Battle Uvogin vs Razor

[kkck]

Well, razor is without a doubt up for the challenge here but I would ultimately bet it all on good old uvo. Uvo is an intelligent fighter who excels at close range combat and has exceptional defense. Certainly razor's nen ball is an issue but I would argue uvo has it in him to avoid the attack. More so, razor's nen ball was only as strong as gon's rock so I would argue in this particular case uvo has the means to counter with his own big bang impact which should by all intents and purposes be much stronger than gon's rock. I wouldn't rate the nen dolls very highly to be honest. They are a tax on razor's ken as far as we saw and they limit the overall strength of his nen ball. I guess they could have some uses but they could never really actually hurt uvo IMO. Either razor uses small critters to distract uvo or he uses really big ones that can actually hold their ground. Although I do think that small distractions are the only thing worth doing here, anything else would be a waste of nen.

 

[Phantron]

You can't just compare total damage because Razor's projectiles appears to explode. Ko type attacks gets shredded by explosion type because you can only defend the area you've Ko around so that means the rest of your body will just get blown away. I'm aware that Gon conveniently always avoid this fate (e.g. he puts Ko on on his hand to defend against Razor and gets knocked back, even though what should've happened is the force of the impact should've tore his leg off because he can't use any aura around his legs) but we're not talking about the main character of HXH who cannot die here.

If the top Spiders are roughly supposed to be equal tier, then Razor's fight against Hisoka shows he's clearly above the Spider's tier in terms of overall strength. That is, Razor and Hisoka are both exactly 1 away from Reinforcement but we can see Hisoka cannot safely defend against Razor just throwing a ball (pure Reinforcement) head on. Razor basically fights as if he's a Reinforcement user of the Spider's tier, except he isn't a Reinforcement user. That's pretty much an insurmountable advantage. His skill is extremely high too as pointed out by Biscuit. He's literally supposed to be a boss character compared to Spiders who are definitely not (when have you ever heard of 13 bosses traveling together?)

I don't know why people always talk about the intangibles, especially since Razor probably has more of it anyway (it took one of the greatest Hunter to capture him). About the only thing Ubogin has going for him is that he doesn't fear his death, while Razor may have grown overconfident due to spending a lot of time in GI. That is, it sure doesn't look like he ever thought about risking his life or even take any serious chances while fighting them, so perhaps that will hold him back a little bit.

 

[kkck]

Hisoka was fighting razor on razor's terms though. They were playing a game clearly designed for razor to have a massive advantage by having his particular abilities work to the maximum. In turn other characters had to improvise most of the time with what they had. Gon's rock only worked at specific points and a couple of them came at great risk, killua had nothing, bisk had nothing, goreinu had a convenient ability but skill placed him at a severe disadvantage. Hisoka had an ability which was convenient but as we know it is not too good for straight offense or defense in most cases (even if it did won the game). In an actual fight I doubt razor would even vaguely appear to have the overwhelming advantage he appeared to have over everyone during the game even if he is a high level nen user.

As for the spiders, the whole point about them is that they are all supposed to be 13 insanely strong people (although some more than others). As far as nen users go they are effectively 13 boss level characters working together, that is why the group is so universally feared.

Does razor's attack always explode? I have my doubts about it doing so in normal situations. We saw the speedboat exploding however that could easily have been due to the speedboat itself and not the nen. Razor's nen ball exploding would have the implication that he transforms his nen into something with explosive qualities, something which the manga has neglected as far as I can tell.

 

[mousiehamster]

I don't think the dodgeball game conferred any great advantage to Razor to be honest. For one thing instead of gathering a bunch of awesome teammates he has to summon nen devils himself which take up his nen output. Another problem is that the act of throwing the ball fast and hard may involve drawing from the reinforcement domain rather than emission. The only ability he has that is tailor made for the game is the ability to curve the ball but you can see from the way he throws it that he imparts spin on the ball so that's a technical thing rather than hatsu specific advantage. The entire team consisting solely of Razor is also another disadvantage because as an individual Razor can only have so many abilities. Many of them are going to share the same theme, most of which are going to be centered around the Nen discipline he majors in. In other words, predictability. On the other hand, the opposing team will almost always be different people with distinct abilities. You can see how much of a pain in the ass it is to face all sorts of weird hatsus with different properties.

 

[tupadre97]

Razor would destroy him

 

[KingOfNight]

Destroy? No. Not happening.

 

[tupadre97]

Razor is highly overrated. I'd give this to Uvogin easily. Razor is on the same level as the Phantom Troupe (if not below). Unless his Emission attack is 3 times stronger than a Bazooka, then I don't see him bothering Uvo.

What Uvo lossed to Kurapika who only had six months of training with Nen. He doesn't stand a chance against a master like Razor. Razor is probably even stronger than Biscuit at full strength, he's even fought Ging b4. There's really no way I can see Uvo winning against him.

 

[KingOfNight]

What Uvo lossed to Kurapika who only had six months of training with Nen. He doesn't stand a chance against a master like Razor. Razor is probably even stronger than Biscuit at full strength, he's even fought Ging b4. There's really no way I can see Uvo winning against him.

Uvo is an elite Master of his own right. Kurapika at that time was as masterful as any, not to mention having a strong resolve and a broken ability. Razor himself stated that the Ryodan Members were a "gathering of amazingly powerful Nen users."

 

[kkck]

Uvo showed he was a proficient and powerful fighter, the only reason kurapica won was because kurapica literally wasted away his potential to develop techniques which he pledged he would only use against a spider along with one of the more broken specialization nens we have seen. Razor is an excellent fighter but by no means he has something over the spiders. Even in best case scenarios he would be on the level with them. Also, how overwhelming he appeared during the game is not something that would necessarily be entirely relevant in an actual fight. As dangerous as Razor is, the fact of the matter is that most of what we saw of him involved a game where his abilities were exceptionally useful and virtually everyone else was at a huge disadvantage in comparison. An actual fight would not bode as well as the game for him, there are no rules which favor him (not saying the game was unfair in any ways, just that the game was perfect for someone with razor's skillset).

 

[REN KOUEN]

unless someone was set up like kurapika, they are going to struggle with uvo

two things lead to kurapikas victory, his awesome pre-planned abilities for the spider, and equally important

his emperor time ability he gains when his eyes turn scarlet that allow him 100% proficiency in all nen categories

 

[Demonspeed]

Some of you are really downplaying Kurapika's victory. Yes, Emperor Time is very powerful but it's his ability, it's not as if the match was unfair.

Before the fight, Kurapika knew Uvo's Hatsu and Uvo was aware that he should avoid Chain Jail at all costs, even when he was kidnapped he had plenty of time to think about Kurapika abilities but even in the case he would have understood Kurapika is a Specialist I don't see how it could have affected the fight in a significant way. It's the same for Kurapika, it's easy to find out what is Uvo's ability.

They fought and Kurapika was significantly faster than him, he managed to damage Uvo with kicks a punches, endured his BBI. Kurapika provoked Uvo so he would use his full power but Uvo was already trapped by Chain Jail. Kurapika is a better fighter than Uvo overall, despite Uvo being a veteran fighter. Emperor Time is very powerful but who can blame him? It's his ability, Uvo won against the Shadow Beasts thanks to his BBI, it's the same thing.

EDIT: Now about Uvo VS Razor

I already said it before but those kind of matchups are one of the reason i really want to see a fight between a strong Enhancer and a strong Emitter. I must say among all the 5 regular categories, I think Emission is at the best place: They are better and stronger at long range while being able to use Enhancement, the strongest category for offense and defense at 80% and Manipulation, who permits them to control their attacks at 80% as well. From what we have seen, Enhancers rely on CQC, it means the distance is very important in those kind of fights. During the GI boxing game, Gon's teammate won the guy with the Warp Punch by CQC, but it worked because that guy was weak.

Razor is physically strong, has a strong aura, Nen balls, and the 14 Devils. Uvo's attacks are without a doubt stronger than Razor but Razor can hit him with his Devils, he is also able to make them disappear and combine them, Uvo is durable but the 14 Devils hit will hurt him for sure, their categories are near, the Devils are Nen creatures. To win, Uvo would need to safely use BBI without being touched by Razor's Devils. It's very hard and I don't think a full BBI could beat him(again, because of their categories and if he uses BBI at full power the rest of his body would be vulnerable, Razor is able to create a Devil and injure him significantly, like during the fight between Feitan and Zazan,who is not even an Emitter) at least Razor has no healing abilities like Kurapika. I hardly see Uvo winning against him.

 

[Phantron]

Razor throwing a ball normally can break Hisoka's fingers even when he defended properly and avoided the direct impact. Throwing a ball is a Reinforcement type attack (Emission would be throwing an aura blast). If Ubogin is supposed to be stronger than this then you're basically saying he can pick up a rock, throw it at Hisoka and it'd snap his arm even if Hisoka defended properly, and that just seems outright impossible.

Razor's overall strength is far above the Spider tier and it neutralizes the advantage of Ubogin being a Reinforcement user. This is actually a pretty consistent problem in HXH. You rarely see two people of equal tier fight each other. The closest thing might be Zeno versus Kuroro, and that's still a one way beatdown. If Zeno was not pressed for time, all he'd have to do is spam his ranged attack until Kuroro runs out of AP, because Kuroro obviously can't beat Zeno hand to hand, and Zeno's range allows him to bypass any tricks Kuroro might have. Yes, Zeno said the outcome of a battle to the death is uncertain, but that's because the outcome of any fight to the death is always uncertain and he can't rule out Kuroro having some hax like ability to turn the fight around. In fact, assuming both combatants are equally skilled/experienced, there's only 3 possible outcome:

1. Straight up equal fight (equal distance to Reinforcement, no effective ranged attacks).
2. Person with superior ranged attack dominates with ranged attack (like a fireball trap in Street Fighter).
3. Person with superior melee attack manages to close in distance and dominates with direct melee.

Fights in HXH tends to be a guy fighting someone who is a tier above but makes an unusual mistake (e.g. Pufu ignoring Morel because he's in his obsession over Meryem), or that the weaker guy had an unusually powerful special ability. But that's not really how a normal fight should be. Why should the weaker guy always have an insanely strong ability? Why should the strong guy suddenly drool for no particular reason?

 

[Demonspeed]

Throwing a ball isn't Enhancement. Emitters are good at separating their aura from their body without losing its power, a Nen ball looks more iconic of Emission attacks than Nen blasts to me. By your logic Paper is an Enhancement attack.

Enhancers can strengthen the power of an object better than others, if Uvo uses Shu on a rock and throws it at Hisoka( who defends himself properly) I don't think it will hurt him significantly maybe it won't hurt him at all, this is just a rock, compared to an attack made of pure aura it's significantly weaker. And since he is not an Emitter the power of his Shu will weaken when he will throw it(I guess it won't hurt him at all then). Razor said the spiders are strong, we can at least take Phinks as the reference here, it means a fight against Phinks would be difficult, we can assume him and Phinks are in the same ballpark then.

I disagree with what you said about Chrollo. He is a beast and has been the most impressive human for me, he was dodging and clashing with Zeno while observing Silva at the same time, I am more inclined to think he is better than Zeno at CQC, imagine if he was focused only on Zeno. We don't know all Chrollo's powers and his Hatsu is obviously more versatile than Zeno, Zeno was using this strategy because Chrollo only used Fun Fun Cloth. Chrollo has even a teleportation ability and we don't know how it works yet. You said Zeno would just have to spam his Dragons but it costs AP, Chrollo just has to dodge them.

 

[Phantron]

Emission deals with damage with aura-created objects. Reinforcement deals with damage with real physical objects, and the ball is obviously a physical object. Whether it's Razor throwing the ball or Gon punching the ball, the power comes from the physical force imparted to the ball on the throw/punch. That's why Razor warned them that him throwing a ball does comparable damage to his Emission attacks. If they're the same type of attack why would such a warning be necessary since they just saw him casually blew up a guy with an Emission attack? That's basically him saying 'I'm pretty good at Reinforcement too', and it's a reasonable warning since there are people who are only trained well in one school (e.g. Gon).

On the subject of Kuroro, why does people assume the weaker guy is always supposed to have some magic ability to turn things around? I mean I know that's how fights in HXH goes but there isn't a universal law that says the physically weaker guy is supposed to have a move that totally negates his disadvantage. There's a lot of nonsensical combination of power already. Goreinu can just throw his gorillia off a cliff or into a trap he set up and then teleport the opponent into it. Even if they knew what he was doing there's really nothing they can do to stop it, so why is he just a fairly average Hunter? Why doesn't Bashu just write a hiaku saying he's invinicible? Heck we even have an ability whose trigger condition is just think 'don't die' (seriously, like everyone besides Kite just didn't value their life enough to think about such an ability?). Pitou's ability allows him to continue fighting with his head missing, and if your opponent can do that, you can't possibly be prepared for it, so there's also no point to worry about it.

 

[Demonspeed]

Your are forgetting they are in Greed Island, the space must have conditions like Cheetu's savanna. The ball would have been destroyed under normal circumstances, physical strength has its importance but it's the aura is even more important, his Rock on the ball was stronger when he used more aura, he didn't become physically stronger. Everybody can use aura on a physical object, Rock is just a Ko punch strengthened because of Gon. Obviously Razor is good at Reinforcement but you should replace it by aura here, the aura volume was the deciding factor, the stronger your aura the stronger your attacks, Enhancers Hatsu depend on the aura power( so far) some Emitters Hatsu too, not as Killua's electricity or Hisoka's Bungee Gum.
By physical strength I would say Razor>Hisoka>Gon>Killua. But Gon's aura volume is stronger than all of them.

I don't think Chrollo is weaker than Zeno but if Goreinu or Basho can't do certain things, it means there are conditions. Writing an haiku who would make him is unconceivable IMO. Goreinu can teleport his opponents but we don't know the distance, since he is an Emitter it must be fairly large, still his mental state must be took in consideration. Fear is the reason why he was unable to maintain his Gorilla after Razor crushed his head, to lay a trap and stay calm while any ball can kill you, you need to have a really strong mental, his gorillas can disappear in such a state.
We don't know exactly how Kite's #3 works but the conditions were fulfilled probably because Kite was in a desperate situations where he had no chances to win. We learned that Nen can be strengthened after death so it is always a possibility, Pitou's loyalty to Meruem and determination to kill Gon strengthened her Terpischora who became autonomous and more powerful, she wasn't aware of it, it just happened at this moment.

 

[tupadre97]

Razor throwing a ball normally can break Hisoka's fingers even when he defended properly and avoided the direct impact. Throwing a ball is a Reinforcement type attack (Emission would be throwing an aura blast). If Ubogin is supposed to be stronger than this then you're basically saying he can pick up a rock, throw it at Hisoka and it'd snap his arm even if Hisoka defended properly, and that just seems outright impossible.

Well actually throwing a ball doesn't necessarily an enhancement (or reinforcement as you call it) hatsu to do it. All you need to do is apply Shu and thats what Razor did to the dodgeball. It was just a regular ball but when he applied his aura it made it as heavy as a bowling ball. Thats how dense and powerful his aura is. So if he applied shu to a rock it might as well break hisoka's arm, he did it with a regular ball he should be able to do it with a rock. Really I think Razor is the strongest person after Netero and the royal guards that we've seen fighting so far (as in he's the strongest out of ppl like Chrollo, Zeno, Sliva, Biscuit ppl on that level).

---------- Post added at 01:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------

Why doesn't Bashu just write a hiaku saying he's invinicible?

Pitou's ability allows him to continue fighting with his head missing, and if your opponent can do that, you can't possibly be prepared for it, so there's also no point to worry about it.

Bashu can't do that bcuz it steps beyond "the limit of human abilities". Mizuken explained that to kurapika when he was training him.

As for Pitou it isn't like his ability was specifically made for him being able to fight like that, its really just that his terpsichora remains active even after he dead bcuz nen doesn't disappear when you die and his will to protect the king made him even stronger than he was in life.

---------- Post added at 01:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 AM ----------

unless someone was set up like kurapika, they are going to struggle with uvo

two things lead to kurapikas victory, his awesome pre-planned abilities for the spider, and equally important

his emperor time ability he gains when his eyes turn scarlet that allow him 100% proficiency in all nen categories

No not really. The main reason kurapika won was bcuz he was much faster than him and strong enough to block even his strongest attacks. Uvogin really waasn't that powerful to begin with.

 

[nfinitfx]

Razor > Hisoka > Uvogin

Enough said.

Hisoka only want to fight Kuroro because he knows he can beat the other members.

He does not want to fight Razor because he know he will lose.

Razor stood confidently infront of a whole spider crew, Spider crew knew that GI is important to them because their boss/nen remover is there. So they would have risk fighting many on 1, but they know they would lose some members so they decided to hold back.

 

[Demonspeed]

Razor > Hisoka > Uvogin

Enough said.

Hisoka only want to fight Kuroro because he knows he can beat the other members.

He does not want to fight Razor because he know he will lose.

I find your interpretation is wrong. Hisoka was willing to fight Netero in the first arc and Netero is obviously stronger than Razor and Zeno( who said he could lose against a serious Chrollo). Remind you Hisoka thinks he is the strongest fighter in the world.

Razor stood confidently infront of a whole spider crew, Spider crew knew that GI is important to them because their boss/nen remover is there. So they would have risk fighting many on 1, but they know they would lose some members so they decided to hold back.

Razor was "confident" as you say because he was a Game Master, he could teleport them at any moment ,they recognized their strength, a 1vs1 fight would have never happened because Razor is not an idiot, they were in the "game", he had to respect the rules so he told them about it and teleported them instead of simply teleporting them without warning, if they had respected the rules they would have played dodgeball with him too(), nothing more, any infraction and he would have teleported them.

 

[kkck]

I don't see a reason for us to think razor would loose against hisoka. Certainly razor gave the entire group there a tough fight but those circumstances were entirely different from a normal fight. The dodgeball game was to begin with a game that heavily favored razor and someone with his particular skillset, it was meant to give him an advantage and put enemy teams at a severe disadvantage unless they just happened to have an ideal skillset for the game. Perhaps more important here is the fact that the gang had to necessarily take razor's attack head on to win, in a normal fight they would have to do anything but that. Its not like the whole thing was that impressive anyways, in general just connecting with a hatsu is enough to win a battle (with the simple ones at least). Even gon's rock before greed island would hurt a relatively high nen user if he manages to connect with it, he even knocked out knuckle with it even though knuckle concentrated his nen in his abdomen to cancel it out.

 

[REN KOUEN]

Razors dominance was displayed in a game with rules

where a god like emitter had a distinct advantage

sorry but i guve the edge to hisoka ove uvo or razor in an actual fight

hisoka is a calculated genius at fighting

he wouldnt lose to those two