Match The King versus the Wild Prince

[Jyten]

Kin-chan versus Atobe!

Now, I used to think that Atobe has World of Ice and Kin-chan doesn't have Zone so Atobe > Kinchan. However, I'm a bit less inclined to think that WoI is unstoppable given the nature of WoI.

For example, I think Sanada's In will beat WoI after much thought. After all, Sanada's In makes him extremely unpredictable. Kin-chan already is innately extremely unpredictable. WoI is all about reading your opponent. Does In makes that reading impossible?

So, can Atobe see Kin-chan's dead angles? Could Kin-chan deal with having his dead angles seen? I just don't think WoI is that unstoppable. It just can't be. I mean isn't the only reason WoI didn't work on Yuki was because Echizen couldn't read him?

So, to me if Atobe can't see Kin-chan's dead angles accurately. The match will be terribly long but Kin-chan will win. I see him having better stamina than Atobe.

Scenario 1: Atobe can't see Kin-chan's dead angles.
Scenario 2: Atobe can see Kin-chan's dead angles.

Scenario 1: Kin-chan (7-6) (100-98)
Scenario 2: Atobe (6-0)

Basically, I <3 debating match ups. So, I'll make them as my mind allows or Atobe or Sai tell me to stop. We need an arena like the other forums on the message boards.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I think Atobe's stamina is better than Kintarou's. I mean, this is a guy who went through a 200 point tie-break, while we've never seen any stamina feat on that level from Kintarou. I'm also not really sure what would cause Atobe to not see his weaknesses, but even if he couldn't, I still think he could outlast him.

 

[Fayte]

Atobe, and easily.

 

[Bowser]

Kintarou's natural strength won't be enough - he's not as beastly in the manga as he is in the anime, he just about return Drive B and Kamikakushi. Atobe easily returned a Muga Blitz whilst Kintarou also did well, Atobe is a tad more skillful.

 

[Jyten]

Kintarou's natural strength won't be enough - he's not as beastly in the manga as he is in the anime, he just about return Drive B and Kamikakushi. Atobe easily returned a Muga Blitz whilst Kintarou also did well, Atobe is a tad more skillful.

Yeah, very true...stupid anime messing with me. Hmm...I'm betting though Kin-chan will get a major upgrade in Shin...maybe not to Atobe level though due to fandom.

 

[javimgol]

Kintaroh
Why?

Theory His wild nature.He's so wild that I consider him unpredictable. That also would make him impossible to read, so Ice World and Insight won´t affect him.

Logic Being logical, he tied VS an even better version of Ryoma, who won VS Atobe. So an easy victory for Atobe is just stupid IMAO. He's fast and strong,and really claver in the court (he counter a lot of different moves than Ryoma sent him), so he won´t suffer VS Rondo Toward Destruction or even Tanhauser

Kintaroh is fighting with Fuji to be the most and abolsutely UNDERSTIMATED characters in this forum. Only because Yukimira (yes, the same Yukimira who absolutely RAPE Sanada and destroyed pre-PoP Ryoma) rape him in just a single rally.


For me, Kin-chan is maybe the third best player of PoT, if we don´t consider Fuji as true Pokemon evolving every match. I posted time ago that he will have the strength and speed to counter Rai; he's so wild that Pinnacle of Wisdom/In/Insight/Ice World won´t affect him, Shiraishi and Chitose considered him the best of Shiten;and thanks to hsi rivality with Ryoma, I see him as the next SuperSa..., I mean, Pinnacle of Perfection boy

 

[Bowser]

Are you serious, Fuji is underestimated? No way!

Logic Being logical, he tied VS an even better version of Ryoma, who won VS Atobe

In your logic, he tied against a Ryoma who won against Yukimura. Therefore, Kintarou can bat Yukimura - oh wait I forgot, he lost!

he counter a lot of different moves than Ryoma sent him), so he won´t suffer VS Rondo Toward Destruction or even Tanhauser

He didn't counter as much moves as Atobe had to. Plus, Atobe returned it like it was nothing, Kintarou just about returned all the shots (except Abare Dama, that was truely shown). Kintarou isn't "clever", I wouldn't put it that way, its more like his style of tennis to be able to return as much as he can, Atobe is way smarter.

Atobe: EVERYTHING has a blind spot (except for the broken Yukimura and Tezuka Zone).

So running around means you have a blind spot? He's wild, so what, he basically has the ability to run around and return as many shots as he can until he wins and not get tired - counter puncher?

Counter rai? It made a flipping hole in tezuka's racket! He didn't even used all his power to return rai, it made a hole!!! Thats just touching it!

---

WOI isn't about reading your opponent - it's about reading BLIND SPOT - making yourself unpredictable won't hide blind spots.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Yukimura has blind spots as well. He only returned WoI in the anime...Which makes no sense, if you think about it. How in the world did Echizen copy INSIGHT?

Not that WoI would work against Yukimura. Atobe would get yip'd half way through the match, and wouldn't be able to use his insight anymore.

Logic Being logical, he tied VS an even better version of Ryoma, who won VS Atobe

No. He tied vs THE EXACT SAME ECHIZEN THAT BEAT ATOBE. Echizen didn't play vs Shiten. He didn't get a match to evolve. He was on the same level as when he played Atobe.

 

[Kaoz]

No. He tied vs THE EXACT SAME ECHIZEN THAT BEAT ATOBE. Echizen didn't play vs Shiten. He didn't get a match to evolve. He was on the same level as when he played Atobe.

So, do you think Atobe and Kintarou are on the same level at the moment?

 

[javimgol]

No. He tied vs THE EXACT SAME ECHIZEN THAT BEAT ATOBE. Echizen didn't play vs Shiten. He didn't get a match to evolve. He was on the same level as when he played Atobe.

He learned Shiten's and Tachibana shots, so he was a bit better.
And obviously, the Ryoma with PoP who beat Yuki was a different Ryoma than the one who was losing 4-0 VS Yuki and the Ryoma who tied VS Kin-chan.
I just consider Ryoma and Yuki in another level. And under them,for me the third could perfectly be Tooyama Kintaroh

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

So, do you think Atobe and Kintarou are on the same level at the moment?

Same level overall, but Atobe wins in a match because WoI is broken as hell. You need plot armor to defeat it.

He learned Shiten's and Tachibana shots, so he was a bit better

Hardly. He learned new techniques, but didn't "evolve" at all. He was still the same Echizen, he just had more tricks. The entire point of the first rally between the two was showing that Atobe can return any technique, and that Echizen needed another level to beat him rather than another technique.

 

[Bowser]

So, do you think Atobe and Kintarou are on the same level at the moment?

No...not really. Just cause he drew with the exact same Echizen who beat Atobe, doesn't necessarily make them the same level.

He learned Shiten's and Tachibana shots, so he was a bit better.
And obviously, the Ryoma with PoP who beat Yuki was a different Ryoma than the one who was losing 4-0 VS Yuki and the Ryoma who tied VS Kin-chan.
I just consider Ryoma and Yuki in another level. And under them,for me the third could perfectly be Tooyama Kintaroh

Well...he didn't really "learn" those shots, it's still Muga no Kyouchi level Echizen...plus I think Atobe would've been able to return them too ...so defo in the same level as he was when he played Atobe, no questions about that :S...

 

[Jyten]

Are you serious, Fuji is underestimated? No way!


In your logic, he tied against a Ryoma who won against Yukimura. Therefore, Kintarou can bat Yukimura - oh wait I forgot, he lost!



He didn't counter as much moves as Atobe had to. Plus, Atobe returned it like it was nothing, Kintarou just about returned all the shots (except Abare Dama, that was truely shown). Kintarou isn't "clever", I wouldn't put it that way, its more like his style of tennis to be able to return as much as he can, Atobe is way smarter.

Atobe: EVERYTHING has a blind spot (except for the broken Yukimura and Tezuka Zone).

So running around means you have a blind spot? He's wild, so what, he basically has the ability to run around and return as many shots as he can until he wins and not get tired - counter puncher?

Counter rai? It made a flipping hole in tezuka's racket! He didn't even used all his power to return rai, it made a hole!!! Thats just touching it!
<hr noshade size="1">
WOI isn't about reading your opponent - it's about reading BLIND SPOT - making yourself unpredictable won't hide blind spots.

It may after all reading people and reading blind spots is about the same thing to me. After all, its them and their play style that reveals blind spots. If you don't know how they'll play then you cannot see their blind spots. Kin-chan's play to me is too abnormal for blind spot seeing to work.

However, this is PoT, I mean how the freaking heck do you see someone's blind spot??? I don't think even Fed can do that (maybe Batman.)

True, Yuki war stomped Kin-chan but I already said why and its pointless to re-hash that. It has nothing to do with Kin-chan being weak. Yuki war stomps everyone but plothax.

Was Echizen that much better after playing Atobe, maybe? I don't know for sure. I'm inclined to think no since there was no real time gap in between them like 1 day? Either way, Echizen played Atobe and didn't get warstomped (sure he had EZone but I think Kin-chan's tennis can pull of the same result) No sucking in balls but it could prevent Atobe from reading his blind spots. If so, then it should be a pretty fair fight.

As to whether or not Kin-chan can return Rondo or Tannhauser Serve. I think Kin-chan could. If Hyoshi can return Tannhauser no way Kin-chan couldn't. Rondo I don't know for sure but I'm almost positive he can.

Lastly on the stamina issue. Of course, a 200 point tie break with Mr. Broken shows that Atobe has epic level stamina but remember Kin-chan ran from Shizuoka to Tokyo which is around 100 miles?

 

[Azakcry]

Kintarou is not Ryoma, if he were, he would win, but cus he is not, he would not.

 

[Jyten]

Kintarou is not Ryoma, if he were, he would win, but cus he is not, he would not.

Plot hax does play a big part in PoT namely with Ryoma but you can use other examples in this matter.

For example, I don't think Chitose/Shiriashi/Tachinbana are that much weaker than Atobe. Of course Atobe would beat them all 100% of the time. Probably 6-4 or 6-2. Depends on how long he waits till he uses WoI. But remember Kin-chan is said to be stronger than all of them.

So, its not a stretch to say that he's closer to Atobe with out using plot hax Echizen as an example. Also, currently even with out plot hax. TZone /EZone destroys WoI. I mean WoI means nothing if you can't actually hit the blind spots.

Why the freaking heck did Atobe make a move that couldn't beat his "fated" Rival????

 

[Bowser]

I think he wanted to use insight to the fullest extent and beat his opponents more convincingly. If he could hit it past Sanada's Zan, he was sure to be able to hit it past everyone. Perhaps he might've known about it, but I guess he definately didn't expect Echizen to use Nanjiroh (or whatever, doesnt matter) Zone.

 

[Jyten]

I think he wanted to use insight to the fullest extent and beat his opponents more convincingly. If he could hit it past Sanada's Zan, he was sure to be able to hit it past everyone. Perhaps he might've known about it, but I guess he definately didn't expect Echizen to use Nanjiroh (or whatever, doesnt matter) Zone.

Possibly, I almost think TZone is better than Zan. I'm not sure...but you never know. Still, I think its nonsense. If Kabaji had fought Echizen and Tezuka fought Atobe...I both matches would've been far easier for Seigaku...where did Ryuzaki's come up with that?

 

[Bowser]

Tezuka played atobe before anyway...and plot hax

I dunno...we did have a discussion before about Zan, and what it is. Atobe and Fayte thinks its net defence, and I do too, I think its more of a position where you can spam rin and ka :L...sanada only used ka against Tezuka though but still...it took out Atobe the year before.

 

[Fayte]

Tezuka played atobe before anyway...and plot hax

I dunno...we did have a discussion before about Zan, and what it is. Atobe and Fayte thinks its net defence, and I do too, I think its more of a position where you can spam rin and ka :L...sanada only used ka against Tezuka though but still...it took out Atobe the year before.

I said I think Zan is simply a movement like the teleportation part of Rai. It's possible Zan actually IS the teleport part of Rai, and Rai is the actual swing part. Though the last part is just a theory.

 

[javimgol]

It's really strange Zan has never appeared, even in DataBooks or the last Pair Puri...