The Relationship Between Kaidou and Dofla

[Kaiten]

I think stopping SAD production would prevent Kaidou and possibly other yonkou from getting stronger. As long as SAD continues to be made, whoever gets it will get stronger. Law likely aimed to prevent the customers from getting stronger.

of course, I forgot what SAD is. I keep thinking it makes devil fruit. :\ If that's true, then I stick by with what I said.

What you said was true. SAD is a chemical compound that only CC knows how to produce. Dofla owns a factory that can turn SAD into smiles, artificial zoan devil fruit.

And yes, eliminating smiles ensures Kaido can not get stronger. As long as he has access to smiles his army of devil fruit users can continue to grow exponentially. Law's plan has to do more than keep him from getting stronger though, it must also weaken him. Kaido is still a Yonkou, even if he can't get stronger, he's still more than Luffy and Law can handle as things are now. In a sense those who complain about power levels are correct. The Marine needed a war to defeat Whitebeard. The next phases of Law's plan must not only prevent Kaido from becoming stronger, but actively weaken his position. Eliminating allies, seizing territory. Something like that.

Wouldn't it be interesting if smiles only temporarily grant df powers? Maybe unlike real df, the powers are not absorbed into the dna (or w/e), and don't become permanent. Losing Smiles would be a real blow then. Not only could he not increase the size of his army, but without more fruit his troops will lose their powers. Probably not, but it would be an interesting twist.

 

[MiyamotoMusashi]

Do you have other theories about Law weakening Kaidou? I like the idea about Smiles being a temporary power up but even if Kaidou loses his special Zoan corps, he should still be too much for Luffy and Law to handle. Kaidou seems to be a Yonkou for a long time which would mean that even without the Smiles, he had enough power to be in a stalemate with guys like WB or Shanks.
My guess right now is that the Smiles have some kind of switch integrated to them, similar to how Momo reacted to the words "get a hold of yourself", which could turn the Smile users against Kaidou. I think several hundred Zoan users could be a problem, even for Kaidou´s crew.

 

[ukimix]

Do you have other theories about Law weakening Kaidou? I like the idea about Smiles being a temporary power up but even if Kaidou loses his special Zoan corps, he should still be too much for Luffy and Law to handle. Kaidou seems to be a Yonkou for a long time which would mean that even without the Smiles, he had enough power to be in a stalemate with guys like WB or Shanks.
My guess right now is that the Smiles have some kind of switch integrated to them, similar to how Momo reacted to the words "get a hold of yourself", which could turn the Smile users against Kaidou. I think several hundred Zoan users could be a problem, even for Kaidou´s crew.

Your post drove me to this page:

Spoiler

If smileys are the future, slaves are the past. An slave has to obey no matter what order they are required to follow. Maybe, smileys are the future because smileys users are much more obedient; and in addition their power is increased... It would be like a development in terms of eficiency in the field of having obedient and useful slaves. If that would be the case, Tenryubitos could also be potential buyers of the smiley. ... Nice, imo.

 

[Kaiten]

Do you have other theories about Law weakening Kaidou? I like the idea about Smiles being a temporary power up but even if Kaidou loses his special Zoan corps, he should still be too much for Luffy and Law to handle. Kaidou seems to be a Yonkou for a long time which would mean that even without the Smiles, he had enough power to be in a stalemate with guys like WB or Shanks.
My guess right now is that the Smiles have some kind of switch integrated to them, similar to how Momo reacted to the words "get a hold of yourself", which could turn the Smile users against Kaidou. I think several hundred Zoan users could be a problem, even for Kaidou´s crew.

Stopping SAD production was only the first step. All I am speculating about is the first stage of Law's plan. Even if smile powers only last temporarily, more will need to be done before Law and Luffy are ready to confront the Kaido Pirates. The next step could be liberating islands from Kaido. We saw the terms Mam imposed on Fishman Island. I can't imagine Kaido's terms are any more benevolent. Maybe they drive allies of Kaido's off of an island, or two, convincing them to fly Luffy's jolly roger instead.

 

[M3J]

What you said was true. SAD is a chemical compound that only CC knows how to produce. Dofla owns a factory that can turn SAD into smiles, artificial zoan devil fruit.

And yes, eliminating smiles ensures Kaido can not get stronger. As long as he has access to smiles his army of devil fruit users can continue to grow exponentially. Law's plan has to do more than keep him from getting stronger though, it must also weaken him. Kaido is still a Yonkou, even if he can't get stronger, he's still more than Luffy and Law can handle as things are now. In a sense those who complain about power levels are correct. The Marine needed a war to defeat Whitebeard. The next phases of Law's plan must not only prevent Kaido from becoming stronger, but actively weaken his position. Eliminating allies, seizing territory. Something like that.

Wouldn't it be interesting if smiles only temporarily grant df powers? Maybe unlike real df, the powers are not absorbed into the dna (or w/e), and don't become permanent. Losing Smiles would be a real blow then. Not only could he not increase the size of his army, but without more fruit his troops will lose their powers. Probably not, but it would be an interesting twist.

I could see that happening - which would effectively reduce Kaidou's pirates' power just enough or significantly. I'm sure they have more than just temporary devil fruit's power that makes them dangerous, but SHP and Law (possibly his crew as well) would have an easier time fighting normal Kaidou pirates. Temporary devil fruit power can't be the only reason why Kaidou's crew is as dangerous, I'm sure we'd see more of their own abilities. Weren't Whitebeard and Lucci dangerous for their abilities without using devil fruit?

Law and Luffy most likely would have a difficult time handling Kaidou. Not sure if they'd get others to join, but those two beating Kaidou would say a lot about their power as it took Marine and Blackbeard crew to finally end Whitebeard.

 

[Kaiten]

I could see that happening - which would effectively reduce Kaidou's pirates' power just enough or significantly. I'm sure they have more than just temporary devil fruit's power that makes them dangerous, but SHP and Law (possibly his crew as well) would have an easier time fighting normal Kaidou pirates. Temporary devil fruit power can't be the only reason why Kaidou's crew is as dangerous, I'm sure we'd see more of their own abilities. Weren't Whitebeard and Lucci dangerous for their abilities without using devil fruit?

Law and Luffy most likely would have a difficult time handling Kaidou. Not sure if they'd get others to join, but those two beating Kaidou would say a lot about their power as it took Marine and Blackbeard crew to finally end Whitebeard.

My rationale is basically this: Caesar may not have the expertise level needed to give humans permanent devil fruit powers. Or, like MiyamotoMusashi said, they could add some sort of switch to the fruit, limiting how long it's effective, forcing Kaido to buy more and more from Dofla.

I have a feeling Kaido and his officers have real devil fruit powers, some could also be haki users. The smile users could be lower ranking, foot soldiers in his army.

---------- Post added February 06, 2013 at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was February 04, 2013 at 09:42 PM ----------

An interesting comment about smiles in this weeks chapter. Law said that as artificial fruit, there are side effects (risks in the Mangarule version). Very interesting. There is going to be more to this than preventing the continued growth of Kaido's army. That, of course, is one goal, and already stated by Law.

 

[k-dom]

If the side effect of the artificial devil fruits allow to weaken Kaidou then there is no point in destroying the SAD and smiles production. I understand it more as a fact that real fruits are still better. I wouldn't be surprised if the risks in question were that you die in half of the case or something similar. But Kaidou doesn't seem to be someone who care much about such facts.
But it's clear that we miss something that would really weaken Kaidou at this stage of the plan.

 

[M3J]

My rationale is basically this: Caesar may not have the expertise level needed to give humans permanent devil fruit powers. Or, like MiyamotoMusashi said, they could add some sort of switch to the fruit, limiting how long it's effective, forcing Kaido to buy more and more from Dofla.

I have a feeling Kaido and his officers have real devil fruit powers, some could also be haki users. The smile users could be lower ranking, foot soldiers in his army.

---------- Post added February 06, 2013 at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was February 04, 2013 at 09:42 PM ----------

An interesting comment about smiles in this weeks chapter. Law said that as artificial fruit, there are side effects (risks in the Mangarule version). Very interesting. There is going to be more to this than preventing the continued growth of Kaido's army. That, of course, is one goal, and already stated by Law.

I agree. Chances are, the smile users will be taken out with some relative ease, as well.

If the side effect of the artificial devil fruits allow to weaken Kaidou then there is no point in destroying the SAD and smiles production. I understand it more as a fact that real fruits are still better. I wouldn't be surprised if the risks in question were that you die in half of the case or something similar. But Kaidou doesn't seem to be someone who care much about such facts.
But it's clear that we miss something that would really weaken Kaidou at this stage of the plan.

There is actually a point, considering the artificial devil fruit still seemingly give power to whoever consumes it. We don't know what the side effects are, but as Kaiten said, it could be that artificial devil fruits don't last as long, in order to keep Kaidou buying more.

Destroying SAD would also prevent more devil fruit users in his army as well.

 

[Kaiten]

I agree. Chances are, the smile users will be taken out with some relative ease, as well.

I have a hunch the smile users are fodder, that their power is in numbers. That is overwhelming, 500 devil fruit users. Power levels almost do not matter when you are talking about such a big number.

There is actually a point, considering the artificial devil fruit still seemingly give power to whoever consumes it. We don't know what the side effects are, but as Kaiten said, it could be that artificial devil fruits don't last as long, in order to keep Kaidou buying more.

Destroying SAD would also prevent more devil fruit users in his army as well.

Ultimately Law mentioned that there were side effects for a reason. It wasn't idle chatter, or trivia, but an important point, something that will effect how Kaido's army fights.

You're exactly right, the point of destroying the SAD facility, and the smile factory, is to prevent Kaido's army from growing even larger. Law's plan has just begun. It's not at the point yet where they can weaken Kaido. Right now they only want to ensure he can not get any stronger.

 

[0Xellos]

I guess the thread topic got answered in recent chapters... at least we know they're no best buddies, just partners in crime. Dofla is even implied by Law to be the inferior one in this relationship.