Discussion Was OGowther a demon?

[Mighty Escanor]

Among the 10C of the current timeline, just 6 of them were truly demons. So the question is if there were non-demon commandments among the ancient 10C too. Calmodios with his striking similarities with giants is a good candidate for being such a member, not to mention that Mera the snake was also present 3000 years ago.

But let's talk about Gowther. He was once a member of the 10C, and he was in love with Glarisa, another demon, and yet, none of these facts can prove he was a demon. NnT is filled with lovers of different races. Human x Giant, Human x Fairy, Demon x Goddess, Fairy x Giant, and Demon x Vampire.

Although there might naturally be no need to doubt a character's race, there is one thing suspicious about the way OGowther is depicted in the manga. In order to explain it better, I first address a conversation between Dolor and Gloxinia in chapter 235, where their commandments are taken from them after refusing to join the demon side. At first, Gloxinia's eyes get back to normal, and then, while Dolor asks him to check if the mark on his butt has gone too, Gloxinia tells Dolor that his eyes are back to normal, so he is sure the mark is gone too.

Back to OGowther, we've never seen him without his demon mark except in chapter 282. He is standing happily besides Glarisa, and ironically enough, his eyes are closed! It makes me wonder why Nakaba has decided to draw that panel in that way. Was it really a random occurrence, or he didn't want us to see his eyes in his pre-commandment state?

In my opinion, he is more likely a member of a humanoid clan, like Druids or Belialuin. What do you guys thing about his clan? Do you see any possibility of him being a commandment of non-demonic origin too?

 

[Estarossa173]

It could go either way: he may or may not be a commandment from demonic origin. But I’m leaning more towards not.

Mainly because of what you said with the whole demon mark thing.

But I do have a question: since when does being incompatible with a commandment result in taking ones ability to walk away? Or for the that matter: can a human, fairy, or giant even be incompatible with a commandment (I’m talking having one commandment, not multiple)?

 

[Shadowlord123]

It could be a possibility, but I don't think someone as dangerous and powerful as him could be a member of another clan like the humans. I mean, the dude basically overwrote everyone's memories in the Holy War (even the Gods), he easily subdued Melascula with one hand and was also confident in fighting Zeldris. Not only that, but he also was put into prison by the DK. Honestly, I have my doubts that someone as powerful and dangerous as him could belong to another clan that wasn't the demons. I could be wrong of course, this is only my opinion.

 

[T25]

He was really strong in magic, and because of that, I also think being human is a bit irrational. But there are humanoid clans specifically trained in magic, and Gowther's magic is nothing similar to that of the ordinary or top tier demons too. It's not related to darkness and stuff like that.
There is also at least one other very strong character in NnT universe who is not a demon nor goddess and her tremendous power is supposed to frighten the gods; the mother of chaos. So insanely high levels of power might not be exclusive to the DC or GC, just some speculations though.

Deri’s combo star. Mon’s trick star. (Heh a couple of stars) Nothing to do with darkness. Theyre just magic abilities. I don’t believe an innate magic necessarily has anything to do with race per se. The dcs darkness and gcs light are biological traits.

Ah the giants are an exemption to this aren’t they?

 

[T25]

So what? What is your post supposed to accomplish? I really don't get it. Was it me who used hellblaze fire so many times before even using trick star? Whose body was covered in darkness and who had a hand completely made of pure darkness? You can't find any kind of dark magic or a tiny bit of darkness surrounding Gowther. Dark limbs, dark wings, dark ribbons, dark whatever, none of them are present there. Even Dolor was able to use PoD to fly, and Gowther was always sitting on a chair. Neither Gowther himself nor the doll has never showed any ability like those of other demons throughout the entire manga. And yet, just because two of the 10C who happen to be the ones with the ability to turn into indura and show how darkness dwells inside them have some darkness independent magic abilities too, we should waste our time discussing about that?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2018 ---

Edited the main post to only focus on the matter of his species, so no unnecessary discussion may happen again in the thread. Please ignore the whole thread if you are so obsessed with focusing on the small details and let go of the main subject. Thanks.

....what?

The point of this thread you’ve created is to question the original gowthers origins as a demon correct?
You have questioned this providing that in the very small and brief instances of his depiction, he has not displayed an application of darkness correct?
You have provided that his magic is unique in that it is “not related to darkness” correct?

Meliodas a full, highborn prince of demons showed no application of darkness unless he willed it. Capable of turning his mark off to reveal natural green eyes.

Galan showed his use of darkness one time. No application of darkness other than a one time use of wings. Correct?

Zeldris, the same as Mel.

Glarisa we can see the existence of darkness but her eyes are not black.

You spoke of gowthers magic in relation to darkness. Deris magic was to amplify her strength in series. Monspiets magic was to control the placement of matter to a certain degree. Fraudrins magic made himself bigger amplifying his power. Chandlers magic reflects attacks. Cusacks magic enable him to take control over others bodies. The Demon Kings magic inverts, nullifies and or absorbs attacks against him. None of these are necessarily “related” to darkness. Yet they are demons.

On a related note

Gowthers smile

Meliodas smile

The supports you used to back up the possibility of the original Gowther’s alternate origin had been met with what I believed to be obstacles presented by me. How had my comment deviated rather than advanced the discussion at hand?

 

[M3J]

Nope, he wasn't.

 

[T25]

@T25 I have to admit it was my fault theorizing in the main post, which made the discussion go into the exact same rout as the weekly ones. We can now talk about how Galan used darkness to attach his body parts after receiving Escanor's blow. Then we should continue with the formal logic and reconsider the difference between "a then b" and "b then a". Using this, we should talk about the fundamental difference between a demon having normal eyes, and a temporarily ally of them having black eyes. Before we even know, math comes into play and the whole discussion becomes whose PL is bigger, 10 commandment Oslow or 4 grace Hawk-chan. At the end, we are all discussing if Ludo is able to travel at the speed of light, and if so, can Zel being able to move faster than him prove Einstein's special theory of relativity wrong?

The new post lack that part of my stupidity, and calls for less relevant and off-topic discussions too. But still, I'd be more satisfied to have merely posted my thoughts without getting any response than to end up making a Dogedo PL discussion thread myself.

I understand your curiosity and your decisiveness in avoiding deviation.

My intent was never to deviate but to present a case in which the possibility you present regarding gowthers origin may not ultimately be the case. I did so by way of presenting contradictory notions of the firmness of foundation you had set to back up the possibility. I do not disregard that the possibility is there.

So I would like to ask, is your desire for this thread to discuss wether gowther is a demon and all that relates? Or is it to discuss pure possibility as you can derive somehow disregarding dc birth?

 

[HereNThere]

Not really. I think he's a demon.

That being said, it is an interesting detail to notice that he hasn't explicitly been called a demon. Even Nakaba only calls him Ten Commandment's Gowther. That being said, his first appearance implied that he was a demon and Nakaba's notes seem to imply it as well, but I don't trust Nakaba to keep consistent with things more than 50 chapters ago. Hell, OGowther still had his Commandment in DGowther's Gaiden, but according to Zeldris, he took it sometime before his death due to his not being loyal like Glox and Dolor, not because he was dead.

 

[Gut's is the man]

What else would he be? He's lived too long as to be human, he's not a giant, not a fairy, and well he could be a goddess I don't see why that is anywhere remotely likely.

 

[Kay3795]

He's a Demon. One of the most impressive Demons, whom the Demon God deemed worthy, whose power might be capable of giving Zeldris a run for his money.

 

[BurlapJack]

Among the 10C of the current timeline, just 6 of them were truly demons. So the question is if there were non-demon commandments among the ancient 10C too. Calmodios with his striking similarities with giants is a good candidate for being such a member, not to mention that Mera the snake was also present 3000 years ago.

But let's talk about Gowther. He was once a member of the 10C, and he was in love with Glarisa, another demon, and yet, none of these facts can prove he was a demon. NnT is filled with lovers of different races. Human x Giant, Human x Fairy, Demon x Goddess, Fairy x Giant, and Demon x Vampire.

Although there might naturally be no need to doubt a character's race, there is one thing suspicious about the way OGowther is depicted in the manga. In order to explain it better, I first address a conversation between Dolor and Gloxinia in chapter 235, where their commandments are taken from them after refusing to join the demon side. At first, Gloxinia's eyes get back to normal, and then, while Dolor asks him to check if the mark on his butt has gone too, Gloxinia tells Dolor that his eyes are back to normal, so he is sure the mark is gone too.

Back to OGowther, we've never seen him without his demon mark except in chapter 282. He is standing happily besides Glarisa, and ironically enough, his eyes are closed! It makes me wonder why Nakaba has decided to draw that panel in that way. Was it really a random occurrence, or he didn't want us to see his eyes in his pre-commandment state?

In my opinion, he is more likely a member of a humanoid clan, like Druids or Belialuin. What do you guys thing about his clan? Do you see any possibility of him being a commandment of non-demonic origin too?

Thing is about demon marks is that they can be deactivated like mel' zel and derrieri

 

[T25]

I might've gotten too much irritated after reading your first post, so I apologize if I misunderstood your point. If you used the examples in your second post from the start, I would never mistook it as a purely deceptive one. Examples like Fraudrin which fully oppose my assumption, or that one about the drawing style of smiling faces were in fact interesting. But the star duo example was just too much. They are fully stained with darkness and only their innate magics are visually different as you described It made your post seem misleading and unrelated.

In fact, your post could be the most rational and amazing one if the examples were picked more appropriately. However, I ask for your forgiveness for overreacting to your post once again, but I really dislike unnecessary derailments, and I was really afraid that one such thing is developing here too. Maybe just a baseless fear.

Haha I understand. It’s fine.

I would like to point out though that I believe my reference to the star duo may arguably be my strongest example. It was specifically various traits of a dc member that you didn’t notice in gowther that you had come to question his origin correct? The star duo exhibited these qualities abundantly. As such, you didn’t feel all that much need to question their origin, may I assume? Especially considering the indura you noted furthering confirming their origin, so to speak. So how does the nature of gowthers magic compare to a pair of the most exemplary examples of demonhood? The answer is that they are the same. The demon-in-question’s magic has little to do with darkness just like these most exemplary examples’ magic has little to do with darkness. What better way to analyze characteristics than comparing them to an actual demon? What do you think?

 

[kkck]

Given how things played out odds we have no reason to think he wasn't a demon. And even if we saw him with his eyes closed... thats not an indication of his demon status. The black eyes only appear when demon's darkness is activated, it isn't a constant. So a lack of black eyes isn't an indication of someone not being a demon per say. Too add to that, demons are incredibly varied in their appearance. So... barring actually specific traits from other races, its not really evidence of what they could originally be. Kalmadios is gigantic in size, even bigger than a giant, but he also has traits from normal demons as far as I can tell.