Discussion Vista and Mihawk

[Pirate Queen]

New data confirms what the Marineford War showed. Vista has the skill to compete with the WSS, despite knowing Mihaek was the strongest Swordsman in the world. (This is sure to ruffle some feathers)

Discuss!

 

[Fox666]

One Piece Visual Dictionary:

"Vista has the skills to compete with Mihawk, one of the most famous swordsmen in the world. He wasn't afraid to confront him despite knowing Mihawk was the strongest."

However that's not new, and something similar had already been revealed in another databook.

One Piece Blue Deep:

"Vista showed his swordsmanship which is equal or superior to Mihawk's in this fight."

 

[nik87]

I think this is to be expected. Just because Mihawk is the best in swordsmanship it doesnt mean he will one-shot everyone like he did with Zoro in the past.
It means that if Mihawk fought any other swordsman to the death he would come on top in the end. Clashing with Vista and Shanks in short fights and there being no victor only implies that they are all at the same tier. Vista should not be underestimated, like Mihawk himself said in Marineford, he would be a fool if he didnt know Vista's name.

Swordsmanship is very dangerous skill and the readers somehow dont realize that, maybe because of Zoro's fights, since he either gets to fight swordsmen or opponents who have the ability to withstand swordsmen and cuts (Mr.1's blade body and Kaku's tekkai or Pica's stone body). All it takes, when swordsmen with normal human body fight another swordsman, is one cut and the fight can be over, until then its a test of the skill and trying to find a weakness and an opening to end the fight.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think this is to be expected. Just because Mihawk is the best in swordsmanship it doesnt mean he will one-shot everyone like he did with Zoro in the past.
It means that if Mihawk fought any other swordsman to the death he would come on top in the end. Clashing with Vista and Shanks in short fights and there being no victor only implies that they are all at the same tier. Vista should not be underestimated, like Mihawk himself said in Marineford, he would be a fool if he didnt know Vista's name.

Swordsmanship is very dangerous skill and the readers somehow dont realize that, maybe because of Zoro's fights, since he either gets to fight swordsmen or opponents who have the ability to withstand swordsmen and cuts (Mr.1's blade body and Kaku's tekkai or Pica's stone body). All it takes, when swordsmen with normal human body fight another swordsman, is one cut and the fight can be over, until then its a test of the skill and trying to find a weakness and an opening to end the fight.

Well said

 

[M3J]

Nothing says Vista is equal to Mihawk though, and it even says that he sees Mihawk as the strongest, if Fox666 didn't misquote.

Either way, it'd be pretty awesome to see their fight, Mihawk wouldn't walk away without being battered, hopefully.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Nothing says Vista is equal to Mihawk though, and it even says that he sees Mihawk as the strongest, if Fox666 didn't misquote.

Either way, it'd be pretty awesome to see their fight, Mihawk wouldn't walk away without being battered, hopefully.

It just goes to show how much Vista was berated to be honest.

There was some much of "Mihawk was holding back and it made Vista look better than he actually was"

or

"Vista is only 5th Commander so he is much weaker than Jozu and Marco!"

This outright states they were more equal than anything and how highly skilled Vista was to even be able to match Mihawk point to point.

I personally feel Mihawk, Yonko, and Admirals get put on this pedestal and that any perceived equality is disregarded off right because of their titles.

 

[M3J]

Vista is probably severely underrated, but I've never seen him mentioned much so I have no idea what the general consensus is on him. The fact that Mihawk went from "I never bother to remember the faces of trash" to "only an ignoramus wouldn't know you, 'Flower-Blade' Vista" honestly says it all. Vista most likely could beat Zoro.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Vista is probably severely underrated, but I've never seen him mentioned much so I have no idea what the general consensus is on him. The fact that Mihawk went from "I never bother to remember the faces of trash" to "only an ignoramus wouldn't know you, 'Flower-Blade' Vista" honestly says it all. Vista most likely could beat Zoro.

If Vista has the skills to fight Mihawk, no doubt He can beat Zoro.

I really need Zoro to get a swordsman opponent soon.

 

[King Moe]

If Vista has the skills to fight Mihawk, no doubt He can beat Zoro.

I really need Zoro to get a swordsman opponent soon.

Zoro has potential to fight either King, Queen, or Orochi, but I doubt he face multiple like Luffy can. If to choose one probably Orochi due to his position in the country and highly regarded for his swordsmanship. Though did expect hon to lose or to someone before gaining a new sword. You could get your wish here.

Also you saying Zoro might fight Vista in the future?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro has potential to fight either King, Queen, or Orochi, but I doubt he face multiple like Luffy can. If to choose one probably Orochi due to his position in the country and highly regarded for his swordsmanship. Though did expect hon to lose or to someone before gaining a new sword. You could get your wish here.

Also you saying Zoro might fight Vista in the future?

No, I'm saying that if zoro is to become the new WSS he needs a convincing win over a powerful swordsman. He has 0 wins over renowned swordsmen as of this chapter and its frustrating.

It's like Luffy wanting to be Pirate King but he doesnt fight any Pirates to get the title lol

Zoro fights people with swords, but no classified powerful swordsman. Ryuuma is the only one that comes to mind and he was a zombie.

Wano is full of powerful swordsmen tho. Zoro should THRIVE 100% in this arc. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

I think this is to be expected. Just because Mihawk is the best in swordsmanship it doesnt mean he will one-shot everyone like he did with Zoro in the past.

based on hype and the fact that kaidou one-shotted G4 luffy, mihawk the guy who clashed draw with shanks should also be able to oneshot vista. Vista isn't even top 3 commanders.
Let's just be honest here, oda messed up here. Just like he did to crocodile being defeated by haki-less non-gear luffy

 

[TitaniumOxide]

We really didn't get to see much of Vista's fight vs Mihawk but I am speculating here right now on why Vista might be so powerful.

"Flower Blade" might imply that he might be from the Kano country (Flower Kingdom?) which is where Sai and Don Chinjao is from both very powerful fighters. If I recall correctly, they use vibrations right? I can see some crazy sword techniques if Vista incorporate vibrations into his haki powered slashes. Holy shit...what if The Kano country is actually Wakanda? K One Piece Marvel Cross over you guys heard it here first!

 

[nik87]

based on hype and the fact that kaidou one-shotted G4 luffy, mihawk the guy who clashed draw with shanks should also be able to oneshot vista. Vista isn't even top 3 commanders.
Let's just be honest here, oda messed up here. Just like he did to crocodile being defeated by haki-less non-gear luffy

I agree that Oda messed up with Crocodile and I do think that Crocoboi is a lot stronger than we think.

The thing that Oda messed up about Whitebeard Pirates, imo, is naming Ace as 2nd division commander, implying that he is 2nd strongest commander which i disagree with. I would keep Marco as first commander, I would probably place Jozu as 2nd commander and Vista as 3rd (or maybe switch Jozu and Vista places). I would place Ace as 4th and Thachi as 5th only because we got 0 information on Thachi's abilities.Oda probably wanted to hype up the son of Pirate King by giving him that position and the fact that he was logia in pre-time-skip era when a logia was troublesome to fight but I think that both Jozu and Vista are more powerful in post-time-skip era with CoA heavily present.

I dont expect Mihawk to one-shot the strongest swordsman under Whitebeard. I think that would give no justice to commander Vista as commanders are powerhouses for themselves. A skilled swordsman whose name is known to strongest swordsman says something.

 

[King Moe]

No, I'm saying that if zoro is to become the new WSS he needs a convincing win over a powerful swordsman. He has 0 wins over renowned swordsmen as of this chapter and its frustrating.

It's like Luffy wanting to be Pirate King but he doesnt fight any Pirates to get the title lol

Zoro fights people with swords, but no classified powerful swordsman. Ryuuma is the only one that comes to mind and he was a zombie.

Wano is full of powerful swordsmen tho. Zoro should THRIVE 100% in this arc. I'm looking forward to it.

That is true. His last swordsman opponent was Fujitora and that didn't went well for him. He truly need more swordsman fights or something to test him to cut something harder he hasn't done before or so. Orochi could be the one I hope he face off more since he is renowned guy as well. Lets see how it can go on.

 

[hokageji]

"Vista is only 5th Commander so he is much weaker than Jozu and Marco!"

Wait, are the commanders actually ranked??? That makes Ace 2nd strongest, pretty weak for a yonkou captain.
I dont think that is true. I think the teams are ranked on their skills or something like that.

Marco was the first division captain, but was also lead the doctors, Thatch was the 4th and lead the cooks etc.... Vista was capable of using Haki, we know that for a fact and he did attack Akainu with it too... Perhaps there is more to the strongest swordsmen title. What if its a challenge on cutting something ......
We will see Vista soon, either allied with Luffy or taken down by Weevil.

 

[Pirate Queen]

based on hype and the fact that kaidou one-shotted G4 luffy, mihawk the guy who clashed draw with shanks should also be able to oneshot vista. Vista isn't even top 3 commanders.
Let's just be honest here, oda messed up here. Just like he did to crocodile being defeated by haki-less non-gear luffy

This is a perfect example of what I was trying to say "Vista isn't top 3"

So?

It's his skill as a swordsman, not strength tier nor is it even confirmed that Whitebeards Commander ranked from strongest to weakest.

People are just upset that someone can match Mihawk and he looks less like a God because of it.

This reveal takes nothing away from Mihawk but assures us readers that their fight was indeed a DRAW.

One point each, Mihawk didn't lose his title.

One your second point.

Crocodile WAS a huge mistake and it was a mistake Oda mentioned. He stated he introduced Crocodile way too early because he didnt think One Piece would last as long as it did.

He corrected his mistake by showing Crocodile clashing with top tiers at Marineford, but to us it looked odd that he was so powerful because Oda actually scaled him correctly.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2018 ---

Wait, are the commanders actually ranked??? That makes Ace 2nd strongest, pretty weak for a yonkou captain.
I dont think that is true. I think the teams are ranked on their skills or something like that.

Marco was the first division captain, but was also lead the doctors, Thatch was the 4th and lead the cooks etc.... Vista was capable of using Haki, we know that for a fact and he did attack Akainu with it too... Perhaps there is more to the strongest swordsmen title. What if its a challenge on cutting something ......
We will see Vista soon, either allied with Luffy or taken down by Weevil.

It was all assumption by Mihawk diehard fans. That's the point I was trying to get across.

Many readers went to great lengths to explain away Mohawk being unable to defeat Vista in their very brief clash.

It's not like they even fought a full length battle, which I'm sure Mihawk would have eventually won.

 

[Fox666]

Yeah, Crocodile shouldn't have been a Shichibukai. It would have been far better if he was the first mate or "right hand" of an actual Shichibukai.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yeah, Crocodile shouldn't have been a Shichibukai. It would have been far better if he was the first mate or "right hand" of an actual Shichibukai.

Oda corrected the mistake and scaled him correctly, but for us it's just weird he's suddenly clashing with Mihawk, Akainu, and Doflamingo lol.

My personal head cannon is that he trained in level 6 Impel down and because of that he grew exceptionally stronger by the time Marineford War started up. lol!!!!!

It fits the timeline and is believable.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

This is a perfect example of what I was trying to say "Vista isn't top 3"

So?

It's his skill as a swordsman, not strength tier nor is it even confirmed that Whitebeards Commander ranked from strongest to weakest.

People are just upset that someone can match Mihawk and he looks less like a God because of it.

This reveal takes nothing away from Mihawk but assures us readers that their fight was indeed a DRAW.

One point each, Mihawk didn't lose his title.

One your second point.

Crocodile WAS a huge mistake and it was a mistake Oda mentioned. He stated he introduced Crocodile way too early because he didnt think One Piece would last as long as it did.

He corrected his mistake by showing Crocodile clashing with top tiers at Marineford, but to us it looked odd that he was so powerful because Oda actually scaled him correctly.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2018 ---

It was all assumption by Mihawk diehard fans. That's the point I was trying to get across.

Many readers went to great lengths to explain away Mohawk being unable to defeat Vista in their very brief clash.

It's not like they even fought a full length battle, which I'm sure Mihawk would have eventually won.

strength definitely is a factor in swordsmanship.
This is why kuina said eventually zoro inevitably would beat him because men are stronger. Why would she say that otherwise?
Just accept that oda made some mistakes for powerscale. Like how a mountaim bandit can manage to escape from the whole shanks crew via smoke bomb (what happened to CoO?)

 

[Pirate Queen]

strength definitely is a factor in swordsmanship.
This is why kuina said eventually zoro inevitably would beat him because men are stronger. Why would she say that otherwise?
Just accept that oda made some mistakes for powerscale. Like how a mountaim bandit can manage to escape from the whole shanks crew via smoke bomb (what happened to CoO?)

Because she was raised in a sexist world completely dominated by famous men swordsmen without a single role model female swordsman to give her hope. Her father even admitted it. She didn't exactly have a supporting dather

Are you serious? lol

Your basing Swordsmanship=Strength on a depressed little girls notion of strength???

Next point:

The smoke bomb was way before haki was set in stone. It was chapter 1.

We are talking about a manga that wasn't expecting to last this long. I admitted their were mistakes. Oda has as well.

These data books are current, with very up to date facts from a fully fleshed out manga bearing its end.

Your bias is freely showing here.

If the data book outright said Mihawk was stronger than Shanks, you would be clinging to them harder than a priest does a bible.

Edit: Off topic, I just saw your profile picture and I laughed so hard I spit out my coffee lol. That's great! Has anyone attacked you about it yet?

This forum is notorious for both Sanji/Zoro bashing. I bet Sanji fans "love" it