Discussion Upcoming power-ups discussion

[Fox666]

It seems plenty of people believe Luffy will get to the level of a Yonko after Wano, and Zoro will fight one of the commanders. But I don't think they will there yet.

Everything points out that Luffy is not going to fight alone against Kaido. The author himself admitted even he doesn't how Kaido will be defeated. Besides, the series is not over yet. If Luffy surpassed the strongest creature, there would be no more obstacles. There are other Yonko or Marine Admirals to overcome.

What I expect to happen is to Luffy to get on a level above the Yonko commanders. At this moment, even if Luffy win a fight against one, he's on the verge of death. And he was defeated by Kaido instantly. So there's still a lot of room for growth.

Regarding Zoro, some fans seems to have very exaggerated expectations. Because of Mihawk title as the "Strongest Swordman", they say Zoro will be a match for the Yonko by the end of the series. This is controversial, but all official information points out that Mihawk is not on the same tier as Shanks. The Yonko were called the strongest pirates several times though the series. Mihawk had an even fight against one of White Beard commanders in the Marineford war, and the databook reinforce this. And Zoro ultimate goal is to surpass Mihawk, and if Mihawk is a match for a Yonko commander... Zoro is not going to get there yet.

Personally I find it more fitting for Zoro or Sanji to reach the level of the commanders by the end of the series. They shouldn't be the ones to defeat the commanders on Wano, when there are so many allies on that level such as Inuarashi, Asura, and in special Jinbe. In Whole Cake Island arc we have witnessed a tier for them to overcome, the strongest fighters of the Yonko besides the commanders, like Perosperos or Oven.

 

[ShadowHeart]

Zoro will surpass prime Rayleigh who's undoubtedly Yonko level.

 

[thedude]

It seems plenty of people believe Luffy will get to the level of a Yonko after Wano, and Zoro will fight one of the commanders. But I don't think they will there yet.

Everything points out that Luffy is not going to fight alone against Kaido. The author himself admitted even he doesn't how Kaido will be defeated. Besides, the series is not over yet. If Luffy surpassed the strongest creature, there would be no more obstacles. There are other Yonko or Marine Admirals to overcome.

What I expect to happen is to Luffy to get on a level above the Yonko commanders. At this moment, even if Luffy win a fight against one, he's on the verge of death. And he was defeated by Kaido instantly. So there's still a lot of room for growth.

Regarding Zoro, some fans seems to have very exaggerated expectations. Because of Mihawk title as the "Strongest Swordman", they say Zoro will be a match for the Yonko by the end of the series. This is controversial, but all official information points out that Mihawk is not on the same tier as Shanks. The Yonko were called the strongest pirates several times though the series. Mihawk had an even fight against one of White Beard commanders in the Marineford war, and the databook reinforce this. And Zoro ultimate goal is to surpass Mihawk, and if Mihawk is a match for a Yonko commander... Zoro is not going to get there yet.

Personally I find it more fitting for Zoro or Sanji to reach the level of the commanders by the end of the series. They shouldn't be the ones to defeat the commanders on Wano, when there are so many allies on that level such as Inuarashi, Asura, and in special Jinbe. In Whole Cake Island arc we have witnessed a tier for them to overcome, the strongest fighters of the Yonko besides the commanders, like Perosperos or Oven.

Oda was saying he didn't know how Luffy would beat Kaido back in 2017. I think by now he's figured it out, and my hunch is "multiple people fight him for a bit, then Luffy with his seastone power up + advanced haki (Rayleigh and Katakurri) = beat up Kaido."

I think in the end it will be one on one, but I can see a bit of a team battle, whether with his crew or with the other Super Novas.

I see Zoro and Sanji potentially fighting the commanders. Sanji already beat one of the guys just under the commanders quite easily, so I'm not sure fighting another of the flying 6 is enough for the arc. Same for Zoro, they both need something "more". The rest of the crew should be approaching headliner level at least. Mid-tier, not Hawkins level though.

 

[M3J]

Luffy won't be Yonkou level after this arc, but he'll be closer. Sanji and Zoro will at least be a Yonkou Commander level though while Luffy should be above that. I think Jinbei could be between Zoro/Sanji and Luffy, if not nearly equal to Luffy.

 

[Kato756]

I see this arc as the "Enies Lobby" arc of the new world.

Everyone will level up. Ofc, that does not mean that people will become *designated powerlevel* just after Wano.
Example: Zoro gets fucked by King, bleeds a fuckton, manages to beat him with a new atk.
IE Zoro managed to reach that Yonkou Commander Power Level, but still hasn´t mastered it

So as for estimates:

Zoro vs King
Sanji vs Queen
Chopper vs Pleasures (or whatever the highest rank is after the Headliners)
Nami vs Headliner (not flying six)
Robin vs Ninjas (same level as nami)
Brook vs Flying Six
Franky vs Flying Six
Jinbei vs Jack (I mean Jinbei should be close to this level if he fought Ace to a standstill)
Usoop vs ???

 

[thedude]

I see this arc as the "Enies Lobby" arc of the new world.

Everyone will level up. Ofc, that does not mean that people will become *designated powerlevel* just after Wano.
Example: Zoro gets fucked by King, bleeds a fuckton, manages to beat him with a new atk.
IE Zoro managed to reach that Yonkou Commander Power Level, but still hasn´t mastered it

So as for estimates:

Zoro vs King
Sanji vs Queen
Chopper vs Pleasures (or whatever the highest rank is after the Headliners)
Nami vs Headliner (not flying six)
Robin vs Ninjas (same level as nami)
Brook vs Flying Six
Franky vs Flying Six
Jinbei vs Jack (I mean Jinbei should be close to this level if he fought Ace to a standstill)
Usoop vs ???

I'd like to see Robin vs flying six, she's actually quite strong. I'd be OK with her fighting the Ninjas if she took them all on at once. And Chopper too, Chopper vs Drake! Dinosaur vs Monster Point! I dont think it happens, but I think that would be much more fun than him vs one of the Pleasures, who lets be honest, are just fodder.

Also, Jack is fighting a rematch vs Nekomomushi and Inuarashi. But they will fight him together after he handicapped them by cutting off their limbs. Jack has to go down to a Mink after what he did (similar to Diamond vs Kryos).

 

[Kato756]

I'd like to see Robin vs flying six, she's actually quite strong. I'd be OK with her fighting the Ninjas if she took them all on at once. And Chopper too, Chopper vs Drake! Dinosaur vs Monster Point! I dont think it happens, but I think that would be much more fun than him vs one of the Pleasures, who lets be honest, are just fodder.

Also, Jack is fighting a rematch vs Nekomomushi and Inuarashi. But they will fight him together after he handicapped them by cutting off their limbs. Jack has to go down to a Mink after what he did (similar to Diamond vs Kryos).

Yeah I should have specified, I meant Robin´s and Choppers as 1vMany scenario

 

[thedude]

Yeah I should have specified, I meant Robin´s and Choppers as 1vMany scenario

I'm fine with that. I still think all SH should fight top ranked people only, so even then the Pleasures seem like fodder. Every arc they've fought named officers when they were around, so fighting guys Brook and Sanji one shotted in Zou just seems like a waste of their time. Flying 6 or bust!

 

[HereNThere]

After Wano, I expect the crew to be substantially more powerful, but, I'm assuming, not quite Yonkou level just yet.

It's hard to say who will land where, but Luffy will obviously be the closest to an individual Yonkou's strength. He'll be on the path where he can actually be a decent contender for Pirate King.

Zoro is on a similar path. This should be his time to fight a Yonkou Commander as his end goal is, arguably, a Yonkou level opponent. So he's a bit behind Luffy, but on a similar track. There is also Orochi, but we don't know if he's actually strong or a straight up gag.

Sanji is a bit hard to gauge. He's usually keeping up with Luffy and Zoro, but he doesn't really have a clear trajectory for a fight. He could end up fighting a Commander as well, which I'd enjoy, but given the number of characters on both sides that are going to see action, it's kinda difficult to tell who he can fight. I expect him to fight a strong opponent either way.

Everyone else will probably take on Headliners, Gifters, Ninjas, Charlottes, or whatever else pops up.

 

[nik87]

I expect Luffy to be slightly above YC1 level, being able to fight them comfortably in G4 form. Getting closer to Admiral rank but still not there.
Zoro should be around YC1 level, very hard to gauge him due to his One-Slice type of fights but he should swim in those YC1 waters.
Sanji should be able to fight top commanders but as an underdog clearly.
Jinbe should be relatively comfortable in YC1 tier.
Franky is someone I can see quite close to commander tier, comfortable in the tier under commanders.
I expect great things from Chopper in this arc, he has to take on someone powerful in 1vs1, someone from Flying 6(Drake excluded).
Robin should be able to take out someone from Flying 6 as well with great difficulty(Drake excluded).
Same for Nami, Usopp and Brook.

 

[kkck]

Well, at a minimum it is safe to say luffy is about to get a quick but powerful powerup, much in the same way he got a cheap powerup while completing an optional sidequest in WCI (katakuri). And the powerup was enough for him to be able to go toe to toe with katakuri in spite of how drawn out the fight was and how exhausted he was through literally all of it.

Now, katakuri was in context an important player in the new world's criminal underworld given his position as big mom's number 2. His position is equivalent to king's or marcos (even if his influence is smaller than either's). And in a battle between yonko at least he'd certainly face either of them. So if luffy is getting a color of armor powerup due to queen's idiocy then at a minimum luffy is going to be at a point where he can defeat a top yonko officer with some comfort. Based on WCI it does seem like yonko tend to have a substantial power lead over their number 2 so its hard to imagine luffy getting there yet but I daresay luffy at a minimum is going to get enough of a boost that a fight with a yonko won't be nearly as one sided.

Also worth noting, in dressrosa luffy had the haki to use gear 4 for some time and then needed at least 10 minutes to recover. By whole cake island that 10 minute resting period was virtually gone and could even continue fighting for insanely long amounts of times even after using gear 4. And while his color of observation haki improved it kinda seemed like luffy also got a general boost to the rest of his haki as he became increasingly more capable of matching katakuri without necessarily using gear 4. When the fight started luffy couldn't touch katakuri even with gear 4 but as it advanced he managed to keep katakuri at bay with only gear 2 and 3. Odds are katakuri's own exhaustion played into this of course but luffy handling katakuri's armor haki with his own at that point was still telling considering that earlier luffy simply couldn't do it.

Anyways, luffy has already been training while wearing kairoseki... The extended exposure to the energy drain and physical effort while under it seem like they have a pretty good chance of having resulted in an increase to luffy's basic physical abilities and also sounds like something which could potentially increase luffy's haki. He'd be basically overcoming an energy drain through sheer force of will after all. That basically screams haki training. And now it seems like he will focus on his armor haki if his rayleigh flashback is an indication of anything. I am guessing the payoff here will be seeing luffy removing the colar by doing what rayleigh did to camie all those years ago to release her.

As for the results.... Well, at a minimum oda is going for an increase in armor haki. But as we saw during WCI arc this will probably have implications for all of luffy's haki. Odds are that the amount of haki luffy has will get to a point where he can from now on use gear 4 casually. Maybe as casually as he uses gears 2-3. I am curious as to whether the kairoseki training will also have implications for his conqueror's haki... Now, if oda is going for a type of haki per arc then it means luffy will likely get a chance to take his conqueror's haki to the next level at a minimum following this arc. Maybe taking his conqueror's haki to the next level will be what places luffy among the yonko's ranks. That said, I would find that development somewhat strange on account of conqueror's haki at this point in the story not really doing anything useful. Unless figuratively sneezing enemies into defeat counts as something when it only works on people you could literally sneeze into defeat...

 

[Fox666]

When the fight started luffy couldn't touch katakuri even with gear 4 but as it advanced he managed to keep katakuri at bay with only gear 2 and 3;

Luffy did plummeted Katakuri with Bounce Man when he lost control of his future vision...

 

[kkck]

Luffy did plummeted Katakuri with Bounce Man when he lost control of his future vision...

That's not really relevant to my point. Sure, luffy touched him when katakuri's haki suddenly stopped working but even that didn't really last much. And later on luffy could keep up with katakuri even though katakuri's haki was fully active.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

In this thread I would like us to discuss potential power-ups for characters irregardless of their affiliation (e.g. SH pirates, yonko crews, shichibukai, marines, revolutionaries etc).

Weird that I couldn't find an already existing thread for power-ups specifically, but well, there's a first time for everything...

I'd ask you to be as specific as possible in order for this thread to have less commonalities with power level/character discussions.

My idea:

Luffy will learn to use air that he inflates his body with in conjunction with force field haki to create haki air cannons. He'll also be able to mix it with red-hawk-ish flames, which will make these attacks even stronger. Can be used while in gear 3rd/4th.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Usopp gets a sogeking raid suit.
Zoro will summon Ryuma and former Swordsmen through the hakiinfused black blades. Which will be his true Ashura.
Luffys Awakening will turn objects to rubber that grace him without a strong enough haki. Sword -> Useless Rubbersword.

 

[nik87]

1. Luffy will spam Haki blasts with Snakeman form.
2. Zoro will open his eye revealing some Observation upgrade. Asura form should be more common.
3. Sanji will find new functions of RS. He will spam Haki blasts from his kicks. Some specific branch of CoO upgrade.
4. Franky's Shogun will modify itself and shape around Franky's body providing a battle suit. He will incorporate sea stone parts.
5. Chopper will discover a new hybrid form, more optimal for hand to hand combat and more agile than Monster Point.
6. Brook will start using Hardening and will start using his soul powers combined with swordsmanship.
7. Robin will learn Hardening too and she will be able to produce more doubles.
8. Nami will awaken Observation and will have some powerful stuff inside Clima tact.
9. Usopp will get a Hammer for close combat and giants helmet with horns to impale enemies.
10. Jinbe is powerful enough, he just needs to show up and finally join the crew.

Spoiler: usopp'n horns

 

[McNuss]

1. Luffy: Better CoA (Confirmed), probably something CoC, Awakening (will turn the environment into rubber), Voice of All Things
2. Zoro: Will get the Nidai Kitetsu, why else feature this sword.
3. Nami: Already had had two power-ups and is broken af with Zeus, there won't be more.
4. Usopp: Will always reveal new gadgets, but there won't be a direct power-up anymore as he already got CoO
5. Sanji: Already had his power-up, there will be no additional power-up.
6. Chopper: Probably true Awakening, making the Rumble Ball obsolete.
7. Robin: She won't have a power-up as she is not a fighter, but she is hinted to be already pretty strong (stronger than Cavendish)
8. Franky: Upgrade again after meeting Vegapunk. Will probably make the Shogun obsolote as this thing is actually way too clunky to draw to provide interesting fights.
9. Brook: I have no clue. Might learn some Music but that's not really interesting as Brook already is an 90 years old master musician so Oda can reveal him playing any hypno-song he likes with showing how he learned that Song.
10. Jinbe: Is stronger than Base Luffy based on VS Big Mom, so no need for a power-up.

 

[HereNThere]

Luffy: Mastery of CoA/Ryuo, Fruit Awakening, and probably something related to Color of Conqueror.
Zoro: Personal attainment of Black Blade sword, probably Wado. Potential attainment of flaming sword as requested during Fishman Island.
Sanji: Personal haki reveal probably. Maybe a Rankyaku variant. More Well Cooked variations for Diable Jambe. Raid Suit redesigned into real suit.
Nami: Zeus mixed with Weather Island tech that Usopp couldn't figure out. Maybe Raid Suit variant.
Robin: No idea. Haki hopefully.
Franky: No idea. Probably has more tech we don't know about.
Brook: Haki hopefully.
Chopper: No idea.
Usopp: Mastery of CoO and more pop seed reveals. Maybe Raid Suit variant.

 

[afromarco005]

Luffy: gear 5th is a transformation that pumps blood and vitamins into luffy's brain and he becomes intelligent and can process things around him and info much faster making it appear as if time has slowed down around him. Awakening gives luffy full control over his rubbery body which can be shaped into whatever Luffy wants ( shapes, modify body density, size, facial and body features, grow arms like katakuri, shrink expand etc)

Coby: Gets even stronger than garp, insane observation and armament combined with advanced rokushiki. Develops new techniques that no one thought of before becoming the new hero and genius of the marine.

Lucci: armament haki improving all of his attacks, improved brute strenght thanks to a hellish training now physically as strong as luffy.

Crocodile: improved durability, observation haki to dodge better with his logia, armament to deal with other logia.

Black Beard: Brute strenght improved, sea stone bullets for his pistols, infused haki+ gura or yami bullets. Armament haki to improve his durability. New uses of yami yami no mi to steal stuff from people. Improved knowledge and battle tactics.

Smoker: starts not being a sand bag.

Buggy: will use 10,5% of his power instead of the usual 2,3%

 

[Hrathgrath]

1. Luffy will spam Haki blasts with Snakeman form.
2. Zoro will open his eye revealing some Observation upgrade. Asura form should be more common.
3. Sanji will find new functions of RS. He will spam Haki blasts from his kicks. Some specific branch of CoO upgrade.
4. Franky's Shogun will modify itself and shape around Franky's body providing a battle suit. He will incorporate sea stone parts.
5. Chopper will discover a new hybrid form, more optimal for hand to hand combat and more agile than Monster Point.
6. Brook will start using Hardening and will start using his soul powers combined with swordsmanship.
7. Robin will learn Hardening too and she will be able to produce more doubles.
8. Nami will awaken Observation and will have some powerful stuff inside Clima tact.
9. Usopp will get a Hammer for close combat and giants helmet with horns to impale enemies.
10. Jinbe is powerful enough, he just needs to show up and finally join the crew.

Spoiler: usopp'n horns

I LOVE the idea of #1! #2 there HAS to be something up with his eye, because I seriously doubt Oda would blind him without a purpose, and if he did do it just for show I imagine he would have mentioned how it happened. #4 Isn’t shogun Franky already a battlesuit? Don’t get me wrong, I would like the idea of him using the wapometal to make it sorta like Ironman where it can have a bunch of configurations. #6 Again, isn’t he already using his soul with his attacks? #7 I like it! I think it would be pretty cool for her to do some Kage Bushin type stuff with her attacks. I wonder if haki would take away the weakness of her new limbs or whatever being vulnerable to her actual body.