Predictions V is not Dead/V... is Enryu (theory)

[Vitala]

Also the translator at time was not really good, he made many mistakes, it was not adios corea either.

 

[Monatoze Narutomaki]

Enryu so strong who Killed Administrator, according to SIU not even in his best days no matter how much Zahard would try he would never be able to beat an administrator if V was such an strong guy he would never lose the rebellion against King Zahard and 10 Families (V and Zahard were both at their prime when Zahard became King)
According to Edhan V was best at Shinso Tension (not overall Shinso Control) but Zahard was clearly the leader, implying Zahard the stronger one in combat, once again proving him not being Enryu
if its about Zahard's immortality, V could first kill Administrator Zahard made contract with then Kill Zahard.... or just capture and imprison him...but Enryu didn't which once again means he isn't V

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Enryu so strong who Killed Administrator, according to SIU not even in his best days no matter how much Zahard would try he would never be able to beat an administrator

We don't know if he could. We don't know that he tried. For all we know, he never tried - it was just thought of as impossible. Either way it doesn't matter. I'm not talking about V from the time he fought Zahard. Which was addressed in the OP already. THAT V couldn't do what Enryu did. But THAT V didn't exist when Enryu did and I clearly state that I think something may have happened to him.

if V was such an strong guy he would never lose the rebellion against King Zahard and 10 Families (V and Zahard were both at their prime when Zahard became King)

V faced an army of not only Zahard but the 10FH as well. He had a pregnant spell-caster by his side. Based on 'generals' alone he was outnumbered and outpowered. Not exactly a fair comparo. AGAIN, it matters not if he were weaker that Zahard or even on the same level - he was, as one of the thirteen originals - clearly very powerful. And for some odd reason V (as a so-called 'mortal') and Arlen thought they had a chance to take on Zahard. They miscalculated but they certainly had the confidence to try and I think that's illustrative of their respective power levels so to say. I am not going to fight Mike Tyson. Because I know I can't. If they knew the chasm was that big (having climbed with him and having some idea of his power level) they wouldn't have bothered in the first place. I think the 10FH turning against them in consensus is what lost the war for them. It seems they were undecided at first which side to take but all took Zahard's side in the end for whatever reason. It's obviously notable that it was pointed out that V lost the war only after the 10FH decided to take Zahard's side. Even if V=Z then V would lose to Z+10FH, and I think this implies the war could have gone the other way if they hadn't ganged up in unison with the obviously powerful Zahard. If Zahard is so OP he wouldn't necessarily need their help, why note that they all turned on V then?

According to Edhan V was best at Shinso Tension (not overall Shinso Control) but Zahard was clearly the leader, implying Zahard the stronger one in combat, once again proving him not being Enryu

This doesn't 'prove' anything as I'm not talking about V then. V could have been remade, or had grown in his powers - increasing in strength, newfound strength from resurrection, buffing from the 'god' outside, etc etc. (this is the basis for the theory btw) The purpose of this thought experiment does not include the V that lost the war as he was not who I have speculated about. Just as the MC isn't the same as he was in S1, lots can happen in thousands of years.

Not only that, but what is though of as V's son, Baam, just so happens to have great shinsoo tension and is now using the same 'rain' as Enryu did - just not red (because he hasn't injected it with thorn shinsoo). Do you know any other character so far that could potentially pull of Enryu's infamous 'red rain'? Only Baam can, and his father is V... yet that's Enryu's 'move'. Just saying, that doesn't seem coincidental.

if its about Zahard's immortality, V could first kill Administrator Zahard made contract with then Kill Zahard.... or just capture and imprison him...but Enryu didn't which once again means he isn't V

That's IF Enryu still had the 'juice' to be able to kill yet another admin and Zahard to boot. So why didn't he do just that? I happen to think there's good reason to believe he was buffed enough to get the thorn (or make it) in the tower, then maybe go off and die or anything else. Like Mario with the super-star powerup, it had a time or energy limit. Otherwise why not just continue on and go fuck up Zahard and any admin that come his way? Seems odd if he hated Zahard and supposedly had the power to kill him that he didn't just simply cut out the middle man and do it himself...

Enryu had the exact same rage that a spouse of V would have had at her floor being desecrated. It was personal with him....

Also, isn't it interesting that the FIRST irregular to appear after the only other irregular to ever disappear (other than the female Arlen) is Enryu. V, exits, Enryu returns to enact revenge in her name. Seems like a fitting alias, convenient timing, and the exact same motivations/level of resentment. Peculiar to say the least.

For this theory to work it has to address V getting a buff of some sort and that's exactly what I said in the OP.

Regardless, this is just a crazy theory I'm certainly not hanging my hat on it or claiming it as fact. I just want it to live in perpetuity until we get the answers down the road. This thread will either be another dud of mine or on an off chance be an epic forecast.

 

[TBeast]

I just dont understand, why does Z had to be stronger than V because Z was their leader?
Because someone is the leader that doesnot mean he has to be stronger than the others, or?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I really think they were at least on par, V and Z. V seems to have been his foil, and Eduan probably wouldn't have looked up to V merely based on his attitude alone (i.e., he was probably also strong as well as humble). V also, as a mortal compared to the others, thought he could take on Z. I have to imagine he could back it up.

I just think Z was more ambitious. Maybe he rallied the troops better. Maybe he 'had something' he could hang over V's head because Garam really made it sound like the 10FH were fighting each other and certainly didn't take Z's side initially as a knee-jerk decision. Something happened and this was alluded to. It almost sounds like they were split on who to support until whatever event caused them to all rally around Zahard.

V probably could have did what Z did. That just wasn't his goal. It was literally opposite of his plans - he wanted to keep going up with Arlen and probably the others. Eschewing immortality and not vying for kinghood kind of play together. Not his style or objective.

We only know that Z was a powerhouse because history goes to the victor. We don't know enough about V, but we have a few hints. No, I'm not saying this is a guarantee though I see it as pretty likely (V being comparable to Z in strength/combat prowess).

 

[SOKORO DOUCHE]

Apologies if this has already been discussed. I couldn't find a similar thread.

Wall of text warning!

How V could be Enryu (see explanation of how V could have faked his death and why he'd be motivated to do so down below)

OK, if you suspend your disbelief about V's death, consider the striking similarities:

Irregulars:
- V is an irregular (extremely rare) from outside the tower who forced his way in.
- Enryu is an irregular (extremely rare) from outside the tower who forced his way in.
(both are irregulars, V would have had to make his way back out, but by then he'd know his way out/in if he were Enryu - or he had never left in the first place)

Knowledge of In-Tower Events Relating to Arlen and Zahard:
- V, as an original 13 irregular that came in with Zahard, was obviously familiar with everything that went down, at least up to his 'death' which was well after all the notable incidents with Zahard.
- Enryu, from outside of the tower, somehow was not only familiar with Arlen but was a vocal supporter. He was familiar with the Z empire, and that the future FoD had a desecration of Arlen's memory there that he felt the need to rectify - while bringing something needed to kill Zahard, the Thorn. V, losing the rebellion, didn't have the arsenal - at that time - to defeat Jahard. But, if alive, he'd certainly have sought out/created something like the Thorn.
(In other words, Enryu is not just some random irregular entering the tower; he was uniquely tied to the side of the rebellion against Zahard with Arlen/V. But, if he hadn't participated in the rebellion because he supposedly came in later as 'new', how would he know these things and why would he curiously have the SAME EXACT motivations as V?)

Shinsoo Mastery:
- V reportedly had incredible shinsoo mastery - he had the highest shinsoo tension in a group of 13 irregulars, greater than even Zahard (and the only higher ranked individual is...)
- Enryu reportedly had incredible shinsoo mastery - he possibly had the highest shinsoo mastery in the history of the tower, higher than even Zahard.
(both in at least one way have the highest reported shinsoo mastery as irregulars or regulars, over Zahard the tower's king... basically only "two" individuals have stronger mastery of shinsoo than Zahard - or, only ONE person)

Shinsoo Life-Creation:
- V's son, Baam, was brought back to life, presumably with a spell and/or shinsoo mastery (spells are probably some sort of shinsoo manipulation anyways) to the point of life regeneration/creation. If V made his way outside, he could have been involved in bringing his son back to life if he discovered a way once he left the tower. This makes infinitely more sense than killing yourself and leaving your wife to the task...
- Enryu reportedly has shinsoo mastery to the point he can create life, why do you think this specific feat has been pointed out as legend as it pertains to his character, and not even hinted as showing why this myth was thought to be the case?
(both have many traits in common, including being linked to the ability or desire to create life/raise the dead)

Weapons:
- V was shown with either a needle or sword in a flashback fleeing from Zahard
- Enryu left a needle-like thorn and fought bare-handed using shinsoo alone (did he leave his favorite weapon of choice, perhaps with a buff strong enough for Baam to use to kill Zahard?). He is said to be a spear-bearer, but elites are obviously proficient in all weapons. Some spear-bearers, according to the wiki, also carry needles in their pipes for melee battles (such as when fleeing...?). One aside - Kranos, a needle, sort of reminds me of the sealed thorn.
(both are curiously linked to a needle of all things but more than capable of fighting using their bigger strength instead, shinsoo)

Arlen:
- V, as Arlen's husband, is clearly sensitive to any attacks on Arlen (her person or memory).
- Enryu, as a seemingly new irregular in the tower, is inexplicably upset when he thought Arlen's shrine was desecrated. Arlen, who was long gone before Enryu's entrance into the tower, supposedly.
(both are obviously extremely defensive over Arlen, and only V makes sense as to why, unless....)

Baam:
- V is the father of Baam, so, yeah. He would certainly want to avenge his death, and reanimate him.
- Enryu, while not explicitly naming Baam, wants to arm the chosen individual (obviously Baam) to kill the king (obviously Z)
(both have overlapping desires for Baam to revenge himself/Arlen against Zahard)

Zahard:
- V thought, as with Arlen, that Zahard had been blinded by "falsehoods" prior to his decision to stop climbing and later coronation
- Enryu pointedly called Zahard a "false" king
(both have the same attitude that Zahard's kingship is "false"/illegitimate)

Magnanimous:
- V was said by Eduan to be considerate of individuals/tower residents
- Enryu had every opportunity kill ALL of Zahard's supporters, but gave them the chance to just leave and be spared
(this one is kind of simple)

Timeline:
- V entered with Z, then 'left' either by death or by faking his death
- Enryu entered well after the events of Z's rise
(Enryu was the first of only a select VERY few irregulars to arrive after the original 13... he was possibly just a revisiting V as Enryu. Again, if he ever left in the first place. The chronology checks out)

Strength:
- V's speculative-would-be rank is obviously unknown, but what IS known is that even Zahard couldn't/didn't kill someone that purportedly wasn't even protected with the immortality spell (and if he'd kill his baby, he'd clearly kill V... if he had the strength to do so that is - heavily implying he couldn't). V also, with only a spell-caster by his side (Arlen), was able to fend off 10 great family heads AND Zahard in a civil war and survive. Granted, he didn't win, but such a feat is testament to a great strength. To be able to handle such a dog-pile (yes, he had supporters, but so did the 11 against him most likely) and survive unscathed could very well mean V was possibly, probably even, stronger than Zahard 1-on-1, but just not Zahard and all the other TEN powerful irregulars (all with immortality!) against him (or he couldn't overrule the immortality perhaps). Or perhaps he couldn't kill Zahard because then he'd lose the key. So maybe that was like fighting him with limitations b/c he couldn't go all-out.
- Enryu is undoubtedly stronger than Zahard, capable of controlling the most bangs, killing an admin that even Zahard could not do.
(both are arguably the two only non-axis individuals stronger than Zahard... and per rankings that includes Urek)

Guardians/Admin:
- V is likely not a big fan of the admin, who have subsidized, underwritten, and acted as enablers to the Zahard empire - which V views as a false dynasty.
- Enryu is clearly not taking any shit from admin, the only person to kill one (who happened to be working against his defense of Arlen's legacy)
(this one is pretty easy enough as well - if V returned he'd certainly have an ax to grind with any admin that got in his way this time, or tacitly supported Zahard, or threatened Arlen/Baam or their memory. No one else is uniquely hostile or has the motivation to be hostile towards admin)

Genetic Traits for Progeny:
- V would more than likely pass down traits ranging from appearance to inherent shinsoo powers/features, as well as his prodigal use of shinsoo
- Enryu would more than likely pass down traits ranging from appearance to inherent shinsoo powers/features, as well as his prodigal use of shinsoo
(Baam clearly favors his father in looks - as much as we can tell from the back lol, but young Baam with shorter hair could also favor Enryu a bit if his hair was red. Maybe that's a stretch, but what is not a stretch is Baam is a prodigy when it comes to learning/using shinsoo moves, just like V/Enryu. Now, check this out - Enryu's signature shinsoo move? Red Rain. Baam's most recent, high-level shinsoo move used in Yama's ship to kill multiple enemies at once? RAIN. The only thing it lacked to be exactly like Red Rain was the red color.... which, Baam's shinsoo has been shown to turn red at times when it is influenced by the Thorn - Enryu's Thorn. Theoretically then, Baam can do Red Rain. Just like Enryu, but like no one else that we've seen or heard. Check the wiki's section on Baam's powers and abilities, pt. III for confirmation, or the recent chapter 422)

Other than reporting as 'dead' (off-screen, mythos), I find it harder to argue AGAINST V being Enryu considering everything, however...

Rebuttals:

"But, V is Dead. SIU said so!"
- Is he? That's the story at least. 'Surprise, I wasn't really dead all along!' isn't exactly new. Or, 'Surprise, I had found a way to look after you, son, without alerting anyone to who I am.' See; any manga/fiction ever. We have the surprise about Aizen's death in Bleach. Or the revelation that Isshin was really a powerful captain looking over Ichigo. Or that his mother was really a Quincy. In Naruto, we have the revelation that Orochimaru didn't actually die when originally thought killed. We have Madara not really dying when thought (this, other than Kaguya, was really the big twist/reveal). We have 'Pain' not really pulling the strings for Akatsuki. We have the Tobi/Obito double-life where Tobi didn't really die when thought. We have the Mufasa-esque way that Minato figured out how to stay watching over Naruto's growth. There's always other manga too - Griffith's betrayal. Or Movies - Neo's not in the real world, he's in the Matrix. Or Vader is Luke's father. Or, in the SW/EU, that Palpatine 'came back' as he had himself cloned. Or, hell, the ep9 trailer makes it sound like Sheev's back. ffs, it's almost guaranteed someone thought to be dead really isn't, or that someone thought to be that person is in reality another person altogether.

The point is, this type of thing is nothing new.

"OK, so if he didn't die, how would that work exactly?"
- I can think of many ways, there are undoubtedly more.
1. V, losing the battle, took the heat off Arlen and himself by faking his death for Arlen's sake after their son was killed. Arlen either was or wasn't in on it. If she wasn't, it was truly to pacify her grieving mind, though it didn't work as intended (for her to forget everything and rejoin the group) and would have caused her more grief, so I don't believe that would have been a smart move. If she was, she easily falsified the pocket diary and other efforts to keep up the appearance (I've said it before, but read Gone Girl...).
2. V, losing the battle, really did kill himself after Baam was murdered. He was either also reanimated by the same individual that revived Baam, or Arlen did it herself (and possibly Baam too) as the witch she is. If he was revived from the dead, it could have had an effect on hair color/eye color and shinsoo color (red is the color of anger, vengeance, hatred, fire, blood, etc - all fitting). Enryu could be his alias, or his new name altogether as a 'new' person. He might or might not know who he is/was as a reanimated monster Enryu.
3. V, losing the battle, really did kill himself. Surprise! Irregulars (all) can't die while in the tower. It seemed like a real death and was convincing (think Wangnam's seemingly fatal blow), but he either completely revived or never all the way died. This is unknown, or known, by admin who offer 'immortality contracts' for the 10FH and Z. This makes the contracts moot/redundant. Sounds silly? Well, Baam was told by an admin ANY SHINSOO contract was redundant, and limiting, as he already had access and control over shinsoo. So redundant contracts is cannon. Think the movie Death Becomes Her.
4. V, losing the battle, attempted suicide. He appeared convincingly dead, but never died. He actually had the immortality gift after all, and concocted a story where he didn't so he could fake his death. Life insurance fraud in the ToG universe.
5. V was prevented from death by the healing exoskeleton/lobster (remember that)? This could have also been gifted into FUG, or recreated by FUG at a later point. It would have a higher ability for someone at V's level instead of lowly Baam when we last saw it.
6. V really did die. However, he was reformed into a weapon (the Thorn) either by an Arlen spell or the outside 'god' (or both). The Thorn is blood-red, which is appropriate for re-purposed flesh. Or V lived and poured himself into the Thorn to be used as a weapon (as either Enryu himself on the FoD, or before and Enryu is to deliver the Thorn/V). Whatever. Zanpakato have souls, 13 months have souls, ignition weapons have souls, the thorn could very-well have the soul (bound by a spell from Arlen) of V/Enryu. Credit to someone else somewhere that said Enryu IS the Thorn. I'm just saying maybe V IS Enryu IS the Thorn. Or that V is the Thorn and Enryu delivers it/him. Either way.

"But, what about Arlen's pocket diary?"
- See #1 above. Then, go read Gone Girl. Or see the movie if pressed for time.

"But, why would he do such a thing?"
- See above answers. Also, killing yourself and leaving your grieving wife is a silly move. Now she has a dead kid, husband, and STILL can't die herself. No one is left to enact vengeance on Zahard. It also didn't have the effect he supposedly wanted we are told. It solved NOTHING. Not to sound like a PSA, but suicide doesn't solve the problem, it is a cheap 'out'.

"What about their appearances??"
- It worked for Clark Kent and Superman, and a million other aliases. Whether V redid his look purposefully, or was somehow reborn, what are we talking about exactly? V's face is purposefully not shown. A haircut, and some dye. Although I suspect Enryu's unique hair/eye color has more to do with what happened to him (V) to buff him so. We don't know V's height, that would be hard to fake.

"If V was Enryu-powerful then why didn't he just kill Zahard?"
- Well, if Enryu was so powerful and hated Zahard, why didn't HE just kill Zahard? Obviously for the same reason that V wouldn't if they're one and the same. So why didn't Enryu? Enryu is qualified as he is an irregular, unbound by contracts, and stronger than Zahard, so what gives? Maybe both want the poetic justice of Baam being the one to take down Zahard. Maybe, like Itachi and Sasuke, he wanted to motivate Baam and get him to grow. But I suspect it has something to do with the key. If I kill the only person who knows where a key to a safe is, I'm not getting in the safe. Hell, why did Phanta stop short of killing Zahard? I think that V/Enryu is stronger than Zahard in a 1-on-1 BEFORE the King of the Tower contract effect is taken into account. It might not be enough to be a stronger irregular to best Zahard considering the contract. V probably ran into this during civil war.

"This goes against the story."
- Well, yeah. Laugh now, cry later.

"You're crazy/type too much."
- Probably.

"I'm just skimming and haven't read everything."
- I know.




Maybe one reason SIU won't give a firm number of irregulars is... the math might give it away. For instance, if he said there were only 17 irregulars? Or... 16 (see fourth alternative below)? (go ahead and do the head math lol)

Alternatives to this theory in the same vein:

1. Enryu is V's brother, out to avenge V's death and his sister-in-law's treatment. So, V's not Enryu here but most everything else lines up the two were related in such a way. Enryu didn't enter the Tower along with V in this case, but found out what had happened from Arlen later after she made her way out. They would still have many similar features as brothers, and many same motivations.
2. Enryu/V is working for the same 'god' that Arlen found outside the tower to raise Baam from the dead. As a disciple, he (V) too has learned that ability of life-creation. Arlen is a fellow disciple? (Arlen could have came back and reanimated V since she did the same for Baam)
3. Enryu/V is working for the same 'god' that Arlen 'found' outside the tower - it is V who had first made his way out and increased his abilities to that of a god, and reanimated Baam. Arlen, in her grief, might or might not have recognized V, but probably would. Enryu spoke in third-person.
4. Enryu, as V, is working for the same 'god' that Arlen 'found' outside the tower - she found it in herself and speaks of herself (an awakened state from her grief). It would more than likely require a spell to raise the dead anyways. V/Enryu sees Arlen at this level as a 'god' (and maybe she's even Phantaminum - they both have long hair, appear insane, and a hard-on for Zahard. Phanta was said to be a normal human that 'awoke' to axis/god status. Most everyone was either killed or went insane from seeing Phanta, except one, Yuri. Maybe she chose to present as male, or was so ambiguous as to her crazy look that she was reported as 'dirty' by Yuri - like a dirty, crazy cat-lady who is sad over her son's death. But since Phanta supposedly predates the Tower, this is highly unlikely. Unless 'awakening' into an axis is like gaining the ancient Phoenix Force in Marvel Comics - Jean Grey became the Dark Phoenix, god-tier, that predates her mortal character... If she's not Phanta, maybe she's just a different axis now). Maybe Arlen also reanimated V, and sent him back as Enryu with the red-rage power-up spell buff and the thorn she had been involved in crafting. Enryu might or might not be aware he was recreated from V to be an avenger of 'god', but would certainly not stand for a desecration to her memory (again, viewing her with god-level status).

We have been told that Enryu would be back (if he ever left) in the Tower at a later part in the series, probably around the Climax. A la when Isshin taught Ichigo Final Getsuga Tensho. Enryu/V will reveal his character to Baam, teach him to use the Thorn, bail him out when fighting Zahard. Something like that. Possibly.

I fully anticipate *crickets* or 'nah' responses lol

well... I do believe V might be alive but i dont think he and Enryu are the same. Enryu is probably tied with the God of the outside...

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 11, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 11, 2019 ---

I do believe the most interesting thing about Tower Of God is the questions it raises as much as the answers it gives. If Enryu is stronger than Zahard, why doesnt he himself defeat him? why do they all need to wait for Baam? Same as Urek, why isnt Urek defeating Zahard or trying too?? Plus what Urek said to Baam... To not believe anything he hears in the tower but be himself.. Then looking at what Garah zahad said to baam about V and Arlene believing Zahard was being misled hence his decision to stop climbing.... Plus remember Zahard at the hidden floor...when he was talking to his data version.... I beleive there is more than meets the eye and there is a reason why V killed himself and why Zahard is the way he is.. I would bet they are interrelateed...I dont know how SIU plans on explaining all this but it will be interesting

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

well... I do believe V might be alive but i dont think he and Enryu are the same. Enryu is probably tied with the God of the outside...

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 11, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 11, 2019 ---

I do believe the most interesting thing about Tower Of God is the questions it raises as much as the answers it gives. If Enryu is stronger than Zahard, why doesnt he himself defeat him? why do they all need to wait for Baam? Same as Urek, why isnt Urek defeating Zahard or trying too?? Plus what Urek said to Baam... To not believe anything he hears in the tower but be himself.. Then looking at what Garah zahad said to baam about V and Arlene believing Zahard was being misled hence his decision to stop climbing.... Plus remember Zahard at the hidden floor...when he was talking to his data version.... I beleive there is more than meets the eye and there is a reason why V killed himself and why Zahard is the way he is.. I would bet they are interrelateed...I dont know how SIU plans on explaining all this but it will be interesting

Oh, don't get me wrong. This is a fringe theory to be sure. But I'm decreasingly fond of the following, in this order.

1. V was as strong as Zahard. I just think without the support of the 10FHs and an immortality contract he couldn't compete - but he didn't WANT to be king.

2. V isn't gone from the story, and I don't mean flashbacks. Maybe he faked his death (not even unheard of) - his death was nonsensical and meant absolutely nothing. Maybe he was raised from actual death by Arlen/outside 'g'. Maybe he's in Akryung's shell. Maybe his soul got put into Baam (I find it interesting it was stated Arlen not only kept Baam's body but items from V... as if they were both significant). Whatever, I'm just all but certain he'll be around in some form or fashion.

...

3. V being Enryu.




All are, of course, just speculative. But I feel the weight of likelihood is certainly in a descending order.