Discussion Underrated and Overrated

[-Ken-]

In the new case, I agree completely with Kaoz on who is underrated and overrated.

About the HS, the ex 1st stringer are currently underrated according to your definition because they currently do not have a court. The rest seems fine.

 

[ybr99]

Toyama could return BJK at the start of camp easily. Why can't chitose do the same. With muga he can return it with lightning or another BJK. If it is impossible for chitose to return it he can hit shots so momo can't use BJK. Zero shiki drop shot Habu kamikushi abare dame or he can just spam fujis 5th counter gatekeeper and BJK won't get over the net. Momo won't be able to return chitoses serves anyways so I don't see how momo stands a chance.

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

With muga alone chitose is better

 

[-Ken-]

Tooyama is better than Chitose. Tooyama can beat #14 but I highly doubt Chitose will manage to do so. You can't say a player who is better than x can do it so x can do it as well.

 

[ybr99]

Toyama easily returned it if chitose knows it's coming can't he do something to return it?

 

[-Ken-]

It's out of his level. Yanagi knows Mitsuya from childhood and Yanagi is also a high tier player (in PoT) and he still have 0% chance of winning. BJK beat two people who are very close level to Mitsuya. If those two can't handle it, I don't see Chitose handling it either. Especially when he had trouble beating 3rd court before. 1st stringer>1st court>2nd court>3rd court(which seem to be where Chitose current level are).

 

[Kaoz]

Chitose actually returning BJK is probably farfetched, but Momoshiro isn't on the same level outside of BJK, so I think it's pretty possible that a combination of Saiki and Kamikakushi would do him in. Compare this page. Suzuki's stance is pretty similar to a BJK except that he's a bit closer to the net than Momoshiro would be in most cases. Suzuki's stats are also a bit higher than Momoshiro's. So I don't think it'd be odd for Momoshiro to have trouble with Kamikakushi as well and if you add Saiki on top of that he might very well lose.

---------- Post added at 09:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

HSers?

Fuwa is underrated, he's most certainly stronger than Hakamada at least. Other than that their list is pretty straight-forward.

Also, add Mizuki to underrated MSers. He's not great, but certainly better than Minami.

 

[-Ken-]

I won't say it's farfetch for Momoshiro to lose, but looking at the opponents that they beat and lose to and I say the first of saying Momoshiro is overrate and Chitose is underrate seems wrong.

At the very least, I would say it highly suggest that Momoshiro is more reliable in doubles than Chitose.

 

[Kaoz]

Doubles and singles are a bit different and it probably depends on the exact team compositions as well, but keep in mind that Tachibana and Chitose didn't use Synchro by choice and according to Tsuge they would've won if that hadn't happened. We're still not clear what exactly happened during the 18/19 match either (and for the record, I'm not interested in discussing it again, we're not going to change our minds either way).

But yeah, overall I'm ok with the way you put it.

 

[-Ken-]

Even if they would have won back then, a narrow win against 3rd court pair in my opinion is still different in terms of feat in my opinion. I think putting Chitose around that level is pretty accurate.

 

[Kaoz]

Sure. I don't think most of the 3rd court players are actually bad, so that doesn't bother me. But if you say 1st string > 1st court > 2nd court > 3rd court it makes the gap appear pretty big and that's what I have an issue with.

 

[Hardy]

Sengoku is overrated in PoT and underrated in NPoT imo.

The 2nd court is a joke, they are completely overrated.

Btw guys, I think we had agreed that BJK doesn't break wrists, so Momo wouldn't 1 shot Chitose. I think that the latter is quite underrated, Saiki is a hell of a move (but Momo improved 10 times more than him in NPoT, that's for sure).

---------- Post added at 04:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

We're still not clear what exactly happened during the 18/19 match either (and for the record, I'm not interested in discussing it again, we're not going to change our minds either way).

Lame '-'

 

[Kaoz]

Well, we can I guess, it's just not going to lead anywhere considering we've talked about it approximately a dozen times already. Neither side has anything resembling solid proof either and that's not going to change.

Also, agree on Sengoku actually.

 

[Hardy]

Well, we can I guess, it's just not going to lead anywhere considering we've talked about it approximately a dozen times already. Neither side has anything resembling solid proof either and that's not going to change.

Also, agree on Sengoku actually.

Well we do know that the match kept going after Momo used the first BJK (based on the looks he and Kenya had when they came back with the revolution crew and what Kenya said to Momo) and following our ¨the SSS is a reflecting ability¨ theory (or Sai's or wtv, but it makes a ton of sense) there is no reason why the HSers would get their wrists broken.

Of course you agree, Sengoku should be the MS captain '-'

 

[Kaoz]

No, that's not clear at all. From Hara's fanbook profile:

- He doesn't like carrying around things like bags, so he always carries his racket in the back of this clothes.

It's not explicitly stated, but the same almost certainly applies to Taira as well. So if they only had a single racket each on them, they would've been unable to continue the match after Momoshiro's Black Jack Knife destroyed their strings. The main reason this theory isn't foolproof is the way Momoshiro's face looks when they return, but that might very well be a symbolic battle scar. I mean, Oishi had one too and the twins don't actually attack the opponent's body like that.

 

[Hardy]

No, that's not clear at all. From Hara's fanbook profile:



It's not explicitly stated, but the same almost certainly applies to Taira as well. So if they only had a single racket each on them, they would've been unable to continue the match after Momoshiro's Black Jack Knife destroyed their strings. The main reason this theory isn't foolproof is the way Momoshiro's face looks when they return, but that might very well be a symbolic battle scar. I mean, Oishi had one too and the twins don't actually attack the opponent's body like that.

But even if the ¨they only have 1 racket¨ theory is true, it's still in favour of BJK not breaking wrists (and with that, being a hit and win move) ><

 

[Kaoz]

Did anyone actually say otherwise? Totally missed that. But yeah, agree.

 

[Hardy]

Well I understood that from this quote

No, Chitose arm will die as soon as he touch BJK and he will cries and lose the match.

or Phantron saying that BJK breaks strings or arms

The only way I can see Chitose beating Momoshiro is if he just rolls out of the way on a Black Jackknife, because Momoshiro's other stats doesn't seem to be particularly high and there's usually a limit to how many times you can use your power moves, though dodging power shot moves is probably against the law in the world of POT. Even if Chitose doesn't get his arm destroyed, he'd still run out of rackets for sure.

[tmod=Kaoz]My memory is the best.[/tmod]

 

[-Ken-]

It doesn't really matter. There's 3 ways you can look at it.


1. If it's a hit and win move, Momoshiro win.

2. If it's not a hit and win move, it shows that Momoshiro can hold his own against 1st stringer pair. Actually, it more shows that Momoshiro can come back from a behind victory against 1st stringer pair. Which is a better feats than going 7-6 against 3rd court pair.

3. All those are assuming Chitose carry more than 1 racquet? And I don't think it's mention anywhere that Chitose actually do so as well. Chitose might forfeit because he have no spare racquet as well. I just don't see things going in Chitose favor in any of these three ways.

 

[ybr99]

Chitose can
1. Predict exactly what is going to happen.
2. Can copy basically any move that he has ever seen.
Right now I don't see how momo can win. Chitose has to stop 1 move. All of momo's tricks are useless against saiki and his bullet serve and dunk smash are easily returned. All chitose has to worry about is BJK which he can dodge it every time. Momo has to stop more than 50 different moves which can't be returned with BJK.

 

[-Ken-]

Yeah, and despite the fact that he can do those things he still manage a narrow victory against 3rd court at best. Look at what Chitose is actually capable of instead of theorized what he can do. That's the definition of overrated. I need you to shows Chitose's feat that's more impressive than come back from behind victory against 1st stringer.

I only looks at character's REAL feats in the manga. Speculation are cool, but it leads to just fanboying about your favorite characters. Looking at feats in manga, Momoshiro just look ahead of Chitose right now.

Hey, I myself used to think Kintarou is underrated by the forum at one point in time. Let's just say Kintarou wasn't view as a very strong character back then. Of course, I knows about his potential since he was the ex-main character of PoT until Konomi decide to use Ryoma instead. And look where things are right now. (Although Kintarou still got some haters)

If Chitose is strong, I'll give him the credit of being strong. However, judging from his last feats, it's really not a good indicator.