Year Round The Football/Soccer Thread v2

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thsv

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So far they have maintained the number of South American teams so at least there won't be more awful african, asian or middle east teams than usual.
I take exception to that comment. Two Far Eastern teams made it to the second round in South Africa, the first time either South Korea or Japan had managed to win a World Cup finals game off home soil. The poor african showing was more down to the FA's rather than the teams. Nigeria, Ivory Coast and Cameroon got new coaches inbetween the African Cup of Nations and the World Cup. And Ivory coast had really bad luck with the draw (That's two World Cups on the trot now where they've been drawn against a former World Cup winning nation and a european team that made the Euro's quarter finals two years earlier). Algeria were just unlucky with one freak goal (Slovenia) and one late, late, late goal (USA). South Africa declined rapidly between being awarded the World Cup and hosting it. Although they did better than I expected. and in case you missed it kkck Ghana knocked out Austraila, Serbia and the USA on their way to the quarter finals.

Ok, I can't defend any of the middle eastern teams. Wait! What middle eastern teams? None of them qualified this time round.
 
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kkck

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^Well, in turn there were 5 South American teams in the rounds of 16 and there was 1 South American Team in each round of the Quarter finals. All I am saying is that On average South American Teams are far better than African, Asian and Middle eastern Teams. Heck, Brazil and Argentina(without maradona) generally speak for themselves. Uruguay and Paraguay are also excellent and did a pretty good good during the last world cup. And below them Colombia, Ecuador and Chile are pretty good and surprisingly they are getting better each year. Lets face it, did we need a North Korea in the world cup? Of course not, they were awful for the most part (I was surprised they gave Brazil so much trouble though). And how about Algeria and Nigeria? Pretty bad performances if I recall. Cote d Ivore and Cameroon are pretty good but from there the level decreases quite fast IMO. South Africa did so poorly it seemed as if they had no business in their own world cup. There are in fact pretty good teams in Africa that do bring something to the world cup however the average is pretty low, at least IMO. The world cup would have more exciting matches if the South American number of teams allowed is maintained(contrary to their original intention of decreasing the number of teams allowed).
 

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[MODE EVIL ON] You don't have to worry about North Korea's team: the trainer & the players are probably in some kind of prison. So, they lack training for the next world cup [MODE EVIL OFF]

At least, some players escaped during the world cup (4 missing players I think) ...

About African team, Oceanic teams, Asian teams, ... FIFA wants the world cup to be a world event. If it was only about the best teams, only South-American & European teams would be at the world cup. Honestly, the best asian team & the best african team & the best oceanic team would have the worst trouble to even qualify if they were in the Euro Zone.

The concacaf zone is also a joke. Just give US & Mexico a free qualifying ticket. It would be the same.

EDIT: and about GHANA doing a good world cup, give me a break. Serbia was absolutely awful in the first game. In the second game, they face the weak Australia & it's a draw. They lost to Germany. After that, they win just one game against the US. And It's not like US have such a scary team ... (Seriously, Belgium would already be a big challenge for US in a soccer game & we didn't qualify ...)
 
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kakashi919

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The concacaf zone is also a joke. Just give US & Mexico a free qualifying ticket. It would be the same.
:oh

I agree that the quality of most other teams aren't up there with Mexico and USA... but things are changing and this should never happen, even if it's a joke. Everyone was complaining about the last world cup,saying it's the worst WC in years. I don't agree with this at all.... just because the "weaker" teams were playing good football and causing some upsets.

Don't bash concacaf again :pwnge
 

Imperium

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This is one thing I commend FIFA for. By making the WC larger, more teams get to participate at a higher level. This is the type of learning curve and experience that is vital to any burgeoning football nation. A perfect example is Turkey, they were the whipping boys of football not long ago, but after so much participation with higher quality teams they began to steadily improve. And now they are a strong team.

There are some countries that will most likely never reach a high level, (football has a lot to with population diversity, social conditions etc) however limiting the number of weaker teams of countries that can reach a higher level, in top competitions will not help in getting them to improve. It in fact does the opposite, it will only hinder them. Places like Africa, Asia, they do not only have untapped marketing potential (the only thing FIFA at times cares about >.>) but they also have untapped footballing potential. We already see many African players playing at the highest level and there are some quality African teams, the same can happen with Asian teams. Making the quota of teams in those competitions lesser will not help in tapping into that potential.

Having said this, there is a delicate balance i think that has to be maintained. Flooding the WC with weak teams will only lower the quality and in that case even the weaker teams will get little out of it. But i think right now its reached a decent balance, as much as some games are boring and are at a lower level, they are balanced by the higher level of football played in the better games and everyone gets something out of it.
 

kkck

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:oh

I agree that the quality of most other teams aren't up there with Mexico and USA... but things are changing and this should never happen, even if it's a joke. Everyone was complaining about the last world cup,saying it's the worst WC in years. I don't agree with this at all.... just because the "weaker" teams were playing good football and causing some upsets.

Don't bash concacaf again :pwnge
I don't think it was the weak teams showing a significant improvement as much as it was the supposed good teams sucking ass... Italy won the world cup before the last one and now they barely won a game... France won the 98 world cup and had a good run in 2006 but now they got their asses kicked in a fairly humiliating way. England got its ass handed to them and overall their game was poor and disorganized. Brazil won a few games but were far from their characteristic jugo bonito and the second things got rough they fell like a card castle in a hurricane (and that is an understatement). It's not like the supposedly good teams lost while playing great football, they lost while playing HORRIBLY and POORLY. I don't think the weak teams improved at all honestly...


and yeah, concacav is a tad hard to take seriously overall..... Can't blame them though, too many too small countries are unlikely to be capable of forming good teams. Even countries with practically hundreds of options (such as Brazil) have trouble putting up a team that works.
 

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I will agree with you on France and probably Italy, because France had their problems on and off the field. Italy probably played horrible because of their choice of players. It was an old team and the younger players should have gotten a chance. England hasn't been impressive in football in a very long time even with the quality of players they have. It's a shame that they have such good players, but can't win anything. I agree with you on Brazil also, they weren't the Brazil everyone expected to see. I don't agree that the weaker teams didn't improve at all. Teams like Uruguay, Japan and Ghana played good games and certainly improved. Although I don't want to admit it, USA has also improved over the years.

Hopefully in years to come Concacaf will make an impact in WC.
 

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Uruguays has always been decent, I don't think they have actually improved significantly... They just did their job IMO. Japan has improved quite a bit though, I did not expect them to do so well. Not sure if Ghana has actually improved significantly either, I was under the impression they were along the lines of the more decent African teams. USA has improved too although I don't think they are above the South American Average. To their credit they have an incredibly well organized football though, the team works very well. If they only had some bigger names it would be a team to watch out for.

On another note, I didn't say teams didn't improve, just that the poor performances of supposedly important teams were more more significant here.


Messi is no leader off the field. For a national team, that's a big problem. Plus, if argentina continue to play him as a true 10 , it will never work. Messi is more a winger than a 10.

Plus, there is no Inesta/Xavi in argentina.

Edit: I hope the Golden Bal will be for inesta this year. If it was NBA, I would say that the guy is clutch.
I agree, messi is no true 10.... I guess people just want to see him as the second coming of maradona. That said, in barca messi is generally given considerable freedom regarding his position and it is not that uncommon to see him in the midfield... Even his recent goal against brazil was a play which went on from the midfield(that was not in barca though).
 
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zelllogan

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I agree the world cup must be a world event but because of that, it's extremely hard to qualify in the euro zone. Honestly , it's harder for a european team to qualify to the world cup than to reach the last-16 at the world cup.

Just look at the qualifying group Belgium was in. To qualify directly, we had to win a group with Spain, Turkey ,Ex-Yugoslavia & two other teams. So basically, from the start, we know that the direct qualification ticket is going to Spain. And the team reaching second place still had a home & return game against Portugal ...
So, it's a little frustrating for us when we see New Zealand & North Korea & Honduras being there ...

So yeah, I confirm concacaf zone is a big joke. Oceanic zone is a big joke. Asian zone is a joke. African zone is a joke.

But there is no other solution than those zones if you want to avoid world cup with only European & SouthAmerican teams.

Conclusions: Zones are Needed Jokes for a world event. But because of that, the 32 teams at the world cup are not the 32 best teams.
 
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kakashi919

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Oh... So basically what you're saying is, that only Europe and South America matter then? Sorry, I can't agree with that. Asia a joke? Africa a joke? I would never agree with that.
 

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I'm talking about the zones. In each zone, there are some decent teams but the rest is rubbish. It's too easy to qualify for Japan, Cameroun, Australia, US, Mexico,... Again, just look what an european team must do to qualify. We (Belgium) had to beat the future world cup winner in a 10-games championship with Turkey and others to qualify directly ... What was needed for New Zealand to qualify ?
 
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kakashi919

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I agree with US and Mexico always making it easy, but the rest aren't as easy as you think. Sure Europe has it really hard, but it's all the same. If you wanna qualify, then play better football and win. What you're saying sounds like you want easier teams to play against so you can qualify. We only made it to WC once ever... we're not happy with that, but we don't play good enough football to qualify.

Anyway I'm gonna go sleep...
 

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Yea, sorry to go back to the WC bids thing. But this made me laugh very hard.

2018 - The timeline

How Sepp's big decision was made easier:
1) Leaked US cable describes Russia as "a rampantly corrupt, autocratic kleptocracy" run by a leader who has "amassed a massive secret fortune" by running a "mafia state" based on "personal enrichment, protection for gangsters, extortion and kickbacks, suitcases full of money, a parallel tax system and bribery estimated at $300bn a year".
2) Sepp: "Congratulations to Russia! Clearly, I am a satisfied man."

The highlights

Highlights from the last three months as Sepp set about shaping his legacy ("I'm working to make football a school of life, bringing hope, bringing emotions!"):

• Best individual performance: Executive Committee member Amos Adamu – caught in the bribery sting four months after telling colleagues facing separate fraud charges how they should behave. "The public sees every football administrator as corrupt, and I cannot explain why it is so. We must always be transparent to prove them wrong!"

• Runner-up: Former ExCo member Ismael Bhamjee – caught in the same sting, four years after his first one: exposed in 2006 for touting World Cup tickets at three times face value to supplement his £270 daily Fifa expenses. "I got myself in a mess," Bhamjee said at the time. "This was out of character."

• Best award: Former ExCo member Viacheslav Koloskov – travelling to Asunción in October to lobby current ExCo member Nicolás Léoz for Russia's bid. Léoz (accused by Panorama of taking £450k in bribes) honoured Koloskov (who received an unauthorised £65k payment from Sepp in 2002) with an award for "services to football and its principles".

• Best analysis: also from Koloskov – greeting the publication of the bids' expensive technical reports in November: "I know from my own experience that ExCo members work with little information. The inspection reports are enormous, so no one reads them."

• Best timing: October – Russia's sports minister Vitaly Mutko attacks the British press for "obsessive" analysis of Russia's racism record. Also that month: Russian football agent Vladimir Abramov gives an interview to Sport.ru about how Nigerians ruin Russian cities with "their drugs, and ultimately, their Aids". Abramov: "Teams shouldn't have more than one dark-skinned footballer. When there's more than one they are aggressive"; plus: "I am very respectful towards blacks, but Russia isn't ready for them." FIfa's view: "Racism will not be taken into account in the bidding process … It is not an operation matter".

• Best outrage: Mutko again, on why attention from the English press left him exasperated. "No matter what we say we are portrayed by them as a hotbed of corruption. It is not true." Later that week: Russian authorities launch a criminal investigation into alleged fraud at Mutko's ministry, including Mutko's own expenses claim for 97 breakfasts eaten during a 20-day trip to Vancouver.

• Best defenders: Fifa ExCo members on the "slanders" against Sepp's process:

1) Jérôme Valcke (sacked in 2006 for "lying repeatedly" to potential sponsors and reappointed by Sepp in 2007): "We have done everything we can to make sure this process is fair and transparent."
2) Chuck Blazer (called a liar "without credibility" by a US judge in 2006): "You can't say the system is bad just because one newspaper created a scam, a trap."
3) Jack Warner (totally clean): "We preach equity… we live by our principle of fair play!"
4) Plus: Angel María Villar Llona – making an epic address to colleagues in Zurich: "I love Fifa dearly but those I love the most are my colleagues in the ExCo. Recently we have been criticised by certain media, but unfortunately for them, Fifa is a clean institution. We have heard enough slander. This process is clean – whatever they say!"

• Proudest media campaign: The Sun, writing an open letter to Sepp on the eve of voting, attacking Panorama's "sabotage" of England's bid. "Today The Sun makes this plea to Mr Blatter and Fifa: don't be put off by the BBC's rehashing of ancient history. Despite BBC muckraking, The Sun trusts Fifa to put football first." (3 Dec, The Sun: "FIXED! FIFA BUNGS RUSSIA THE WORLD CUP … Calls for corruption probe …")

• Plus: the best single assessment of why England lost – seven weeks before the vote: former ExCo member Ahongalu Fusimalohi, also caught in the Sunday Times sting, warning that England must offer bribes. "England don't strike deals. It's sad but it's true." Fusimalohi explained: "It is corrupt – but only if you get caught."

Clean break: moving on

Next for Sepp after a tough few months: a chance for some clean PR in the build-up to Brazil 2014. Overseeing the tournament: Fifa ExCo member Ricardo Teixeria – due in court this week in Rio over alleged money laundering, tax evasion and "other economic crimes". Teixeria, who denies wrongdoing, was due in court last week, but secured a postponement so he could vote in Zurich.

And finally: why England really lost

The Daily Mail on why England's bid failed: "Was it the video that cost us?" The Mail says the film shown during England's bid presentation in Zurich was "un-English", too "multi-cultural" and relied on "a range of ethnically diverse figures".
(Online comments on the story from Mail readers: • "It makes me sick when we have this 'multicultural' rubbish rubbed in our faces" • "This country is dying" • "You couldn't make it up, we Brits have to put up with this nonsense every day" • "Fools! Multi cultural idiots!!!" • "Well done Daily Mail for having the courage to speak up" • plus: "If only Diana were here to see what this nation has become.")
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/dec/05/fifa
 

predsfan

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I'm talking about the zones. In each zone, there are some decent teams but the rest is rubbish. It's too easy to qualify for Japan, Cameroun, Australia, US, Mexico,... Again, just look what an european team must do to qualify. We (Belgium) had to beat the future world cup winner in a 10-games championship with Turkey and others to qualify directly ... What was needed for New Zealand to qualify ?
If I recall correctly, Mexico didn't have such an easy time qualifying this year. It was up in the air until they beat the U.S. in Mexico City, then they kind of hit their stride.

Honduras and Costa Rica are decent teams, but yeah for the most part CONCACAF isn't the hardest region, but that is reflected in the fact that we only get 3 (possibly 4) teams in the WC. So I don't really see the problem.

As for the U.S. not getting the '22, can't say I'm shocked. It just sucks to live in North America where there are only 3 possible options for hosting the WC right now and none of them are new horizons type places such as Qatar . Mexico probably wouldn't have a chance b/c of the drug wars and what not and Canada might be the one country that cares less about soccer than the U.S. (I have no facts to back this up, so Canadians feel free to correct me :p). So yeah, North American's are kind of screwed by getting rid of the region changing rule. 2018, the year they abolished it, was our turn, I think :darn.

Oh, and for those of you not happy with FIFA (Americans, English, Australians, etc...) this video always helps cheer me up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu7i5CJq3mg
 

kkck

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^Well, Concacaf is far less competitive as a whole than other areas but that does not mean USA and Mexico have an easy time. Having a measly 3 spaces (not a single more should be given, it is almost a sure thing they would be taking the place of a better team) puts a lot of pressure on the teams. The difference between USA and Mexico (and perhaps Costa Rica) from the rest of the teams is clear however it is entirely possible for some other team to rise to the challenge(only a few of them have a chance in hell though)....

As for Canada, they probably do care for football less than USA. They are too much into Hockey.... How much does Australia care for football though? I have seen their team in the WC but from my understanding the country at large is largely indiferent to the sport.
 

thsv

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^Well, in turn there were 5 South American teams in the rounds of 16 and there was 1 South American Team in each round of the Quarter finals. All I am saying is that On average South American Teams are far better than African, Asian and Middle eastern Teams. Heck, Brazil and Argentina(without maradona) generally speak for themselves. Uruguay and Paraguay are also excellent and did a pretty good good during the last world cup. And below them Colombia, Ecuador and Chile are pretty good and surprisingly they are getting better each year. Lets face it, did we need a North Korea in the world cup? Of course not, they were awful for the most part (I was surprised they gave Brazil so much trouble though). And how about Algeria and Nigeria? Pretty bad performances if I recall. Cote d Ivore and Cameroon are pretty good but from there the level decreases quite fast IMO. South Africa did so poorly it seemed as if they had no business in their own world cup. There are in fact pretty good teams in Africa that do bring something to the world cup however the average is pretty low, at least IMO. The world cup would have more exciting matches if the South American number of teams allowed is maintained(contrary to their original intention of decreasing the number of teams allowed).
I'm sorry I got a bit emotional there. Sure South American sides are generally better than their Asian and African counterparts. But they've had a 50 year head start on most of them. We are talking about a WC qualifying group where all but one of its members has qualified for a world cup at some point in history. And three of them have won it at some point. That experience is invaluable.
About African team, Oceanic teams, Asian teams, ... FIFA wants the world cup to be a world event. If it was only about the best teams, only South-American & European teams would be at the world cup. Honestly, the best asian team & the best african team & the best oceanic team would have the worst trouble to even qualify if they were in the Euro Zone.

The concacaf zone is also a joke. Just give US & Mexico a free qualifying ticket. It would be the same.
And here is the problem with European thinking when it comes to the world cup and even European football. FIFA's remit is to promote football everywhere. You might be two young to remember the old 24 team world cups. Where one win and two defeats could get you into the second round. Dominated by European teams whilst Africa and Asia had 4 places between them. And yet all three confederations are about the same size members wise.
EDIT: and about GHANA doing a good world cup, give me a break. Serbia was absolutely awful in the first game. In the second game, they face the weak Australia & it's a draw. They lost to Germany. After that, they win just one game against the US. And It's not like US have such a scary team ... (Seriously, Belgium would already be a big challenge for US in a soccer game & we didn't qualify ...)
You mock both countries but they did what was asked of them. They qualified.

I'm talking about the zones. In each zone, there are some decent teams but the rest is rubbish. It's too easy to qualify for Japan, Cameroun, Australia, US, Mexico,... Again, just look what an european team must do to qualify. We (Belgium) had to beat the future world cup winner in a 10-games championship with Turkey and others to qualify directly ... What was needed for New Zealand to qualify ?
It's only recently that Japan started qualifying. France 98 was their first time. And as Germany 06 proved to us the usual suspects from Africa can fail to get to the finals. Both Cameroon and Nigeria stayed at home that year. And if Gabon hadn't postponed their home game against Cameroon because they were mourning the death of their president I doubt they'd have made it this year either.
 

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Well, the 50 year head start is not a good argument in favor of africa, asia or the middle east. Sure it is the world cup and all areas should get a degree of representation but that is something in itself dangerous. Given the scale of the event, it makes sense for it to host the best of the best teams. Anything less would be unworthy of the event and to some point insulting to the fans. I just think it is in the benefit of the event and fans that the number of teams of an area allowed to participate in the world cup should depend heavily on the level of the place. Basically, it has to be earned. I am not saying Africa should NEVER get more chances to get more teams in but rather they should get the chance when they improve (significantly) so as to not decrease the overall quality of the cup. Surely it would take a lot of time for them to improve and even more to catch up but once they do it will make sense for those teams to be there.
 

thsv

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Well, the 50 year head start is not a good argument in favor of africa, asia or the middle east. Sure it is the world cup and all areas should get a degree of representation but that is something in itself dangerous. Given the scale of the event, it makes sense for it to host the best of the best teams. Anything less would be unworthy of the event and to some point insulting to the fans. I just think it is in the benefit of the event and fans that the number of teams of an area allowed to participate in the world cup should depend heavily on the level of the place. Basically, it has to be earned. I am not saying Africa should NEVER get more chances to get more teams in but rather they should get the chance when they improve (significantly) so as to not decrease the overall quality of the cup. Surely it would take a lot of time for them to improve and even more to catch up but once they do it will make sense for those teams to be there.
Two points
1) The South American group has ten members. Any more places would mean more than half their zone would qualify.
2) We don't want this going the way of Rugby. Outside of Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, England, France and possibly Wales and Ireland there is FA in the way of competition. Argentina have come along recently but only because of a drop of quality from the european teams. Something else you need to remember is that the so called best teams go through slumps. Before 2002 Portugal had only qualified for two world cups, 1966 and 1986. So if we applied a 'host the best teams' rule how would the Portugal that emerged after Euro 96 ever got into any competitions? The Netherlands before 1974? Two world cups. 1934 and 1938. And after 1978 they missed the next two. Limiting numbers is the way we seperate the wheat from the chaff. If a so called better side can't even be bothered to get their act together long enough to qualify why should they get to the final.

And referring to my earlier comment about FIFA spreading the world game, there was a time when FIFA where quite happy for Asia and Africa to fight it out for one place whilst South America and Europe got 80% of the rest. So when certain media outlets talk about corruption with the current FIFA setup, it's not like the previous administration before 1974 was perfect. Stanley Rous was quite happy for Apartheid South Africa to be a member.
 

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You make it sound as if I said individual teams should be qualified to the cup without playing or something of the sort lol. I am not saying Fifa should evaluate teams themselves and make the world cup based on that..... I just think particular areas should be given opportunities based on the overall level of the area so as to ensure the best possible teams from each area make it through. It is true South America has only 9 countries but would it make sense to take spots from them to Asian or african teams? God no, it would be absurd. During the last South American classification Argentina was Fourth and Uruguay was fifth. Would it have made sense for Uruguay to lose his place so that some Asian or African team who would evidently have nowhere near the level of Uruguay? It makes no sense....
 

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Wait a minute... am I dreaming or did Inter just take a goal from Mazembe? AHAHAHHAHAHA
 
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