Discussion Underrated and Overrated

Phantron

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
2,698
Reaction score
797
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I really don't see copying random useless moves makes you better than Fuji, and I hate Fuji.

I'd say Ryoma got worse after he had Muga. Before he was like indeed a wild card with an unpredictable level of power level. After Muga it's just like 'hey check out all these useless moves I learned that never does anything useful except sapping my strength at an astonishing rate.'
 

ChinkyCandie

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
2,206
Reaction score
238
Gender
Female
Country
Australia
Current Seigaku is weaker than Rikkaidai. Nationals Seigaku>Rikkaidai (for plot reasons). Without Tezuka and Ryoma, Seigaku went downhill. Why do you think 5 MSers were chosen from Rikkaidai? 3 from Shitenhoji? 2 from Seigaku. What does that tell you? Seigaku is now weak. My MS ranking still stands.
 

-Ken-

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
4,229
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Country
Thailand
Current Seigaku is weaker than Rikkaidai. Nationals Seigaku>Rikkaidai (for plot reasons). Without Tezuka and Ryoma, Seigaku went downhill. Why do you think 5 MSers were chosen from Rikkaidai? 3 from Shitenhoji? 2 from Seigaku. What does that tell you? Seigaku is now weak. My MS ranking still stands.
Tezuka doesn't leave Seigaku. His name is still there, and he graduated there later on after the event in PoT after events in SPoT, as seen in the short novel in the final volume of PoT manga. Echizen also is mention to go back there. Just because they weren't playing for Japan doesn't mean they change school.

But yes, still 5 Rikkai to 4 Seigaku. It's just that Tezuka and Ryoma>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone from Rikkai 10 times over.
 

ChinkyCandie

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
2,206
Reaction score
238
Gender
Female
Country
Australia
Those two are only stronger because they have PoP. No PoP = Yukimura > All Seigaku. Like I said, plot wise, they're only strong. Only reason.

Tezuka hasn't left Seigaku but he's not playing for Japan. My point.
 

-Ken-

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
4,229
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Country
Thailand
Like i say, rikkai are only strong because of plot as well. pop are just konomi way of stating those 2 are top players in pot
 

ChinkyCandie

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
2,206
Reaction score
238
Gender
Female
Country
Australia
Rikkaidai as a school is stronger than Seigaku, not individually. That's why 5 MSers were chosen compared to 2 from Seigaku.
 

-Ken-

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
4,229
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Country
Thailand
Rikkai as a school is stronger if you ignore the two strongest member of seigaku, yes.
 

ShadowHeart

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
6,215
Reaction score
3,039
Age
34
Country
England
Those two are only stronger because they have PoP. No PoP = Yukimura > All Seigaku. Like I said, plot wise, they're only strong. Only reason.

Tezuka hasn't left Seigaku but he's not playing for Japan. My point.
Not true even without POP Tezuka and Ryoma would beat Yukimura 6-0.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

-Ken-

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
4,229
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Country
Thailand
I'll like to note that Ryoma got chosen as representative despite his "breaking the rule" behavior which is a testament to his power over other representative, and actually Seigaku got 3 select that way. If Tezuka doesn't play for German, which is overall seemingly stronger team than Japan right now (Which would also suggest his power is over other representative in Japan), so no, they didn't play for Japan. But they got even more impressive feats than playing for japan.

But really though, Seigaku power is over Rikkai as a team it's not even funny. Tezuka and Ryoma alone are worth the ENTIRE rikkai team.

Of course, I'm not saying this without evidence. Let's look at Ryoma achievement of beating up 24 representative who are tentative #14 of USA in a row. To put it in perspective that's easier to see, that's 24 players who are potentially Hakamada, who is #14 in Japan, because Japan as a country is suggest in the manga to be a pretty weak country in tennis. To see how much stronger Hakamada is stronger than Rikkai team, he's stronger than Mitsuya, who beat Renji, THE 3 DEMON, with 100% certainty. That seems to suggest that Hakadama is stronger than most people in Rikkai except Yukimura and Sanada, the stronger members of the 3 demon.

Assuming players in Rikkai is on the same level as Hakamada, which is actually pretty unlikely and view them too high, and for sake of preventing future discussion, let's just assue Niou=2Hakamada. That's 7 off the list, which is pretty easy for Ryoma to handle. Then he still have stamina to play 17 more Hakamada, so I doubt he'll have problem playing against Sanada or Yukimura. He doesn't nee to use PoP. Glowing Shot is enough to beat them. But if it's not, PoP all but ensure that Ryoma can beat them anyways.

Then Tezuka can handle the other player.. There, 2 members of Seigaku> entire Rikkai. The rest of Seigaku are simply the bonus power that Seigaku as a team have over Rikkai.
 

Anera

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
1,157
Reaction score
665
Gender
Female
Country
France
Not true even without POP Tezuka anf Ryoma would beat Yukimura 6-0.
Aren't you underestimating Yukimura ? :hmm Though I agree Ryoma and Tezuka would beat him, but not with a too severe score.
 

ShadowHeart

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
6,215
Reaction score
3,039
Age
34
Country
England
Aren't you underestimating Yukimura ? :hmm Though I agree Ryoma and Tezuka would beat him, but not with a too severe score.
Nope that's where Tezuka/Ryoma are at now.
 

-Ken-

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
4,229
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Country
Thailand
Aren't you underestimating Yukimura ? :hmm Though I agree Ryoma and Tezuka would beat him, but not with a too severe score.
Well, it depends on how strong you think Yukimura is compare to Sanada I suppose. I haven't seen a tier list that put Tezuka and Echizen lower than Tanagaghima (Although i've seen people that suggest they are in the same tier). Tanegashima solo Sanada and Akutsu 6-0 pretty much. If you think Yukimura is significantly stronger than Sanada, then sure. If not, 6-0 is the result.

And let's not forget Echizen actually 6-0 Yukimura without Yukimura scoring a single point in the national final. That's before the glowing shot/10 ball at once upgrade. And to be honest, I do not think Dream Yips is a bigger upgrade than glowing shot.

Anyways, on topic, from what I read here, Rikkai look overrated to me. They're strong, but hardly that strong as people like them to be.
 
Last edited:

ChinkyCandie

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
2,206
Reaction score
238
Gender
Female
Country
Australia
Well, if you haven't read the manga, Yukimura was beating Ryoma until Ryoma unlocked PoP. So, no, they will not defeat Yukimura without PoP 6-0. Besides, Yukimura never lost a match until PoP Ryoma. They will suffer yips then dream yips.

The ranking is like this: Ryoma + Tezuka > Rikkaidai > every other Seigaku member. If Rikkaidai were to have a rematch with Seigaku now without Ryoma and Tezuka, they would all lose, except to maybe Akaya.
 

Phantron

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
2,698
Reaction score
797
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Ryoma and Tezuka have fairly unpredictable power levels. They're not even stronger than Yukimura and likely not Sanada depending on which point of the story you're looking at. For example, in NPOT we have Tezuka getting PoP so that seems like he ought to be way stronger, right? Except Atobe for some reason thought he was totally ready to take on Tezuka after he went to the Germany team, and Fuji was like 'is this how powerful Tezuka has become?', which implies that apparently PoP Tezuka was no big deal to either of them since that's the last known data point for anyone on team Japan has to work with, but Tezuka's improvement while on the Germany team surpassed what people thought how powerful Tezuka was. Likewise Ryoma went from a guy with all 3 doors at the end of POT back to a guy who apparently can only troll extremely weak players by mimicking their moves. Until he learned the glowing shot his biggest accomplishment in NPOT is doing 10 at once which would put him at Akutsu's level, which is quite high in NPOT but definitely not better than everyone on Rikkai.

If you take Ryoma and Tezuka at their highest then Seigaku is probably unstoppable, but power levels change randomly in POT. Today's invincible Tezuka can be surpassed by any random guy tomorrow, and the day after that he'd be invincible again.
 

-Ken-

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
4,229
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Country
Thailand
Well, if you haven't read SPoT yet, Ryoma earned Sweet Spot, Glowing Shot, Glowing shot in combination with his move, and he also have pinnacle of hard work and wisdom that steals points away from Yukimura. Yes, he would 6-0 Yukimmura

And why should they have a rematch without Echizen and Tezuka, exactly? If Rikkai have rematch without Yukimura and Sanada, Seigaku would also crush them like babies.

Fuji is still also very strong. I actually of the people who ask Kaoz to up Niou to same tier as Fuji but I think Kaoz just disagree back then (this is after Fuji latest match)?

Golden Pair most likely will still be beating champion pair into next week since champion pair doesn't gain anything that can help them really, as Bunta doesn't much offensive capabilities to earn from Wonder Castle (and the score from before was really 6-0 if you look at the time Golden pair doesn't play around because Rikkai #1 is such a noob, so even assuming that there's an upgrade it have to really be a big upgrade to up score from 6-0 to a win).

Kaidoh wasn't a small fry either. He plays around with Renji, the big 3 of Rikkai, and Akaya alone. And as far as I know if the line-up wasn't rigged Sanada and Yukimura wouldn't be playing against him.

It just looks like Seigaku would have win 4-0. Rikkai is only a stronger team if you

1. Don't count Seigaku strongest members
2. Tick off the line-up in Rikkai favor

Let's look at both team representative.

1. Echizen
1. Yukimura- weaker than Echizen

2.Tezuka
2. Sanada- weaker than Tezuka

3. Fuji
3. Niou-got beaten by Fuji before

4. Oishi
4. Bunta- got crush 6-0 even as doubles specialist with partner he was good with as #1 pair in the national

5. Akaya- No one to compare it to. Probably get chosen as Shiraishi partner or his "potential". Get stomp by Kaidoh and run away to win by attacking Kaidoh partner instead. Only to get Kaidoh activate the same techniques and luckily win because Inui stop Kaidoh from using the tech.

It's hard to see Rikkai as a stronger team when all their representative would get stomp by equivalent in Seigaku.
 
Last edited:

ChinkyCandie

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
2,206
Reaction score
238
Gender
Female
Country
Australia
My entire point was no Tezuka/Ryoma = Seigaku is weak. I don't know what you're trying to justify by saying the other Seigaku members are any good.
Fuji only defeated Niou because of plot. If he didn't win, Seigaku would be nationals runner-ups, not the winners. Seigaku are by far the most overrated school because of plot. Rikkaidai would be overrated if they were the main school, but they're not. The central will always be overrated in terms of their plot powerups and how annoying their personality is.

Why am I excluding Ryoma and Tezuka? They're not playing for Japan. This entire time, I'm talking about the MS representatives for Japan. I don't think anyone even saw that. Seigaku is still weak. That's why 5 Rikkaidai, and 3 Shitenhoji were picked instead of the rest of Seigaku. Finally get it?
 

Phantron

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
2,698
Reaction score
797
Gender
Male
Country
United States
If you want to talk Seigaku vs Rikkai now? Assuming the exact same lineup as before.

S1: I always thought Yukimura's power was kind of bogus because he's got nothing if his yips doesn't work. Ryoma was always stronger than him even without PoP if yips didn't kick in, which is pretty hilarious that you'd get scared of someone after seeing that you're about to score the next point with Saiki. I'm guessing Tezuka can pull the same trick too even without PoP.

S2: Niou is just a special case because whenever he loses it's just that he can't copy well enough even though recently we're told he can copy Tezuka almost as well as the real thing. I'm just going to call this a draw even though Niou should be able to beat virtually anybody by copying someone like Volk. All he has to do is go to an ATP tour when Volk (or someone better) is playing and then nobody outside the pros would remotely have a chance of beating him.

S3: Based on their displayed powers Sanada would win this very easily because as soon as Sanada realizes that he just has to hit the ball straight down instead of left/right/up with Black Aura that means every shot Sanada hits must be volleyed which, even in POT, is a very weak shot. Now since Sanada is a guy who plays by some strange code of honor (maybe hitting the ball straight down is considered dirty) maybe he won't do that and then get spanked by Tezuka. But Sanada playing 'dirty' will always win, even in POT. You just can't stop Black Aura if he's hitting the ball straight down every time.

D1: I think Rikkai's D1 is greatly overrated and they certainly haven't displayed anything that'd live up to a reputation of the #1 doubles in the nation. Heck, Marui went to look for a new partner in the U17 camp. Golden Pair is kind of overrated but synchro will still be more than enough to win.

D2: If we're using NPOT then Kaidoh has somehow lost some of his moves and is much worse compared to nationals, so Seigaku will lose badly because their team was worse than what they had before (which they still lost) even if we assumed the Rikkai D2 has not improved any (and they did).

So that'd be 2-2-1 and I guess it comes down to which Niou Fuji happened to draw.
 

-Ken-

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
4,229
Reaction score
641
Gender
Male
Country
Thailand
Sanada won't beat Tezuka. You're overrating Sanada by far if you think he had a chance. He got 6-0 last time by Shuuji, and will get stomp by PoP Tezuka as well.

Well, I'll give him some credit though. Maybe he'll pull off 1 triple clutch and score one point because of fluke? Yeah, that sounds about right.

It's about 3-1 Seigaku if you use the same line-up, with Fuji match being unsure, and can make 4-1 or 3-2, but either way Seigaku would still win. But even then I'll like to see you argue of moving Niou up to B tier in the tier list thread if you think he stand a chance against Fuji.
 
Last edited:

Phantron

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
2,698
Reaction score
797
Gender
Male
Country
United States
In POT they attempted to get around Niou being utterly invincible by saying he can't copy certain guys 100% but he has surpassed that. Even if we limit to guys only in the Seigaku/Rikkai line up all he has to do is copy Ryoma and he'd win easily. Tezuka would also win very comfortably against Fuji, and Yukimura too depending on whether certain characters suddenly have immunity to yips or not, though he can always just try using Yukimura for a few games and see if yips works and if not he can go back to someone else.

Sanada would pretty much own anyone if he isn't too stupid to realize that you shouldn't hit the ball straight up in the middle if you can literally change the ball's direction in mid air. At the very least he should hit it to a corner and then hit it toward the out of court direction as that'd force the opponent to return from a very awkward angle, and that's if they can reach the ball on time at all. Of course all he really has to do is hit the ball straight down (he can hit it left/right/up, so no reason why down is an invalid direction) and then the ball would bounce twice and be an automatic point for him and this means his opponent can never get a full swing in against anything he hits as they'd have to volley every shot back. I don't know if it's intended but it's eerily similar to how he can beat Tezuka Phantom any time with but just refused to out of principle.
 

ybr99

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
114
Reaction score
2
Age
31
Gender
Hidden
Country
United States
From what you are saying toyama would be the best in japan because he has 10 balls, PoP, his super serve, and his fireball shot. Ryoma only has glowing shot while toyama has better stats and a bunch of moves that are only a litte worse than glowing shot so toyama is better.

---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------

Or niou because he can copy anyone
 
Top