The Hidden Floor

[kkck]

Caution, please avoid spoilers.

The point of this thread is to speculate on what comes next regarding the hell train. We just saw urek take of the anklet limited his power which means things are about to get pretty serious against hell joe. At least it should be safe to say that if enryu can defeat an administrator, then urek should be able to deal with a cheap copy of one with relative ease. With that in mind the hell train arc is about to come to a close. According to SIU there is a rumor that after the 43rd floor there is a hidden floor. Any clues as to what that might be about? With that in mind it follows that we will soon see the secret floor and whatnot.

Any clues as to what the gang might find there? The hell train is supposed to be made for irregulars to go through revolution and find their true selves. However a secret floor is still actually a gigantic deal. SIU mentioned that seemingly casually but the importance of this has been vastly understated. A. SECRET. FLOOR. I am not even sure of how to state how big a deal this is. I mean, the place likely has its own administrator. Given the context zahard and his cronies probably made it there eons ago. And there could be a test to take.

Crackpot theory time! One thing I have found weird is the bit about the 134th and 135th floors. Overall we have conflicting information from SIU. On one hand there was information that high rankers could go to the floor and take the test. But we also just found out that the door to the 135th floor has been closed and the key was, somewhat more literally than figuratively, thrown away, Perhaps the ambiguity regarding this is kinda the result of the 10 families going and sealing off a floor for some reason?

Now, the hell train is difficult for normal d rank regulars to travel however it does seem like there are small groups that make it over time. With that in mind the secret floor shouldn't be that much of a secret overall... Perhaps the floor is normally only accessible to irregulars to begin with? Since it seems to be a removed place it kinda makes sense it would be accesible only to irregulars. And bam would be rather crucial here since he is the only one that has ridden the train recently that could request a test from the administrator.

 

[Ripcord]

No dude. The 43rd floor is the hidden floor. Sorry to burst your bubble but we know the hell train stops here (said it ends on the 43rd floor). Plus we already know from Urek and some others that the FOD was forbidden to go to. Considering that we know a princess was trapped on the hidden floor.... that's 3 pieces of evidence that point to it being the FOD.

 

[kkck]

No dude. The 43rd floor is the hidden floor. Sorry to burst your bubble but we know the hell train stops here (said it ends on the 43rd floor). Plus we already know from Urek and some others that the FOD was forbidden to go to. Considering that we know a princess was trapped on the hidden floor.... that's 3 pieces of evidence that point to it being the FOD.

This makes no sense at all. If anything because there is absolutely nothing hidden about the 43rd floor. It is hard to get there but the existence of a floor with a dead administrator is well known through the tower at large. Forbidden is in no form or context hidden. And we have no reason to think there is a trapped princess at the floor of death either. We saw garam but she is not trapped at all. And the hidden floor was mentioned by SIU himself. And the route the hell train has is to begin with kinda questionable considering it takes people from the 35th to the 43rd floor but at the same time it only allows you to advance 6 floors (according to SIU). You need to read the wiki to check out all the extra information SIU has given.

 

[Brian Taboada]

The hidden floor cant be the Floor of Death because it is not hidden. Regulars just skip it. There is also some sleeping beautiful woman there. I am guessing that may be Enne. Koon Hachuling (Wolhaiksong) claims to have been there. I doubt when everyone else refers to the 43rd floor as the FOD, that he would refer to it differently.

 

[syx]

No dude. The 43rd floor is the hidden floor. Sorry to burst your bubble but we know the hell train stops here (said it ends on the 43rd floor). Plus we already know from Urek and some others that the FOD was forbidden to go to. Considering that we know a princess was trapped on the hidden floor.... that's 3 pieces of evidence that point to it being the FOD.

Chapter 110/190:
Hwa Ryun: It's an express train that allows you to zip up from 35 Floor to 43 Floor. [...] If you can stay alive, you can reach the top's "Hidden Floor".

Chapter 108/188:
Quant: But the final destination was...
Hachuling: The Hidden "Floor".

I only reread a couple of chapters and neither Hachuling nor Hwa Ryun refer to the 43F as the Hidden Floor. What's more, both of them use quotation marks for the Hidden Floor, like it's more of an metaphor than an actual floor. If the Hidden Floor is indeed the 43F, then people would have said this the same way they said that the 43F is also called the FOD.

 

[Ripcord]

I'm not the only one that thinks this. All the official wikis post the 43rd floor as the hidden floor as the only way to get to it is to survive the Hell Train.

http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/Hell_Express

I'm not saying they're right but considering that the guardian is dead and the "floor" is now it's corpse, then I'd put it in quotations too. There is a lot unusual about the FOD that makes it not qualify as a regular floor anymore.

Sorry but you will be disappointed when there is no other hidden floor.

 

[Demonspeed]

The 43rd Floor can't be the hidden one. Everyone knows about it, countless people live there too.I doubt there is only one hidden floor actually. After the fight and the aftermath they will keep climbing as usual.

 

[kkck]

I'm not the only one that thinks this. All the official wikis post the 43rd floor as the hidden floor as the only way to get to it is to survive the Hell Train.

http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/Hell_Express

I'm not saying they're right but considering that the guardian is dead and the "floor" is now it's corpse, then I'd put it in quotations too. There is a lot unusual about the FOD that makes it not qualify as a regular floor anymore.

Sorry but you will be disappointed when there is no other hidden floor.

That doesn't refer to the 43rd floor as the hidden floor. And even if it did it is not what the series has said so far. Besides, the hell train is supposed to allow you to climb six floors so the final destination can't be floor 43 anyways (you start at 35 after al). In whatever scenario, there is something odd about the hell train's route.

 

[syx]

The Hell Express wiki entry doesn't say anything about the 43F being the Hidden Floor.

The Hell Express is an experimental express train that enables passengers to get from the 35th Floor to the 43rd Floor quickly. Due to its extremely high difficulty, it's nearly impossible to survive until the end. The final destination of the Hell Express is said to be the Tower's "Hidden Floor" (or "Secret Floor").

Hachuling has been to the Hidden Floor, although he doesn't reveal what's there.

Wiki entry 43rd Floor:

The Forty-Third Floor, also known as the Floor of Death, is a notorious point in the Tower.

There is not a single mention of a Hidden Floor in the complete 43F wiki entry.

 

[Ripcord]

You guys need to get your eyes checked.

" The final destination of the Hell Express is said to be the Tower's "Hidden Floor" (or "Secret Floor").[3][2]"

Their references are taken directly from the Manwah so you guys definitely missed something. FOD is the final destination of the Hell Train and is the hidden floor because it is otherwise hidden from the Regulars climbing the tower.

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2017, Original Post Date: May 24, 2017 ---

I suppose there is some possibility that there is a floor between 43 and 44 based on the Manwah references but that seems unlikely to me given the other evidence.

 

[kkck]

That is not the same as the 43rd floor being the final destination of the hell train though. SIU has basically confirmed the hell train allows you to climb 6 floors, not 8 and the 43rd floor is basically off limits in general. With that in mind, the hell train definitely does not take you to the 44th floor, it does not get that far. Not to mention that it is unquestionable manwha fact that the hidden floor is in no form or context secret. It is one of the most infamous locations in the tower, pretty much the most extreme opposite of hidden. Enryu killing the 43rd floor administrator is a well known historical fact in the tower.

With that in mind, after the hell train is done with odds are that the gang would be left at an earlier floor. Since the train takes you 6 floors up that would be floor 41. Perhaps the reason it takes you to floor 41 at the end rather than 42 is the stop it makes at the secret floor which would have to be located between floor 42 and 41. The implication would be that when it returns the train doesn't allow you to get off at floor 42 otherwise the train would allow you to climb 7 and not 6 floors.

 

[Ripcord]

I wasn't saying it goes to the 44th floor. Since the train already went to the 43rd either this is the last stop or there is a floor between 43 and 44. It would be nonsensical to have the train now go backwards to 41 or 42.

And just because something is infamous (Enryu killing the guardian) doesn't mean it isn't hidden. I mean there are other rumors about the hidden floor, right? (e.g. beautiful girl there).

Another example of a famous place that no one could find: Myobokuzan. It existed and people tried to get to the Toad Sage but it was really hard to find. But it was still famous. You could also say that Emily is the same. She's pretty damn famous and yet to most of the tower's residents she's hidden.

Hidden means you can't get to it, meaning the normal path is closed. And we already know that the Regulars are unable to get to the 43rd floor without using the Hell Train because Jahad sealed the path to it.

 

[Brian Taboada]

In Ep. 2-111 Ms Ehwa is studying the hell train and its destinations. There it is said "D-Class Express... a test train that takes you from the 35th floor to the 43rd floor. Because of the extreme difficulty, it is also called "THE HELL TRAIN". There;s even a rumor that it will take you to the "SECRET FLOOR" if you survive to the end."

Clearly the secret floor rumor cant be the 43rd floor according to this text.

 

[Ripcord]

Yes it's specifically that line that opens the possibility of there being a floor between 43 and 44.

Still the fact that 43 has a princess who was hidden along with the fact that the 43rd floor is sealed from the normal path supports that 43 INNER tower is the hidden floor. We do know that normally Regulars go through the middle area of the 43rd floor to avoid the inner area so the Hell Train could still stop at the 43rd floor middle area as it's last stop and yet the inner area would be considered the hidden floor.

 

[kkck]

I wasn't saying it goes to the 44th floor. Since the train already went to the 43rd either this is the last stop or there is a floor between 43 and 44. It would be nonsensical to have the train now go backwards to 41 or 42.

And just because something is infamous (Enryu killing the guardian) doesn't mean it isn't hidden. I mean there are other rumors about the hidden floor, right? (e.g. beautiful girl there).

Another example of a famous place that no one could find: Myobokuzan. It existed and people tried to get to the Toad Sage but it was really hard to find. But it was still famous. You could also say that Emily is the same. She's pretty damn famous and yet to most of the tower's residents she's hidden.

Hidden means you can't get to it, meaning the normal path is closed. And we already know that the Regulars are unable to get to the 43rd floor without using the Hell Train because Jahad sealed the path to it.

Well, it is a train. And it does have to return at some point, it's not like it stays forever at floor 43 after this. If it is a train then it either goes in a cicle around those stations or it just goes back and forth along the route indefinitely. Basically the options would be "35 -> 36 -> 37 -->38 -> 39 -> 40 ->41 -> 42 -> 43 -> 35" or "35 -> 36 -> 37 -->38 -> 39 -> 40 ->41 -> 42 -> 43 -> 42 -> 41.....". In that sense, it wouldn't be nonsensical for the train to go backwards, it is literally one of the two only plausible alternatives. Unless it turns out the train ceases to exist altogether after its last stop and starts existing again the next time it departs. And it is not nonsensical in that it is an unquestionable fact so far that the train only takes you 6 floors ahead and not 8 (according to siu anyways).

In context the myobokuzan thing doesn't compare to this. Myobukusan was a place which people didn't know how to get to. They didn't know where it was. In turn literally everyone with less than basic math skills knows where the 43rd floor is : literally between the 42nd and 44th floor. What you are suggesting here is basically that a well known and infamous place whose location is well known to literally anyone with the ability to count is the hidden floor. Hidden means something is in an unknown location, that it is concealed. The 43rd floor does not match either of those. In context hidden could also be secret but there is nothing secret about the place either.

 

[Ripcord]

Your argument doesn't make any sense. If I take a train from New York to Boston they're going to say Boston is the last stop then turn around and go back to NY. Even if I stay on it turn around in Boston and get off in Mystic, Connecticut that doesn't change the fact that Boston was the "last stop" for the train. It doesn't matter if it goes back. They say if you can survive on it you make it to the hidden floor.... we have already passed 41 and 42.... so there is no reason to go back to them.

As to Myobokuzan not being the same thing, this is precisely what I mean. It was difficult to find the path to get there. Likewise it is difficult to find the path to get to the 43rd inner tower. Jahad has closed the normal path. Even if you know that 43 is between 42 and 44 you still might not know the path you need to take, not to mention that Regulars are sent from the inner tower of 42 on up through the middle tower of 43. We don't know how Regulars really get from floor to floor. As such Regulars are forced to go through the middle tower because the path through the 43rd inner tower is hidden from them.

We already know the train stops at the middle and inner tower and since Regulars can access the 43rd middle tower it makes sense that the train would stop there. But we already know that the train is the only way for Regulars to get to the 43rd inner tower (not to mention you have to be willing to jump into the corpse of the administrator and navigate your way to the inner parts of it). [Edit: I added Regulars above because... Rankers seem to be able to make it here (Urek) without the train]. Seems pretty hard to get to, a.k.a. hidden, to me.

 

[kkck]

Your argument doesn't make any sense. If I take a train from New York to Boston they're going to say Boston is the last stop then turn around and go back to NY. Even if I stay on it turn around in Boston and get off in Mystic, Connecticut that doesn't change the fact that Boston was the "last stop" for the train. It doesn't matter if it goes back. They say if you can survive on it you make it to the hidden floor.... we have already passed 41 and 42.... so there is no reason to go back to them.

As to Myobokuzan not being the same thing, this is precisely what I mean. It was difficult to find the path to get there. Likewise it is difficult to find the path to get to the 43rd inner tower. Jahad has closed the normal path. Even if you know that 43 is between 42 and 44 you still might not know the path you need to take, not to mention that Regulars are sent from the inner tower of 42 on up through the middle tower of 43. We don't know how Regulars really get from floor to floor. As such Regulars are forced to go through the middle tower because the path through the 43rd inner tower is hidden from them.

We already know the train stops at the middle and inner tower and since Regulars can access the 43rd middle tower it makes sense that the train would stop there. But we already know that the train is the only way for Regulars to get to the 43rd inner tower (not to mention you have to be willing to jump into the corpse of the administrator and navigate your way to the inner parts of it). [Edit: I added Regulars above because... Rankers seem to be able to make it here (Urek) without the train]. Seems pretty hard to get to, a.k.a. hidden, to me.

What I am saying makes perfect sense. In the series it has been said that 1: the train lets you do 6 floors at once and 2: it's route goes from floor 35 to floor 43. However SIU himself has said that both of this things are correct and that he would eventually explain it. However if the train lets you do 6 floors then naturally at the end you'd be left at floor 41. As for reason for going back, there is plenty. As far as we know they would have to get on the hell train to get back, if only to get to the hidden floor. Even if they opt out of that and leave with urek, what would people who do not have such company do once they reach the 43rd floor? Advancing to the 44th floor is not an option. So naturally they would have to ride the train to wherever it stops next. Which would naturally be a station we have already seen. And if the hell train allows you to advance 6 floors it makes sense people would get a chance to get off at floor 41.

That still doesn't make the comparison relevant. Myoboku hasn't had it's door shut and the key thrown out after the place was nuked. In turn that is more or less what happened with the hell floor. There is no reasonable form in which the floor of death is actually hidden. It's asinine to suggest that because it is hard to get to it it is hidden. Under that logic virtually every floor in the tower is hidden because the tests to get to each are hard as well. Which of course makes the whole thing moot. With the information we have it makes sense that "hidden" in this case means literally "hidden". As in, having an actually unknown location and being actually hidden. Not merely "being hard to get to". That's literally everywhere in the tower without exceptions.

 

[Spirit]

You guys need to get your eyes checked.

" The final destination of the Hell Express is said to be the Tower's "Hidden Floor" (or "Secret Floor").[3][2]"

Their references are taken directly from the Manwah so you guys definitely missed something. FOD is the final destination of the Hell Train and is the hidden floor because it is otherwise hidden from the Regulars climbing the tower.

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2017, Original Post Date: May 24, 2017 ---

I suppose there is some possibility that there is a floor between 43 and 44 based on the Manwah references but that seems unlikely to me given the other evidence.

But the Hell Train didn't stop at the FoD. The crew had to bail out and jump down themselves. The train continued. I find it more than likely that the Hidden Floor is a secret subdivision of the FoD itself, or a void like world between the floors.

 

[Ripcord]

What I am saying makes perfect sense. In the series it has been said that 1: the train lets you do 6 floors at once and 2: it's route goes from floor 35 to floor 43. However SIU himself has said that both of this things are correct and that he would eventually explain it. However if the train lets you do 6 floors then naturally at the end you'd be left at floor 41. As for reason for going back, there is plenty. As far as we know they would have to get on the hell train to get back, if only to get to the hidden floor. Even if they opt out of that and leave with urek, what would people who do not have such company do once they reach the 43rd floor? Advancing to the 44th floor is not an option. So naturally they would have to ride the train to wherever it stops next. Which would naturally be a station we have already seen. And if the hell train allows you to advance 6 floors it makes sense people would get a chance to get off at floor 41.

That still doesn't make the comparison relevant. Myoboku hasn't had it's door shut and the key thrown out after the place was nuked. In turn that is more or less what happened with the hell floor. There is no reasonable form in which the floor of death is actually hidden. It's asinine to suggest that because it is hard to get to it it is hidden. Under that logic virtually every floor in the tower is hidden because the tests to get to each are hard as well. Which of course makes the whole thing moot. With the information we have it makes sense that "hidden" in this case means literally "hidden". As in, having an actually unknown location and being actually hidden. Not merely "being hard to get to". That's literally everywhere in the tower without exceptions.

My assertion about Myobokuzan is correct. The fact that Regulars need to take tests means that the path is known to them. Knowing the path and being able to do it are different things. And what do you know about not getting to Myobokuzan. Precedence in Naruto is that there are barriers set up around the important places and perhaps it had one to help keep it hidden just like Konoha had its own protective barriers.

As to your math, I don't recall SIU saying it only goes 6 floors but according to the Wiki there are stations on the 35th, 37th, 39th, 40th, 42nd, and 43rd. This is access to six floors even though the differential between the first and last is 8. It's possible this solves the math puzzle or it's possible that there was no reason to show the other floors. Considering though that express trains skip over stations in real life I could see this express skipping some floors (though the Regulars on the train still have to take the relevant tests).

Even so to me the teams are climbing up the tower. At most I could see them going back to 42.... but they've already been there. And we already know that 41 is a floor Regulars can take a normal path through the inner tower. Only the 43rd floor so far has special requirements to get onto it (aside from passing tests). Just because you can even jump into the shinsu doesn't mean you will make it to the actual FOD.

And regarding the idea about the train not stopping... if you look at the panels in the Manwah it is literally not moving. The train is stationary over the landscape long enough for all the Regulars to jump into the same place in the shinsu below. Since it is not moving that is the very definition of "stopped."

Will the train be there when they "get out" I have no idea but no one said the train had to be parked for a long period of time.

 

[Spirit]

My assertion about Myobokuzan is correct. The fact that Regulars need to take tests means that the path is known to them. Knowing the path and being able to do it are different things. And what do you know about not getting to Myobokuzan. Precedence in Naruto is that there are barriers set up around the important places and perhaps it had one to help keep it hidden just like Konoha had its own protective barriers.

As to your math, I don't recall SIU saying it only goes 6 floors but according to the Wiki there are stations on the 35th, 37th, 39th, 40th, 42nd, and 43rd. This is access to six floors even though the differential between the first and last is 8. It's possible this solves the math puzzle or it's possible that there was no reason to show the other floors. Considering though that express trains skip over stations in real life I could see this express skipping some floors (though the Regulars on the train still have to take the relevant tests).

Even so to me the teams are climbing up the tower. At most I could see them going back to 42.... but they've already been there. And we already know that 41 is a floor Regulars can take a normal path through the inner tower. Only the 43rd floor so far has special requirements to get onto it (aside from passing tests). Just because you can even jump into the shinsu doesn't mean you will make it to the actual FOD.

And regarding the idea about the train not stopping... if you look at the panels in the Manwah it is literally not moving. The train is stationary over the landscape long enough for all the Regulars to jump into the same place in the shinsu below. Since it is not moving that is the very definition of "stopped."

Will the train be there when they "get out" I have no idea but no one said the train had to be parked for a long period of time.

Noted. But the fact is that the FoD wasn't the trains destination. It stops at the floor above.