Discussion The Raging Tide

[Cinera]

With Baam almost done with White, I think the Dark Change was lukewarm. Baam feels like the same person he was before Dark Change, only stronger. He hasn't had the profound character shifting moment we were promised.


I originally believed that Maschenny would break Baam, but then changed my mind when Dark Change began (and also because I ship Baam and Maschenny). The nonevent of Dark Change makes me think that Princess may yet be the one to break him.

As such, I am once again open to speculation that Jinsung might die (specifically killed by Princess Maschenny).

A brief explanation of the case follows.

At the start of the Nest, Maschenny questioned if Baam would really come to the Nest and wanted to see, what he was truly capable of:

She followed this up by wishing for him to become a vast wave of anger the likes of which the Tower has never seen before:

Dark Change Baam is most certainly not that never before seen "vast wave of anger". He's not the boundless tide that Maschenny was hoping for. Should Baam head to Maschenny now, he's going to disappoint her expectations.

Could this disappointment cause Maschenny to try and engineer that transformation herself?

She kidnapped Jinsung and brought him to the Nest in part because he's like a breakwater for Baam:

(For the unaware, the definition of "breakwater" from Oxford dictionary:

A barrier built out into the sea to protect a coast or harbour from the force of waves.

Might she intend to shatter that breakwater? Jinsung is the last defence keeping the raging tide at bay. But it is that very raging tide that Maschenny seeks. So that the waves may flow, Maschenny might destroy that breakwater.


Some people that may be interested:
@Anzere1stclass, @O_n_Sly, @Vali x lucifer, @Demonspeed, @kkck, @paulbee, @Mizaistorm, @Sakashi, @Fiodor Pavlovich K, @PGT, @AdityaG, @Shadowlord123, @hblock, @Jammin, @Turtle hunter, @Pro Factor, @King Dryst, @Orbs2op, @sazon, @Yhamir ♤♧, @Jubei_Kibagami.

 

[Anzere1stclass]

With Baam almost done with White, I think the Dark Change was lukewarm. Baam feels like the same person he was before Dark Change, only stronger. He hasn't had the profound character shifting moment we were promised.


I originally believed that Maschenny would break Baam, but then changed my mind when Dark Change began (and also because I ship Baam and Maschenny). The nonevent of Dark Change makes me think that Princess may yet be the one to break him.

As such, I am once again open to speculation that Jinsung might die (specifically killed by Princess Maschenny).

A brief explanation of the case follows.

At the start of the Nest, Maschenny questioned if Baam would really come to the Nest and wanted to see, what he was truly capable of:

She followed this up by wishing for him to become a vast wave of anger the likes of which the Tower has never seen before:

Dark Change Baam is most certainly not that never before seen "vast wave of anger". He's not the boundless tide that Maschenny was hoping for. Should Baam head to Maschenny now, he's going to disappoint her expectations.

Could this disappointment cause Maschenny to try and engineer that transformation herself?

She kidnapped Jinsung and brought him to the Nest in part because he's like a breakwater for Baam:

(For the unaware, the definition of "breakwater" from Oxford dictionary:



Might she intend to shatter that breakwater? Jinsung is the last defence keeping the raging tide at bay. But it is that very raging tide that Maschenny seeks. So that the waves may flow, Maschenny might destroy that breakwater.


Some people that may be interested:
@Anzere1stclass, @O_n_Sly, @Vali x lucifer, @Demonspeed, @kkck, @paulbee, @Mizaistorm, @Sakashi, @Fiodor Pavlovich K, @PGT, @AdityaG, @Shadowlord123, @hblock, @Jammin, @Turtle hunter, @Pro Factor, @King Dryst, @Orbs2op, @sazon, @Yhamir ♤♧, @Jubei_Kibagami.

What you say make a lot of sense rights now I would say that bam is in the first state of corruption white when he had begun to be corrupted he didn't immediately become like he is now its had taken a lot of time like we have seen in many of his flashbacks more he devoured soul more he had begin to lose himself bam is exactly like white in his first step towards corruption maschenny will probably be the reason of bam goes into the second state of corruption

 

[Vali x lucifer]

I don't think she will kill Jinsung because
1) She isn't completely crazy, he is important to the Ha family and she has some respect for living legends so if she kills him, she woud do it in a fight imo
2) She wants to steal something from the frozen waterfall and she can't do it herself
3) she doesn't want Baam to die here, she doesn't plan on having the last fight of her life now and if they meet after a few years or even months i wouldn't be shocked if Baam could just low diff her, while the fight to avenge Jinsung would need to be epic and thrilling.

It could end up with Maschenny beatig Baam, then killing Jinsung and having the rematch in the future but i don't think siu will turn Maschenny into that type of enemy.

 

[Cinera]

1) She isn't completely crazy, he is important to the Ha family and she has some respect for living legends so if she kills him, she woud do it in a fight imo

Yep. His value to the Ha is a strong argument against. Especially as Maschenny cites it as one of the reasons she kidnapped him:

) She wants to steal something from the frozen waterfall and she can't do it herself

I don't see what this has to do with Jinsung. She could just send one of her minions to swipe it during the chaos of the battle.

3) she doesn't want Baam to die here, she doesn't plan on having the last fight of her life now and if they meet after a few years or even months i wouldn't be shocked if Baam could just low diff her, while the fight to avenge Jinsung would need to be epic and thrilling.

Hmm, if she kills Jinsung, it'll be before her battle with Baam here begins in earnest.

But it's not like Maschenny wants to kill Jinsung. She wants a certain transformation from Baam, and killing Jinsung might be the way to get it.

It could end up with Maschenny beatig Baam, then killing Jinsung and having the rematch in the future but i don't think siu will turn Maschenny into that type of enemy.

I hope not. However, SIU did foreshadow Baam devouring Maschenny:

All things considered, I hope she doesn't kill Jinsung.

 

[Vali x lucifer]

Yep. His value to the Ha is a strong argument against. Especially as Maschenny cites it as one of the reasons she kidnapped him:

I don't see what this has to do with Jinsung. She could just send one of her minions to swipe it during the chaos of the battle.



Hmm, if she kills Jinsung, it'll be before her battle with Baam here begins in earnest.

But it's not like Maschenny wants to kill Jinsung. She wants a certain transformation from Baam, and killing Jinsung might be the way to get it.



I hope not. However, SIU did foreshadow Baam devouring Maschenny:

All things considered, I hope she doesn't kill Jinsung.

The waterfall argument is there because i think it's obvious that Baam will be the one entering it (Hwaryun gave him the outfit for that....rip) since the item was put there by Jahad. So i think they will need to tolerate each other at least. Killing Jinsung is probably the fastest way for Maschenny to lose the possibility of getting what she wants. I am positive she would be willing to release Jinsung after a small fight (to display her power) if Baam agrees to get what she wants. If she kills Jinsung while Baam is in the waterfall looking for the item then she would become a dead woman walking and she knows it.

 

[Cinera]

The waterfall argument is there because i think it's obvious that Baam will be the one entering it (Hwaryun gave him the outfit for that....rip)

I think this is a misunderstanding? Hwaryun gave him equipment for the Nest proper, not the Frozen Waterfall. At least as far as I'm aware.

So i think they will need to tolerate each other at least. Killing Jinsung is probably the fastest way for Maschenny to lose the possibility of getting what she wants. I am positive she would be willing to release Jinsung after a small fight (to display her power) if Baam agrees to get what she wants. If she kills Jinsung while Baam is in the waterfall looking for the item then she would become a dead woman walking and she knows it.

If Baam is the only one capable of accessing the Frozen Waterfall then yes, this could very well be the case. I'm not convinced it's the case though. I'm sceptical of the whole "Maschenny barters Jinsung's life with Baam" speculation. I think McCage implied that Baam is going to need to fight to rescue his master:

I don't think it'll be as easy as getting something for her in exchange for Jinsung.

Furthermore, Maschenny doesn't want a specific item; she doesn't even know what's inside the Frozen Waterfall. She's just interested in what her Father stored there:

I'm sceptical that she will barter the known Jinsung for the unknown treasure in the Frozen Waterfall.

I'm also sceptical that she will rely on Baam to get whatever is stored inside, as opposed to asking one of her minions to do so during the chaos of the battle. Unless the Frozen Waterfall is inaccessible to everyone but Irregulars, she shouldn't need Baam to swipe Daddy's treasure for her.


All of the above said, Maschenny wouldn't kill Jinsung if she sends Baam to do something for her. Her killing Jinsung would only happen if they fight and she finds Baam disappointing and so tries to so motivate him.

 

[Vali x lucifer]

I think this is a misunderstanding? Hwaryun gave him equipment for the Nest proper, not the Frozen Waterfall. At least as far as I'm aware.



If Baam is the only one capable of accessing the Frozen Waterfall then yes, this could very well be the case. I'm not convinced it's the case though. I'm sceptical of the whole "Maschenny barters Jinsung's life with Baam" speculation. I think McCage implied that Baam is going to need to fight to rescue his master:

I don't think it'll be as easy as getting something for her in exchange for Jinsung.

Furthermore, Maschenny doesn't want a specific item; she doesn't even know what's inside the Frozen Waterfall. She's just interested in what her Father stored there:

I'm sceptical that she will barter the known Jinsung for the unknown treasure in the Frozen Waterfall.

I'm also sceptical that she will rely on Baam to get whatever is stored inside, as opposed to asking one of her minions to do so during the chaos of the battle. Unless the Frozen Waterfall is inaccessible to everyone but Irregulars, she shouldn't need Baam to swipe Daddy's treasure for her.


All of the above said, Maschenny wouldn't kill Jinsung if she sends Baam to do something for her. Her killing Jinsung would only happen if they fight and she finds Baam disappointing and so tries to so motivate him.

I got that idea of the outfit because Maschenny and Jinsung aren't wearing it, so if Baam get to Jinsung and ports out then it would have been useless no ? No one else aside from Khun has it either. But it's true that she doesn't exactly know what is inside

 

[Cinera]

I got that idea of the outfit because Maschenny and Jinsung aren't wearing it, so if Baam get to Jinsung and ports out then it would have been useless no ? No one else aside from Khun has it either. But it's true that she doesn't exactly know what is inside

Maschenny says that High Rankers cannot access the Frozen Waterfall without special gear:

Baam isn't wearing any "special gear", he has some clothes that Hwaryun picked out for him to use for battle at the Nest. It's not for the purposes of accessing the Frozen Waterfall. Those clothes have been ripped anyway.

 

[Vali x lucifer]

Yeah it could be the case, afterall siu would have highlighted the outfit more if it was needed to enter the waterfall, plus he had no desire of entering it in the first place

 

[Fish009]

Tbh I think the dark change only refers to his shinsoo, not really expecting him to have any drastic character development at this point, itll be cool to see that tho

 

[Vali x lucifer]

Tbh I think the dark change only refers to his shinsoo, not really expecting him to have any drastic character development at this point, itll be cool to see that tho

It seems to me that the whole point of the dark change is Baam allowing himself to use the Sun power to forcibly and willingly absorb and use as much power he needs regardless of the moral implications of it.

 

[King Dryst]

Jinsung still has to survive and be rescued for Baam to come away from this battle with a win. Without that, FUG won't get in line behind him and the war will effectively cease to escalate further. So no, it seems counterproductive to kill him.

There are other ways to coax a reaction out of Baam.

 

[VON]

Jinsung is honestly protected by the win conditions for team FUG. If he dies, the only other win in the eyes of the public is killing all the Corp Commander & Maschenny and destroying the Nest but who the hell has the time and power to do that when the main force of the LPB is breathing down on their necks?