logia users have greater experience and strength over her so...

 

[Tenryuken]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

Lightning travels at the speed of light, but if Enel could truly elementalise himself and move at the speed of light, how did Luffy ever beat him?

Enel could have killed him countless times.

I attribute his loss to Luffy due to his extreme overconfidence, and Luffy's super-charged rifle (power-boosted by the golden ball's momentum).

He can travel trough metal and of course gold.
If he used his brain properly, he would have gone trough the golden ball and thus taking no damage.

Ah. But the firebird was one entity, and he deflectd the firebird dead on its beak. I think if Kizaru ever let Kuma experiment, if Kuma places his meaty pam on Kizaru's back, Kizaru's chest would be blasted away, but his body will not. Since Kuma can deflect things at the speed of light, the momentum of his forceful deflection would send a normal person flying. But skilled logia users have adapted, become elements on contact.

There is a Kuma vs Kizaru tread.

 

[toxun]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

I think Perona can bring down almost any person, as long as not used to live in fear like Usopp nor fast enough to evade her attack (as Kuma maybe Kizaru or Enel might fast enought to evade her Horo-horo Hollow). But I don't thing they could resist horo-horo hollow if their hit. But her secondary form attack won't work on Kizaru nor Enel (mini horo ghost wrap) because they're immune to common physical, unless Haki involved or their power restrained .

 

[Penny]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

Lol.

@Gecko Moria: I designed the polls to be under special circumstances. I stated that the situation would be in her favor, as in she has already separated from her body and is in ghost/astral form, with her real body somewhere far away. Would she be able to fight logias evenly? The logias can't harm an illusion, but similarly, all Perona can do is crush their spirits. However, could she somehow improvise and scare a logia type to death with her DF ability based on deception and fear? Or is it just the Mugiwaras who are too ... emotional?

@Tenryuken: I agree with most of what you said. I do love Luffy, but the Goro Goro no mi is just too awesome. Enel's arc was waaay too short.

I was talking about a Kuma vs. logia, not Kizaru. To become a Marine Admiral, you must have a huge amount of experience too. On the other hand, there are pompous egoists like Enel, who are admittedly overpowered, but every so often you will find a freak made out of rubber.

 

[Gecko Moria]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

@Gecko Moria: I designed the polls to be under special circumstances. I stated that the situation would be in her favor, as in she has already separated from her body and is in ghost/astral form, with her real body somewhere far away. Would she be able to fight logias evenly? The logias can't harm an illusion, but similarly, all Perona can do is crush their spirits. However, could she somehow improvise and scare a logia type to death with her DF ability based on deception and fear? Or is it just the Mugiwaras who are too ... emotional?

I just cant imagine Perona taking down any of these logia guys...sorry :3 I dont think any of these guys would get "scared to death".

 

[Tenryuken]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

I just cant imagine Perona taking down any of these logia guys...sorry :3 I dont think any of these guys would get "scared to death".

It's not that they would get "scared to death", it's more like they lose their self-estime.

 

[Gecko Moria]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

It's not that they would get "scared to death", it's more like they lose their self-estime.

They re some of the strongest, most feared pirates/marines in the world. I dont think they'd be "lose self estime" so easily to a little girl

 

[Tenryuken]

It's not because she is a lil' girl.
It's due to her DF.
I doubt her age has something to do with that.

 

[Gecko Moria]

It's not because she is a lil' girl.
It's due to her DF.
I doubt her age has something to do with that.

Your comparing a girl who no-one knows about (and has basically in reputation) to famous pirates/marines etc that have proven their power numerous times. If her DF can cripple guys like Aokiji and Blackbeard she can defeat just about anyone in the OP world. If thats so why does she serve under Moria? And why did she get dealt away with so easily by Kuma?

 

[Tenryuken]

Your post is funny.
According to what Luffy did in the OP world I can assume that he is a famous pirate/marine that proved is power numerous times.
She still could cripple Luffy.
Since she could cripple Franky I am confident that she would've cripple Kuma if her ghost went trough him.

 

[Penny]

Re: Late night thinking about Logia types.

They re some of the strongest, most feared pirates/marines in the world. I dont think they'd be "lose self estime" so easily to a little girl

... Um.

Wasn't it established that Perona's hollow "hollowed" out a person's confidence in himself or herself? That is the Horo Horo no mi's strongest power (emotionally and mentally speaking).

It does not matter if you are the strongest or most feared. In fact, those who are stronger or are feared more are more susceptible to the Horo Horo no mi.

Remember why Ussop wasn't affected? That was because Ussop was inherently negative about his abilities.

You might have misunderstood Perona's ability a bit there.

 

[Gecko Moria]

Most of those guys there will have haki, which, as we have seen, can be used to nullify the effects of Devil Fruit. And others like Kizaru and Eneru would be too fast for Perona to hit. The only chance of Perona's ability working on them is if they allowed themselves to be hit and at their level I think they would know better.

 

[Penny]

Most of those guys there will have haki, which, as we have seen, can be used to nullify the effects of Devil Fruit. And others like Kizaru and Eneru would be too fast for Perona to hit. The only chance of Perona's ability working on them is if they allowed themselves to be hit and at their level I think they would know better.

Lol. I was agreeing with you.

Ah. But you forget. At their level, they are actually more careless. They are too confident in their logia abilities. Recall when Kizaru got torn up by Musicman Apoo?

They would definitely allow themselves to be hit, because that is how confident they are in their own abilities.

 

[Gecko Moria]

Lol. I was agreeing with you.

Ah. But you forget. At their level, they are actually more careless. They are too confident in their logia abilities. Recall when Kizaru got torn up by Musicman Apoo?

They would definitely allow themselves to be hit, because that is how confident they are in their own abilities.

Kizaru wasnt being careless when he got torn up by Appo. Its was because he was fighting 3 Supernova captains at the same time and Appo hit him from on top of a building and his sound ability was strangely able to break light. And even when he got blown up he was able to reincarnate himself good as new and subsequently beat up Appo, a Supernova in his own right. That is the power of logias. And even if they allowed themselves to be hit, all of them have enough haki to nullify the effect.