The New Shichibukai Are...?

[Josef]

Meh it does not take for people to betray the government a lot. I mean look at Blackbeard? He jumped positions from pirate, to government agent in a snap! So either the WG has some secret plan with the most loyal Shichibukai, which should be Kuma and Mihawk, and Dofla was never safe for this position, Oda foreshadowed his resignation when he talked to the guy in the hat before the time skip.

I just really want to see on what basis do they pick them, in more detail. Even Mihawk betrayed them a bit by training Zoro. I mean this position is "just business" in the end. They have to change how they look on the shichibukai to have more permanent members, or just replace them with an army of super powerful Kumas. At least we know they will remain loyal.

 

[Kaiten]

Meh it does not take for people to betray the government a lot. I mean look at Blackbeard? He jumped positions from pirate, to government agent in a snap! So either the WG has some secret plan with the most loyal Shichibukai, which should be Kuma and Mihawk, and Dofla was never safe for this position, Oda foreshadowed his resignation when he talked to the guy in the hat before the time skip.

It seems like there used to be more stability among the Shichibukai. The government does not seem to take resignation little. Losing seems completely unacceptable, look at the two who dared lose to Luffy. Oda is establishing the theme of Luffy's generation breaking down the balance of power the old generation worked so hard to build. Turmoil within the Shichibukai, The Marineford War, alliances among the Supernova, Luffy and Law's war against Kaido. I think Oda is building towards something, the world descending into chaos as the next Pirate King begins to emerge. The growing instability of the Shichibukai is part of that. How long can the organization remain relevant after so much turnover in such a short period of time.

I just really want to see on what basis do they pick them, in more detail. Even Mihawk betrayed them a bit by training Zoro. I mean this position is "just business" in the end. They have to change how they look on the shichibukai to have more permanent members, or just replace them with an army of super powerful Kumas. At least we know they will remain loyal.

Notoriety. Shichibukai have to be able to intimidate other pirates. Teach proved he was worthy by capturing Ace. Law by exchanging the hearts of 100 pirates.

 

[alisdfd]

enel is likely to be the new warlord or admiral why first he is the king of skypiea hence a noble thus he is corrupt and likely to be convinced to join the elite group of world govt

 

[zerocooldx]

The only reason that the position of Shichibukai even exists is because the WG wants to do certain things using "criminals" and those individuals in turn use the protection of the WG to move about and achieve their own goals without the prying eyes of the Marines. Shichibukai aren't really much more then mercenaries, its just that they trade services for certain accommodations and privileges rather then money. The very concept of the position is highly unstable and rests on the fact that both sides need each other in order for it to work.

Meaning that if one side has gotten all they can or want from the other they will easily leave since they have no ties or obligations to one another. You can call it betrayal or whatnot but at the end of the day there has to be a mutual trust between parties in oder for there to be betrayal, but trust is something i have yet to see from any of the Shichibukai towards the WG. Kuma not included. Simply put the title of Shichibukai is a means to an end for both parties. So naturally its expected for it to be a bit of a revolving door especially depending on the times.

 

[Kaiten]

Privateers is the correct term, not mercenaries. They are pirates granted government sanction to plunder. In real life, those were privateers. Sir Francis Drake was a famous example.

Based on everything we know, until Luffy beat Crocodile, the position was very stable. If Shichibukai came and went with impunity, why would the government become so angry when Crocodile lost to Luffy. And why would they imprison Jinbe for refusing to fight against Whitebeard? Boa Hancock also was threatened for initially refusing the Government's summons to fight at Marineford. She only agreed in order to smuggle Luffy into Impel Down. These actions are only explainable if the Government seeks stability, and requires loyalty, from the Shichibukai.

It is well known that both sides have something to gain from the arrangement. The Shichibukai form part of the balance of power, along with the Marines they work as a counterweight against the Yonkou. They also act to intimidate lesser Pirates, the reason the Government was so angry Crocodile lost to a then unknown rookie. Each individual Shichibukai have been shown to have their own motives for joining. It's a business arrangement, both sides have something to gain. Trust is not a factor.

 

[Samui]

Privateers is the correct term, not mercenaries. They are pirates granted government sanction to plunder. In real life, those were privateers. Sir Francis Drake was a famous example.

Based on everything we know, until Luffy beat Crocodile, the position was very stable. If Shichibukai came and went with impunity, why would the government become so angry when Crocodile lost to Luffy. And why would they imprison Jinbe for refusing to fight against Whitebeard? Boa Hancock also was threatened for initially refusing the Government's summons to fight at Marineford. She only agreed in order to smuggle Luffy into Impel Down. These actions are only explainable if the Government seeks stability, and requires loyalty, from the Shichibukai.

It is well known that both sides have something to gain from the arrangement. The Shichibukai form part of the balance of power, along with the Marines they work as a counterweight against the Yonkou. They also act to intimidate lesser Pirates, the reason the Government was so angry Crocodile lost to a then unknown rookie. Each individual Shichibukai have been shown to have their own motives for joining. It's a business arrangement, both sides have something to gain. Trust is not a factor.

Indeed, seeing as Hancock was recruited 13 years ago, Moria - atleast - 12 years ago, Jinbei 11 years ago and Doflamingo 10 years ago. Crocodile had been a Shichibukai for at the very least 4 years until his defeat. Mihawk is very likely the most veteran among the Shichibukai. So we're left with Kuma's spot, which we could say that has been replaced over and over again until Kuma has finally accepted it (following Ace's refusal).

 

[zerocooldx]

Based on everything we know, until Luffy beat Crocodile, the position was very stable. If Shichibukai came and went with impunity, why would the government become so angry when Crocodile lost to Luffy. And why would they imprison Jinbe for refusing to fight against Whitebeard? Boa Hancock also was threatened for initially refusing the Government's summons to fight at Marineford. She only agreed in order to smuggle Luffy into Impel Down. These actions are only explainable if the Government seeks stability, and requires loyalty, from the Shichibukai.

It is well known that both sides have something to gain from the arrangement. The Shichibukai form part of the balance of power, along with the Marines they work as a counterweight against the Yonkou. They also act to intimidate lesser Pirates, the reason the Government was so angry Crocodile lost to a then unknown rookie. Each individual Shichibukai have been shown to have their own motives for joining. It's a business arrangement, both sides have something to gain. Trust is not a factor.

But there aren't any indications that the position of Shichibukai has historically been stable. All we've seen is that the WG doesn't take it lightly when Shichibukai decide to do things that the WG doesn't allow for Shichibukai to do. There is a big difference between not wanting to be taken advantage of and having stability within a position. Crocodile got locked up and thrown into ID because he decided to do things behind the back of the WG. It had nothing to do with him losing to Luffy and everything with him taking advantage of his Shichibukai title and taking advantage of the WG thus making them look bad. Luffy simply exposed this thus the WG got pissed and locked him up for making fools of them.

In Jinbe's case it was obvious that they had to imprison him because he showed up to ID and publicly sided with WB, the very man that the WG was going to fight against. It would make no sense the let Jinbe do whatever he wanted after deciding to chose WB over the WG, that act alone made him a criminal once again and just like with all criminals he was imprisoned. And Hancock did what she did in large part because the WG threatened to strip her of her Shichibukai title which would then lift its protection over Amazon Lily. None of those examples have any signs of the WG wanting loyalty, those are examples of the WG letting the Shichibukai have privileges that at any time can be revoked by them if the Shichibukai don't play the rules of the WG.

We saw another example of this when the WG had Doflamingo attempt to take out Moria. If you want to talk about real genuine loyalty then trust has to be there, you can't have loyalty without trust. A business arrangement has nothing to do with loyalty. Criminals aren't loyal to the people who are naturally their opposites, thats why the WG has to give incentives for criminals to join the Shichibukai and at the same time punish them by taking those privileges back for stepping out of line. Because if they don't then it makes them look weak. If the WG wanted loyalty within the Shichibukai they wouldn't need to make deals with criminals. As i said the whole concept of the position is anything but stable because you have two polar opposite forces working together to further their own individual goals.

 

[Kaiten]

How do you figure there has historically been instability in the ranks. As Samui pointed out, most of the Shichibukai have been members for years, some for a decade, or more. What actual evidence suggests that before Alabasta, the Shichibukai as an unstable organization? So far all evidence indicates a historically stable organization, only recently wracked by instability.

What makes you think there is genuine loyalty between the Government and Shichibukai? When has either side acted particularly loyal? Both pirates and government openly are only working together out of mutual benefit. The organization is not supposed to foster trust. The World Government itself is hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy. It's a corrupt arrangement, not meant to foster trust. It's a matter of convenience for both sides. It's stability, until recently, rested on mutual benefit for all parties involved.

 

[zerocooldx]

How do you figure there has historically been instability in the ranks. As Samui pointed out, most of the Shichibukai have been members for years, some for a decade, or more. What actual evidence suggests that before Alabasta, the Shichibukai as an unstable organization? So far all evidence indicates a historically stable organization, only recently wracked by instability.

What makes you think there is genuine loyalty between the Government and Shichibukai? When has either side acted particularly loyal? Both pirates and government openly are only working together out of mutual benefit. The organization is not supposed to foster trust. The World Government itself is hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy. It's a corrupt arrangement, not meant to foster trust. It's a matter of convenience for both sides. It's stability, until recently, rested on mutual benefit for all parties involved.

I said that the very concept of the position makes it unstable. A position can't be defined as being stable if multiple members of a small group can stay anywhere between 10+ years to 1-2 years to 1-2 months. Criminal aren't going to suddenly turn over a new leaf and go join the other side, nor is the WG going to forget the fact that Shichibukai are criminals. That element will always exist. I also said it depends on the times that the world is currently in to decide how unstable the Shichibukai are. The world of OP has been fairly stable for at least the second half of the 20+ years since Roger died. So there has been little to no reason for most people and organizations to make moves because it was "peace time". However we've seen what happens when someone stirs the pot, both the WG and criminals start looking for bigger and better things by taking advantage of the chaos.

As a result Shichibukai join for short term gains and the WG goes as far as to eliminate members of the Shichibukai they don't see fit to serve anymore because the times are unstable and there is nothing binding the two parties other then individual motives. Also i never said that the WG requires loyalty from the Shichibukai, you said that. To which i replied basically saying that anyone whose "loyalty" can be bargained for is not someone that anyone with any sense would deem to be a loyal individual. Therefore if you want to use the term loyalty in the proper sense it has to include trust. Which is why there is no loyalty between the WG and the Shichibukai. Hence the reason we see some members stick around and others come and go before hardly anyone knows they've even become Shichibukai. The role of Shichibukai changes with the times. But Marines, pirates, WG members and etc. don't switch sides left and right depending on where they can get the most for themselves.

 

[UnknownMugiwara]

Re: One Piece 699 Discussion / 700 Predictions

Is Buggy confirmed as a Shichibukai?

 

[EMS]

Re: One Piece 699 Discussion / 700 Predictions

Is Buggy confirmed as a Shichibukai?

That will be the biggest joke ever but i can see these happening in the next chapters with all those pirates with imperial prison..

 

[Razh]

Re: One Piece 699 Discussion / 700 Predictions

Is Buggy confirmed as a Shichibukai?

No, but it's not really brain science. We've all seen the black bat sent from WG.

 

[mattiaildivino]

Re: One Piece 699 Discussion / 700 Predictions

Is Buggy confirmed as a Shichibukai?

do we need it? kishi chose not to reveal what was written in the letter,and we saw that jinbe had been contacted by a bat too. it'd be a troll too much if oda had made bugy refuse it.

 

[EddyBob15]

Re: One Piece 699 Discussion / 700 Predictions

Hey, now that Doflamingo has resigned, what if the world government tries to recruit Luffy?

 

[Kaiten]

Re: One Piece 699 Discussion / 700 Predictions

Hey, now that Doflamingo has resigned, what if the world government tries to recruit Luffy?

Luffy, the son of Dragon? Not a chance. The Government hates him. Even if he were not son of the most wanted man in the world, Luffy has humiliated them multiple times. Luffy is going to end up becoming a Yonkou, anyway.

 

[MiyamotoMusashi]

Re: One Piece 699 Discussion / 700 Predictions

Hey, now that Doflamingo has resigned, what if the world government tries to recruit Luffy?

I don´t think Luffy being the son of Dragon would have been a problem if Luffy had sided with the WG. The problem now is his offenses against the WG.
It would have been logical if he had received an invite after beating Crocodile but he was way too weak and inexperienced at that point. After that he "caused" Enies Lobby, declaring war on the WG, so him becoming Shichibukai at some point became impossible.

 

[Kaiten]

Beating Crocodile is part of the reason he will never be offered the post. He humiliated the government. They would not even publicly credit him with defeating Crocodile. Smoker was given credit for the defeat of Baroque Works. Luffy has been hated by the World Government ever since. Defeating Crocodile is what made him a Supernova, that is when his bounty rose to 100million beri.

 

[MiyamotoMusashi]

Beating Crocodile is part of the reason he will never be offered the post. He humiliated the government. They would not even publicly credit him with defeating Crocodile. Smoker was given credit for the defeat of Baroque Works. Luffy has been hated by the World Government ever since. Defeating Crocodile is what made him a Supernova, that is when his bounty rose to 100million beri.

He did not really humiliate the government, Crocodile´s criminal activities did that. There are 3 things a Shichibukai needs, fame, popularity and power. If Luffy had been powerful enough, the WG would have had no problems to depict him as hero who saved Alabasta and beat Crocodile, thus also giving him the other two. Him being a rookie or being a D. would have been no problem since they invited Ace in his rookie year. The fact that he is that weak and still beat an asset of the WG would have humiliated them if it was made public.

 

[EddyBob15]

Re: One Piece 699 Discussion / 700 Predictions

Luffy, the son of Dragon? Not a chance. The Government hates him. Even if he were not son of the most wanted man in the world, Luffy has humiliated them multiple times. Luffy is going to end up becoming a Yonkou, anyway.

It was just a thought. However, I don't think Luffy will settle for be a Yonkou.

 

[Josef]

Re: One Piece 699 Discussion / 700 Predictions

It was just a thought. However, I don't think Luffy will settle for be a Yonkou.

Luffy's dream is to be Pirate King, nothing more nothing less.

The whole 7 warlords just for names sake should be a bit silly if the government is so bent on getting them to be 7 at all time. It's just that they can create a new agency/branch/organization of the government that has a similar ring to it. Just change the name, maybe ...