Discussion Vive la révolution

[King Dryst]

She may even know it, and think she's playing those that are playing her.

You think she can play Gustang? Well, maybe she thinks she can. I'm just going to laugh when her big three wishes turn out to be a complete monkey's paw. That man ain't giving her worthless ass a damned thing.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

You think she can play Gustang?

Ah, no. I'm going back to what you JUST said - she may think she can.

I think Gustang knows. He doesn't tolerate fools. He thinks her actions are useful to him yet, IMO. Hell, he may even be directing them. As I said in the chapter discussion - controlled opposition. Gustang is smart enough to make that work in his favor. Bellarir could also be in on it.

Double agents, triple agents...

 

[King Dryst]

Bellarir could also be in on it.

I'd like to think that his ultimate purpose is to be horse whipped through the streets by Baam.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Here's some facts on that:

- Goruro acknowledges that not only FUG but that Rev too are working with the Po Bidau
- this seems at odds bc Rev wants the fall of all FH, which would seemingly include Gustang (but there are apparently bigger fish to fry in all the other FH's and most-importantly Zahard himself)
- Bellarir is likely in Rev as he isn't clearly a FUG member, unless underground agent
- Bellarir makes the most sense as the point-of-contact between the Po Bidau and Rev considering he's in both parties and we know they communicate
- As such, Gustang uses Bell and Rev uses Bell - he is set up to be useful, used, integral to both parties - setting up in turn his ability to screw either side (or both)


So, I think it's very highly likely that Gustang not only knows of Rev, but Bell's involvement in it, which may even be sanctioned by Gustang. Gus' history of knowing everything that's going on - including things even Zahard doesn't seem to be aware of - means very little chance he isn't aware of these facts. Or that Bell and Rachel - a continued guest of his only at his discretion - aren't whispering and hanging out a lot.

--- Double Post Merged, May 9, 2023, Original Post Date: May 9, 2023 ---

Rev being controlled by Zahard has been suggested, as has Rev being controlled (created, nurtured, sanctioned unofficially) by Gustang.

What if... Rev was being controlled by Traumerei? Think about it.

 

[Demonspeed]

I still can't understand why anyone would believe that Revolution is controlled by Zahard. Especially when we have seen The Boss who is most likely one of the princes.

 

[King Dryst]

I still can't understand why anyone would believe that Revolution is controlled by Zahard. Especially when we have seen The Boss who is most likely one of the princes.

A general resistance to the idea of anyone from the Tower ever being able to get one over on the Irregulars.

 

[Ignorant]

Adding to my theory that Captains/bosses
Are really working for Zahard to destroy great families and replaced all FHs with members that the empire can control and replace like data zahard did on the data world, captains can use Shiwonryu.
If Wagnan is one of them copies-complete clone
He probably could be a good match for baam in the future.

Zahard son vs V son.

--- Double Post Merged, May 10, 2023, Original Post Date: May 10, 2023 ---

Remember what real Zahard say to Data zahard
A king is alone at the top, everyone has to be below him, no equal(FHs), that’s the idea he has about what mean to be king.

After that, Data zahard deleted the others
And who was that one with a plan to stop that?

Gustang and Edhan.


Edhan has maschenny helping Baam
(Again, like in data world”

 

[Demonspeed]

A general resistance to the idea of anyone from the Tower ever being able to get one over on the Irregulars.

Still would be very strange. Plus, it's not like they have been portrayed as a superior organization or something.

The only way I can see Zahard "leading" them is by allowing certain things thanks to his causality perception ability. That's how he manipulated Khell Hellam. But considering what happened at the Nest, it is unlikely.

As of now, I am wondering if Gustang and Traumerei know about them. It wouldn't be surprising if Gustang did but I am not sure for Traumerei.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2023, Original Post Date: May 11, 2023 ---

Adding to my theory that Captains/bosses
Are really working for Zahard to destroy great families and replaced all FHs with members that the empire can control and replace like data zahard did on the data world, captains can use Shiwonryu.
If Wagnan is one of them copies-complete clone
He probably could be a good match for baam in the future.

Zahard son vs V son.

--- Double Post Merged, May 10, 2023, Original Post Date: May 10, 2023 ---

Remember what real Zahard say to Data zahard
A king is alone at the top, everyone has to be below him, no equal(FHs), that’s the idea he has about what mean to be king.

After that, Data zahard deleted the others
And who was that one with a plan to stop that?

Gustang and Edhan.


Edhan has maschenny helping Baam
(Again, like in data world”

Zahard didn't consider the others equal to him. He was stronger, their leader and is now the king.

During this arc it was said that Baam is the only one who could reach Zahard's level. By both Data Zahard and Data Eduan.

 

[Fortress of Solitude]

Why would Zahard want a war when he's shown so much how his goals are to preserve the status quo? SQ with him at the peak I might add. Upsetting that puts his throne at risk, particularly with Baam in the Tower, no?

Zahard wants a war, he sent Yasratcha to destroy the wall of peace coexistence also he gave three order who are impossible to complete.
Zahard plays the good and Fug plays the bad that the status quo!
Baam is not a problem yet only Gustang because Zahard knows that Gustang knows his secret...

He doesn't tolerate fools. He thinks her actions are useful to him yet

Rachel is one of the Administrators' minion he has to babysit her.

Goruro acknowledges that not only FUG but that Rev too are working with the Po Bidau

Ha Jingsun seems to not believe it...

Gus' history of knowing everything that's going on - including things even Zahard doesn't seem to be aware of - means very little chance he isn't aware of these facts

Probably only Zahard, Gustang, Luslec, Edhan, Arlen, Rachel and Ryun know the real matter maybe someone else that we have never see too.
For now no one wants to show that in public.

If Wagnan is one of them copies-complete clone
He probably could be a good match for baam in the future.

What do you think about the sword who appeared in the hidden world and demand him to kill someone?

But considering what happened at the Nest, it is unlikely.

It's work great! Baam is close to him. That the only matter.
Traumerei said he will use Baam in the war, he have an opportunity now: he hides himself in the ship and when Baam escape and reach the Ark of knowledge he attacks from the inside!

 

[Ignorant]

Zahard didn't consider the others equal to him. He was stronger, their leader and is now the king.

During this arc it was said that Baam is the only one who could reach Zahard's level. By both Data Zahard and Data Eduan.

He clearly does! has nothing to do with being stronger
They grow together, climb together, they are irregulars etc.

he said it himself to Traumerei:

(Gustang seems to think that latest irregular might be someone special “like us” in the future.) chapter 134 S3


Zahard is that one behind revolutionaries
And the captains/bosses are just using Baam
To destroy 10 FH so Zahard can be alone at the top

What do you think about the sword who appeared in the hidden world and demand him to kill someone?

The sword appear when real Zahard appeared
Wagnan is a clone of Zahard or a son
But somehow it was Wagnan the chosen not other parts like captains/bosses
He is the only one being called “princes”
And there’s just only one King.
Captains can use Shinsu Black sphere too
That means that Wagnan probably can learn it too.

That means that Zahard is trying to make Baam “face Him” through Wagnan and like that he didn’t risk himself

Right now this is all theories
But for me it probably going to be like that.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2023, Original Post Date: May 11, 2023 ---

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2023 ---

Ps: @Demonspeed i think you are not agains the theory of Zahard being behid Revs.
I just added the picture to add context to my explanation and for the others.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2023 ---

Wagnan goal is to be King one day no?

Zahard trying to give his prince the kingdom
So he can be/play god” ?

 

[Demonspeed]

All the Irregulars are obviously special but Zahard considers himself superior to them and is their king. He wanted to become king to be superior to others.

Anyway, this isn't a big deal. I am not exactly against the theory, it just seems way too complicated to me if Zahard really wants to kill the other FHs.

I at least don't believe that he is the founder or something. At best, he is using them in the same way he used Khell Hellam.

As for Wangnan being the only "prince" I am not sure of that. We don't know much about the others and Karaka has a ring as well so he should be a prince too. I don't remember if we have seen a ring on The Boss but he probably has one.

I do think that Wangnan has something special compared to the other princes but it hasn't been revealed yet.

 

[Ignorant]

I do think Zahard can charge on 2 of the heads at the same time as long as they are out of the top 5 GW

Zahard couldn’t win agains 2 Great warriors
Arlene and V

It was only when the others joined him.

Best way even if is more complicate is making them fight each other and with this we finally confirm that FH can kill each other.

Break their friendship, divide them cause if they get together he is done or at least the empire.

He don’t want baam to support any of them
Bc could put him in the same situation
He was before with Arlene and V

 

[Demonspeed]

There is a difference between a war and a fight. I don't think Zahard is so strong that he can defeat any of the GW 2 VS 1.

 

[Ignorant]

It was him that one who needed help iirc.

 

[Consul N]

Zahard didn't consider the others equal to him. He was stronger, their leader and is now the king.

Zahard only considers the family heads equal according to Kallavan.

 

[King Dryst]

Zahard only considers the family heads equal according to Kallavan.

I wouldn't imagine Kallavan to know much of anything about what really goes in in the mind of Zahard. I'd be surprised if he's ever even been allowed to speak to the man.

 

[Ignorant]

Gustang said the same thing to Urek.

--- Double Post Merged, May 12, 2023, Original Post Date: May 12, 2023 ---

And Zahard but obviously The king have his rank above them and have a bigger influence for sure also he is more powerful than the rest of them

But lets say that every FH go agains Zahard
How many floor he is losing influence? Almost every floor cause these floor are totally controlled by FHs
He was considered King when the rest of the GW sided with agains Arlene and V.

Is just one FH openly agains Him and and we can see the concern throughout the tower.

--- Double Post Merged, May 12, 2023 ---

They are in the same category as leaders of big and powerful families but also as irregulars
They are also immortal like him and human like him.

 

[Wha]

Like that LPB guy said - they basically are FUG - so i would assume that it involves everyone that has got a problem with the current system and has the balls to do something about it.

Now here is the thing - those reasons could differ greatly from person to person. So it's possible that within that group are numerous smaller groups. Like with FUG.

So let's say they really want to destroy all the heads and Zahard - it wouldn't change much. Instead of the god like irregulars, you would have people like Adori calling the shots (if they want to).
And they had to kill Bam at one point too, because they can't be sure that he won't force his will on them.



It could also really be a Zahard Family plot - for multiple reasons. There are still the 3 unfulfilled orders of Zahard. One of them was the eradication of FUG. Which is difficult, because many of them hide inside the shadows. So you send some undercover cops to clean up your house.
Either they created this Revolution movement, or they infiltrated it. Or something else.
You could also try to lure out Traitors of the Bidau family, promising them this or that, use them against their head and then deal with them.

You think she can play Gustang?

Depends on how you play him. Gustang and his "bug" talk stems probably from his own inferiority complex. Always the Number2. All other heads we know of have something special, being the best in the tower in certain areas.
He is a really good wave controller - Blossom is said to be better. He knows how to use spells - Arlene was said to be the best regarding them.
And he is a genius researcher, but he is no Masceth.

So yeah, i believe that she might be able to play with his ego if she uses the right tactics. Purely theoretically.

 

[sazon]

Who is in 'Rev'? Who runs it? Who started it? When/at what point? How big is it? Who is NOT in it? What are their end goals - particularly for Baam? Will they completely merge with FUG? Will they be wiped out or integral moving forward after this arc (LPB mothership)? etc

I wouldn't expect much from these revolutionaries.

Most must be people who don't understand FUG's passivity all this time or idiots with a daddy/mommy issue.

They'll be over soon, whether it's just being a means to that captain's plan or being destroyed by Baam or some other FH.

 

[Rak]

You think she can play Gustang? Well, maybe she thinks she can. I'm just going to laugh when her big three wishes turn out to be a complete monkey's paw. That man ain't giving her worthless ass a damned thing.

I'm a bit off topic, but I have been wondering about that. Rachel is still an irregular on paper. She does not have the strengh, but she may have the fate.
Yet, Gustang called her a cockroach (or whatever), yet he still benefited from her (and not many can be that useful to him). She is clearly special. Gustang can't see it ?

Rachel may be an insufferable character, but I see her has having a lot of fate/potential to impact the story. She is an irregular after all. She is even an irregular among irregulars.