Discussion Thoughts on the Dragon and Demon seeds?

DarkSoulz

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So it was revealed that Natsu has both a Dragon and Demon seed in him that are trying to fuse together. When this happens what do you think will happen to Natsu and the seeds? Do you think one seed will take over the other seed and become the "core" seed, so if Dragon seed becomes core Natsu stays and if the Demon seed wins E.N.D comes? Do you think they will simply merge making Natsu or E.N.D a Dragonslayer/Demon hybrid? What other possibilities can you come up with?
 

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How it looks now, dragon power or demon power being put into a human = a seed.

For END, a demonic power source was growing inside him. When he fully demonises, he will be a demon.

The term of 'slayer' at this stage seems to have 2 meanings...
  • A human with demon/dragon/god power inside them
  • A human who practices <species> slaying magic
Irene invented DSM by having Belserion put dragon power in her. Then the magic she could use was 'dragon slayer magic'. Assuming the same happens for demons, Zeref put demon power inside a dead Natsu, you could call that being a demon slayer under the convention of being a human with demon power - but he hasn't shown to practice DeSM. But once his physiology becomes that of a demon, he is a demon. Same will go for Gray.
 

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Igneel already said Natsu's dragon seed won't cause him any trouble cause of the Dragon Soul Technique he did on him, like the other pacifist dragons did on their kids. It's crazy though, Natsu is already a special case among Etherious. Zeref reverted Mard Geer back into his book... and we know Natsu and his book are connected. What will happen when Natsu's book gets fully opened, which is what Igneel didn't want? Also if you didn't peep, Natsu's demon seed is what Brandish enlarged and the "tumor" at first. Natsu might really have two hearts, wouldn't be surprised.
 

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I can't really make sense of the seed thing to be honest. If the seeds trying to fuse was going to be a problem then natsu shouldn't have been taught dragon slaying magic to begin with. I guess it is plausible the dragons didn't know but at this point this seems kinda unlikely.

Why is there a demon seed though? I can't see other etherious being "seeds", that sounds absurd. And if they are, it was not something eating at them. We know that people become dragons slayers via enchantment. The dragon seed should by all accounts be the enchantment or the result of the enchantment. If anything, the physical form of the enchantment on them. There being a demon seed must mean at some point it was enchanted onto natsu presumably by zeref. Which means there are two possibilities. First would be that first zeref made natsu and then he placed the seed within him for some reason. But that seems kinda off. The second would be that the means by which zeref brought natsu back to life was via placing the seed within him. Which means natsu comes from the actual dead body of zeref's brother.

I guess there are several ways natsu could get past this:

1.- The dragons did know that the seeds being together were going to be an issue but placed them together because of that. Natsu is an etherious whose life is bound to zeref. If this is the case then his connection to zeref is through that seed. So the "plan" would have been that in case the demon seed went crazy then natsu would have had the chance to somehow overcome it and instead rely on his dragon seed to live. This would perhaps be the means by which end becomes a separate life form. If the seed is expelled from natsu's body it could take a life of its own.

2.- The second would be that the seeds succeed in fusing though I don't see a clear part to something like this at this point. It does not seem like zeref can help with this, otherwise he would. If this works then natsu would essentially be a demon dragon slayer.

Perhaps what is actually causing problems in the short run is curse power which natsu can use. Supposedly END was the first to use curse power however seeing this it seems somewhat clear that curse power originated from natsu's demon seed.
 

Doughboy

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Why is there a demon seed though? I can't see other etherious being "seeds", that sounds absurd. And if they are, it was not something eating at them. We know that people become dragons slayers via enchantment. The dragon seed should by all accounts be the enchantment or the result of the enchantment. If anything, the physical form of the enchantment on them. There being a demon seed must mean at some point it was enchanted onto natsu presumably by zeref. Which means there are two possibilities. First would be that first zeref made natsu and then he placed the seed within him for some reason. But that seems kinda off. The second would be that the means by which zeref brought natsu back to life was via placing the seed within him. Which means natsu comes from the actual dead body of zeref's brother.
It could be easily that Natsu is a special case being Zeref's strongest Etherious. This part you highlighted is why the seeds are flukey. Etherious are made up of 100% Ethernano, which is what magic is made of. Would that mean that, say Mard Geer's demon seed, be fully sprouted already within him being that he's an Etherious? Or does his just linger in his body due to him being an Etherious? Hopefully the second theory, the first seems wild unnecessary and a retcon is some ways. Natsu's seeds merging is shocking cause it's really like his curse power is trying to usurp his regular dragon slayer power.
 

Jean Grey

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dragon seed fusing with demon seed :yodawg

half demon half dragon :oooh

maybe God seed+Dragon seed+Demon seed :notsure


that would make him how strong again :notlikethis


Acnologia, you better run my man. Etherious Fire Lightning Dragon God King Mary Sue is coming for you :epicfacepalm
 

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Also if Gray has a demon seed, and this seed is what ties Etherious to Zeref... then Gray could also die if Zeref dies...
 

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Also if Gray has a demon seed, and this seed is what ties Etherious to Zeref... then Gray could also die if Zeref dies...
If this Demon Seed is what makes Natsu what he is... then theoretically, Gray should be pissed at himself for being like Deliora too, right? (if he had the Demon Seed as well)
 
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Yunkers

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Well, Igneel said "Let's call it Demon Seed", not "It is Demon Seed", so what I think it's not the same thing as Dragon Seed, and Igneel call it that to make the explanation easier to understand. Devil Slayers are said to lost their mind, not to becoming Demons, so. I think, they don't have any Seed, or "Demon Seed" works differently than the Dragon one. And there is also possibility that Natsu's "Demonic Power" works differently than Demon Slayers', because it was artifically suplemented by Zeref, not naturally learned (I don't think that Second Generation Dragon Slayers can dragonize, can't they?)
 
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Arjuna

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I think Natsu didn't have originally have the Demon seed inside him.(Igneel just called it Demon Seed).It started to develop only after the hole in the Book of END was made.Now as it is fusing with his Dragon seed and in Igneel's own words Dragon seed has started regrowing.


So i think lot of theories that Natsu will be able to fuse END powers with Dragon Slaying Magic is coming true.Maybe Natsu will gain a Dragon form like Acnologia and Irene.END power+Dragon form a truly powerful form.I doubt it will make him strong enough to defeat Acnologia but it will make him strong enough to fight Acnologia on par all by himself.
 

XXEliteXXAceXX

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Very interesting discussion here. I'm actually glad that this thread exists because I'm curious as to how others interpreted what is possibly really important information.

I have to admit, I'm sort of like @kkck here. Can't really make sense of the dragon seed and demon seed... Although, I think he probably understands it a lot better than I do. Anyways, bear with my ramblings as I don't exactly understand all of this.

I'll start off by answering the OP, then I will start talking more about my personal thoughts.

So it was revealed that Natsu has both a Dragon and Demon seed in him that are trying to fuse together. When this happens what do you think will happen to Natsu and the seeds?
I do believe Natsu will die when the seeds merge. And this comes straight from what the manga has told us.


Do you think one seed will take over the other seed and become the "core" seed, so if Dragon seed becomes core Natsu stays and if the Demon seed wins E.N.D comes? Do you think they will simply merge making Natsu or E.N.D a Dragonslayer/Demon hybrid? What other possibilities can you come up with?
Personally, I don't think Natsu can become a dragon/demon hybrid. Not only does it seem impossible, but it's also counterintuitive to me.

Now, I know many people will argue and say, "Why wouldn't it be possible? A dragon slayer can be a dragon and a human at the same time, right?". That is a good point, but in Chapter 515, it was implied that once a person dragonizes, they become a dragon and that's the end of it. The only way to become "human" again is by taking on a human physique (which they are still technically a dragon). With that said, this makes me believe that a person cannot simultaneously be a dragon and a human (just like how Natsu cannot be a dragon and a demon at the same time).

By the way, because of this new information, I am leaning more towards the idea that Acnologia's human form is just a "physique". He is still a dragon deep down.



Further Thoughts

1. Seeds Merging

The part I'm confused about is why the seeds merging would cause Natsu to die. A possible explanation could be what I previously mentioned above. Since a person cannot be a dragon and a demon at the same time, they will cease to exist (this is way too vague for my liking though). Another possible explanation that has already been suggested is that curse power and magic power conflict with one another. But I don't think this is the case either because one is fueled by negative emotions, while the other is fueled by positive emotions. And a person can certainly have both qualities.

2. Dragonization

Another part of the chapter that caught my attention was the fact that the seeds cause dragon slayers to dragonize.


The panel above is pretty significant in my eyes because: If Dragon Force is NOT associated with the seed itself, then DF ≠ Dragonization. In addition, the term "darkness" appears once again. This raises several questions for me:
  • What exactly is it and how does one acquire it?
  • Is it present in all people or only slayers?
3. Demon Seed

Unlike others, I actually believe that the "demon seed" is quite literal. Igneel says, "Let's call it demons' seed." But he also says, "There's one more seed inside your body."


This page also brings up another question. How come Natsu's dragon seed started growing again? Igneel talks about the presence of the demon seed, but he never told us why that would affect the dragon seed. Natsu suggests that maybe it was because Igneel left his body, but we see in the page above that Igneel denies it. I can't come up with anything here to explain that.

Anyways, this sums up most of my thoughts. I'm pretty sure there will be more information in the upcoming chapters so I might post here again (if I find a need to). Otherwise, I wouldn't mind reading more theories or opinions from others.
 
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Brandish μ

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I'm assuming the demon seed is actually a thing as shown in the chapter, and give it a different perspective. We get a picture of both the dragon seed and demon seed.

The demon seed is black with a dark aura. This makes sense, if we think to what's happened with Gray. His heart has become blackened thank to overuse/side-effects of his magic. This darkness makes Gray stronger magically. Negative emotions fuel darkness, which is similar to how curse power works. For Natsu, the demon seed is similar what Gray's dark heart does for him. You could make the argument that Gray has a demon seed, and the dark heart = demon seed.

The dragon seed is white with a light aura. Now this doesn't neccesarily make sense, since Igneel also said there were darkness dragon slayers who then became dragons. So you could speculate that a dragon seed would turn out like a demon seed - Acnologia's known as 'Black Wing' or 'Black dragon' so it stands to reason that his dragon seed is black. However Natsu's dragon seed was countered by Igneel. I'm willing to bet that the dragon parents used light power/positive feelings to counter the darkness of the dragon seed.

With that in mind, it seems unlikely that the seeds fuse, since it's unprecedented that light and darkness can emulsify. Light and darkness are always talked about as seperate paths for magic. When August was talking about Larcade - who was born with the power of light - August noted that due to 'no love' Larcade wondered between light and darkness. So perhaps if light and darkness come together, that means death or cancelling. We know Natsu's not gonna die, so either he breaks the mold here, or he finds a way to use them both without fusing them.
 

Seven777

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They're gonna finish the fusion imo, and Natsu is gonna partly dragonize like that movie poster or whatever it is.
With that form he'll beat Acno, cause right now I cant see Acno going down in any other way. At the moment it doesnt seem like the 7 dragon slayers have a chance, unless Laxus and Cobra learn Dragon Force and we have a battle with 7 dragon slayers in Dragon Force vs Acno fight(which would be dope).
Otherwise the way i see it going down is the 6 dragons slayers(everyone except Natsu who'll be unconscious) will fight Acno, put up a fight but end up getting trashed. Then END/Dragonized Natsu will wake up having finished the fusion, save someone from a killing blow and fight Acno 1v1.
 

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I'm assuming the demon seed is actually a thing as shown in the chapter, and give it a different perspective. We get a picture of both the dragon seed and demon seed.

The demon seed is black with a dark aura. This makes sense, if we think to what's happened with Gray. His heart has become blackened thank to overuse/side-effects of his magic. This darkness makes Gray stronger magically. Negative emotions fuel darkness, which is similar to how curse power works. For Natsu, the demon seed is similar what Gray's dark heart does for him. You could make the argument that Gray has a demon seed, and the dark heart = demon seed.

The dragon seed is white with a light aura. Now this doesn't neccesarily make sense, since Igneel also said there were darkness dragon slayers who then became dragons. So you could speculate that a dragon seed would turn out like a demon seed - Acnologia's known as 'Black Wing' or 'Black dragon' so it stands to reason that his dragon seed is black. However Natsu's dragon seed was countered by Igneel. I'm willing to bet that the dragon parents used light power/positive feelings to counter the darkness of the dragon seed.

With that in mind, it seems unlikely that the seeds fuse, since it's unprecedented that light and darkness can emulsify. Light and darkness are always talked about as seperate paths for magic. When August was talking about Larcade - who was born with the power of light - August noted that due to 'no love' Larcade wondered between light and darkness. So perhaps if light and darkness come together, that means death or cancelling. We know Natsu's not gonna die, so either he breaks the mold here, or he finds a way to use them both without fusing them.
Wait..since when gray has a demon seed inside him..he's not a demon..he's a devil slayer..or maybe i just don't undetstand at all..only demon have that right ?
 

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Wait..since when gray has a demon seed inside him..he's not a demon..he's a devil slayer..or maybe i just don't undetstand at all..only demon have that right ?
Gray shouldn't have one unless he fully demonizing himself from his magic. Or if he did it would fester until he got enough darkness in his heart. Demon seeds seem more like you have to be born with it (Etherious all have them) while dragon you can attain by learning ds magic
 

Seven777

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It was implied Silver had a demon form, perhaps he obtained it through his use of DeS magic(since he shouldve been just a corpse)
 

HappyHawlucha

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The way I see it going is the antibodies the Dragons provided for the slayers leave the seeds in a dormant stage, so they will not turn into dragons under the circumstances that happened to Irene. However, with Natsu's problem the demon seed will fuse with the dragon seed and possibly reactivate the dragon seed sort of, causing the dragon-demon E.N.D thing to happen. The revelation of Irene's enchantment into Wendy could also cause some problems for Wendy's dragon seed, maybe being enchanted into Wendy's body causes some problems to arise with her seed, or Irene's origin as a dragon seed bearer could possibly cause Wendy's body to go under dragonification?
 

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Wait..since when gray has a demon seed inside him..he's not a demon..he's a devil slayer..or maybe i just don't undetstand at all..only demon have that right ?
Nah man not saying he definitely has one, but if we follow what happened with the dragon slayers there's at least a chance that Gray has a demon seed.

Dragons gave humans dragon power... and for some reason they got a dragon seed. Gray is a human who wields DeSM. It makes him demonise (the black marks). So he could have a seed inside him.

Etherious themselves probably don't have a demon seed imo, in the same way that a dragon probably doesn't have a dragon seed. For me, the way it's shown, seeds are only a product of dragon power being put in a human.

But there's so much mess here, Hiro could say something totally different next time I wouldn't be surprised.
 
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