Discussion The relationship between Ryoma and Ryoga echizen.

[Shogun Ryoma]

Ryoga went from being a cool chill older brother to wanting to "consume" ryoma's tennis, what exactly made him flip?

Before he was watching out for his bro, "guiding" him and even respected his decision to go back to Japan.

Now it seems its just not about the tennis match anymore, it's more than a tourney for them, especially to ryoga.

 

[Ganonslayer101]

Ryoga is definitely an enigma as a character, we haven't really seen him play in any revealing context and his attitude is so flippant that it's hard to get a read on him. Add all the story changes that occur in NPoT and it's hard to say he didn't just change with the story. But playing Devil's advocate let's assume that Ryoga is still the same as he was and he has a reason for acting like he is now.

Assuming that he hasn't just completely flipped characterization, then it could just be a large ruse. Ryoma's always been a huge bully hunter, insistent on taking down haughty and disrespectful players. Plus he performs his best when playing for something other than himself (his unofficial losses are all games he plays with just his pride on the line). We also know Ryoga saw his match with Yukimura and his reaction to Byoudin's actions towards Tokugawa.

With all this in mind it's possible that Ryoga is setting the stage to be Ryoma's greatest opponent yet. Not just in power level, but as an embodiment of the worst attributes of Ryoma's previous opponents. He's the haughtiest player who keeps belittling Ryoma as his little brother, along with the US team. He steals the ability to play Tennis from people. And he shows complete disloyalty to any team, which is usually a driving force for Ryoma. Throw in the likelihood that he'll also Consume Nanjiro and he "crosses a line" with Ryoma.

Wrap that all in a package with the Echizen brothers fighting in S2, Ryoma desperately trying to pass the baton to Tokugawa, or Reserve, where it all comes down to his ability, and you have the stage set for Ryoma to evolve as much as possible. Ryoma thrives under these conditions and Ryoga saw Ryoma learn Destruction in like an hour and master it to the point of combining it with other moves, developed a Kijin, and unlocked PoP against Yukimura. He knows that Ryoma evolves fast and he is potentially doing everything to have that Serious match with him that he promised him as kids.

 

[Shogun Ryoma]

Ryoga is definitely an enigma as a character, we haven't really seen him play in any revealing context and his attitude is so flippant that it's hard to get a read on him. Add all the story changes that occur in NPoT and it's hard to say he didn't just change with the story. But playing Devil's advocate let's assume that Ryoga is still the same as he was and he has a reason for acting like he is now.

Assuming that he hasn't just completely flipped characterization, then it could just be a large ruse. Ryoma's always been a huge bully hunter, insistent on taking down haughty and disrespectful players. Plus he performs his best when playing for something other than himself (his unofficial losses are all games he plays with just his pride on the line). We also know Ryoga saw his match with Yukimura and his reaction to Byoudin's actions towards Tokugawa.

With all this in mind it's possible that Ryoga is setting the stage to be Ryoma's greatest opponent yet. Not just in power level, but as an embodiment of the worst attributes of Ryoma's previous opponents. He's the haughtiest player who keeps belittling Ryoma as his little brother, along with the US team. He steals the ability to play Tennis from people. And he shows complete disloyalty to any team, which is usually a driving force for Ryoma. Throw in the likelihood that he'll also Consume Nanjiro and he "crosses a line" with Ryoma.

Wrap that all in a package with the Echizen brothers fighting in S2, Ryoma desperately trying to pass the baton to Tokugawa, or Reserve, where it all comes down to his ability, and you have the stage set for Ryoma to evolve as much as possible. Ryoma thrives under these conditions and Ryoga saw Ryoma learn Destruction in like an hour and master it to the point of combining it with other moves, developed a Kijin, and unlocked PoP against Yukimura. He knows that Ryoma evolves fast and he is potentially doing everything to have that Serious match with him that he promised him as kids.

Thank you for this amazing response, I really hope that's how konomi sensei uses ryoga's character.
I was really upset when ryoga turned against his brother so quickly, without any build up.
Ryoga seems to be in the right team now, Spain team is filled with mysterious/enigmatic players and I like that.

 

[LetalHawk]

Ryoga is definitely an enigma as a character, we haven't really seen him play in any revealing context and his attitude is so flippant that it's hard to get a read on him. Add all the story changes that occur in NPoT and it's hard to say he didn't just change with the story. But playing Devil's advocate let's assume that Ryoga is still the same as he was and he has a reason for acting like he is now.

Assuming that he hasn't just completely flipped characterization, then it could just be a large ruse. Ryoma's always been a huge bully hunter, insistent on taking down haughty and disrespectful players. Plus he performs his best when playing for something other than himself (his unofficial losses are all games he plays with just his pride on the line). We also know Ryoga saw his match with Yukimura and his reaction to Byoudin's actions towards Tokugawa.

With all this in mind it's possible that Ryoga is setting the stage to be Ryoma's greatest opponent yet. Not just in power level, but as an embodiment of the worst attributes of Ryoma's previous opponents. He's the haughtiest player who keeps belittling Ryoma as his little brother, along with the US team. He steals the ability to play Tennis from people. And he shows complete disloyalty to any team, which is usually a driving force for Ryoma. Throw in the likelihood that he'll also Consume Nanjiro and he "crosses a line" with Ryoma.

Wrap that all in a package with the Echizen brothers fighting in S2, Ryoma desperately trying to pass the baton to Tokugawa, or Reserve, where it all comes down to his ability, and you have the stage set for Ryoma to evolve as much as possible. Ryoma thrives under these conditions and Ryoga saw Ryoma learn Destruction in like an hour and master it to the point of combining it with other moves, developed a Kijin, and unlocked PoP against Yukimura. He knows that Ryoma evolves fast and he is potentially doing everything to have that Serious match with him that he promised him as kids.

What’s crazy too is that Ryoma jumped in tiers in almost no time for just practicing with Ryoga. Vs Ludovic he returned the Glowing Shot doubled which is a crazy feat, and even he didn’t use TnK plus other moves and still won with just his Kijin Samurai. For his current match vs Fuji, I also expect him to unlock something, but it won’t be until he faces Ryoga that he’ll be constantly evolving and therefore he will become the strongest player, remember how against Yukimura he just had Muga and ended up unlocking all three doors and overcame Hyakuren’s weakness on the spot, he was playing for Seigaku’s victory and he had to win yes or yes. For his final match, playing for Japan’s WC victory and for finally defeating his brother after all these years, he will get the strongest upgrades to beat his brother, it’ll be nice if after beating Ryoga all the tennis abilities he consumed from other players return to them.

I think it’s almost guaranteed Ryoga will consume Nanjiro’s tennis and that will fire up Ryoma and make him angry, so he will be determined enough to beat his brother, that would be the best scenario for pushing Ryoma to break all his limits, the perfect wakeup call.

Ryoga is an ass, no doubt. They were setting him to be the big baddie of the tournament and have the most ridiculous ability of PoT history, we all know how these kind of players are Ryoma’s main target and end up being defeated by him.

 

[Raya]

Ryoga was always watch out for ryoma and he wanted spend time with him , for that he joined Japan and USA teams and when ryoma quite teams , he moved out too . Now that's unbelievable he really going to destroy ryoma ، it seemed that he only said that in reaction what ryoma said to him .
It revealed His ability to consume is something he has since ha was a child and in that time when he was practicing with Nanjiro , Nanjiro figured it out then he made him to promise him not to play ryoma seriously until ryoma become professional and ryoga didn't even know why. We can't blame him for his inherent ability.
About his joining Spain, It revealed that ryoga is the son of the Spain's coach but we don't know who's the coach of Spain exactly!! Ryoga' mother( who assumed is gone because he lived with his aunt ) or he has stepfather!!!
And one thing I can't figure it out is why was custody of ryoga is given to his aunt?!!

 

[Hardy]

Ryoga was always watch out for ryoma and he wanted spend time with him , for that he joined Japan and USA teams and when ryoma quite teams , he moved out too . Now that's unbelievable he really going to destroy ryoma ، it seemed that he only said that in reaction what ryoma said to him .
It revealed His ability to consume is something he has since ha was a child and in that time when he was practicing with Nanjiro , Nanjiro figured it out then he made him to promise him not to play ryoma seriously until ryoma become professional and ryoga didn't even know why. We can't blame him for his inherent ability.
About his joining Spain, It revealed that ryoga is the son of the Spain's coach but we don't know who's the coach of Spain exactly!! Ryoga' mother( who assumed is gone because he lived with his aunt ) or he has stepfather!!!
And one thing I can't figure it out is why was custody of ryoga is given to his aunt?!!

We don't know for sure. He could had been an inside agent sent by Spain to kill Japan and USA from the inside, but in Japan they were wary of him and in USA he grew fond of the team and didn't consume anyone (Ralph does hint at this, thanking him for leaving the team). With this logic, Ryoma is just a tool that serves him as an excuse to join the teams, rather than someone he was protecting.

We'll probably get info on Spain's coach in the next chapters.

Nanjirou said he got lawyered so I guess he lost custody of Ryoga and he was sent to live with his aunt before he moved somewhere else.

 

[Wuggs]

I remember one scene from the anime where Ryoga deflects a ball from hitting Ryoma’s face after he defeats a tennis player who was bullying other players. Ryoga had a more sinister look while Ryoma is trying to process what’s going on. It felt like that side of Ryoga would never leave himself vulnerable, and had a bit of passive aggressiveness towards Ryoma who, despite of his trials and tribulations with tennis, had them in more spirited environments.

Compare this to Ryoga who dealt with more adult-orientated situations like being a tool for other men’s profits on a cruise ship, not being Nanjiro’s poster child of his legacy, and paper thin bonds with others in less sportsmanlike environments. He could’ve developed an inferiority complex along with his solitude that was his drive to get better. Each moment he had with Echizen was a discourse of the brotherly rivalry that would come.

Consuming Nanjiro’s tennis would be a way to tie loose ends so Ryoma doesn’t see his own father as the end-all be-all; his brother will give him a reality gut check. That in the real world, everyone is evolving, and being blinded by the nostalgia of a legend can actually stifle one’s true potential for a better future; Ryoga channeled the potential out of him in bits. What better way than to have someone as a contrast to Ryoma to unleash this? The ideal Shonen sports rival.

Ryoga, to me, represents the coming of age Ryoma needs in order to find his own tennis and resolve like Tezuka and others strive for that can reach the world. And this can be a chance for Ryoga to find the answers he’s been trying to validate as well, whatever that may be. Maybe a way to revitalize his more morbid and realistic view of tennis.

Ryoga wants Ryoma to get over the wall while Ryoga also needs to have that match with Ryoma to move on as well before they go their separate ways in life.

 

[Hardy]

I remember one scene from the anime where Ryoga deflects a ball from hitting Ryoma’s face after he defeats a tennis player who was bullying other players. Ryoga had a more sinister look while Ryoma is trying to process what’s going on. It felt like that side of Ryoga would never leave himself vulnerable, and had a bit of passive aggressiveness towards Ryoma who, despite of his trials and tribulations with tennis, had them in more spirited environments.

Compare this to Ryoga who dealt with more adult-orientated situations like being a tool for other men’s profits on a cruise ship, not being Nanjiro’s poster child of his legacy, and paper thin bonds with others in less sportsmanlike environments. He could’ve developed an inferiority complex along with his solitude that was his drive to get better. Each moment he had with Echizen was a discourse of the brotherly rivalry that would come.

Consuming Nanjiro’s tennis would be a way to tie loose ends so Ryoma doesn’t see his own father as the end-all be-all; his brother will give him a reality gut check. That in the real world, everyone is evolving, and being blinded by the nostalgia of a legend can actually stifle one’s true potential for a better future; Ryoga channeled the potential out of him in bits. What better way than to have someone as a contrast to Ryoma to unleash this? The ideal Shonen sports rival.

Ryoga, to me, represents the coming of age Ryoma needs in order to find his own tennis and resolve like Tezuka and others strive for that can reach the world. And this can be a chance for Ryoga to find the answers he’s been trying to validate as well, whatever that may be. Maybe a way to revitalize his more morbid and realistic view of tennis.

Ryoga wants Ryoma to get over the wall while Ryoga also needs to have that match with Ryoma to move on as well before they go their separate ways in life.

You may wanna catch up with the latest chapters to find out more about Nanjirou. His tennis getting consumed is currently kind of not really a possibility imo.

 

[Wuggs]

You may wanna catch up with the latest chapters to find out more about Nanjirou. His tennis getting consumed is currently kind of not really a possibility imo.

I admit I had a more cynical outlook ever since stopping around Chapter 317, or so a year ago(?).

----

With how things are turning out now:

The relationship between Ryoma and Ryoga comes full circle with Nanjiro being their center, and thus this triad sets up the experience of the finals as Konomi’s love letter to his fans on his perception on strong fatherly figures like Nanjiro and their dynamic with their children. Nanjiro may not be the best father outside of his legendary status in tennis, but he did ultimately pave the way for both his sons to explore options past their homeland. So both brothers are representations of experiencing a cultural melting pot, and the tournament extends how they react and use that liberation; it also serves as a rite of passage.

Ryoma can borrow the ‘genius’ behind every player he faces and watches, and has a vicarious identification with this to adapt and grow organically. Compare this with Ryoga, who is the complete opposite like I mentioned in my previous post; consuming everything he can with little care of the sentimental value, and seems to be nihilistic about tennis.

Team Spain is Nanjiro’s way to have that indirect battle with both his sons, and to also prepare them a team that would take his prime and develop from that which makes this triad come full circle; not just about whose tennis is superior, but the resolve they have over it. It’s the best way a father can have assurance over his legacy by simply showing his influence towards others outside his family, and seeing where their competencies can take them. It also is Nanjiro’s way to see how both sides of the coin with the brothers are also how he could’ve turned out if he had to choose either path instead of dropping the personal dream early and passing the torch to his legacy.

That decision probably prevented this from being a fatherless shonen on Konomi's part because it would've ruined his message. So Nanjiro is a bit of an insert for him, but I see this as a good thing.

Because ultimately, like Nanjiro said to Ryoga to only take things seriously with Ryoma when he’s a competent player. At least Ryoga has a redeeming quality to respect his father’s wishes. One thing that I’m curious about is if Ryoga’s nihilistic view on tennis is authentic, or a ruse to raise the stakes.



This is why, even to this day, this franchise holds a special place from within for me.