WB Pirates Discussion Thread

[kkck]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

The commanders shown were for the most part very proficient haki users and more than a match for the admirals and people like mihawk. How can they be weak in the least? Or at least weak in comparison to whom? Do you remember the ease with which kizaru took the supernova and the strawhats? In particular how the very possibility of them fighting back was non existent? They are not weak in the least.

 

[zerocooldx]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

The commanders shown were for the most part very proficient haki users and more than a match for the admirals and people like mihawk. How can they be weak in the least? Or at least weak in comparison to whom? Do you remember the ease with which kizaru took the supernova and the strawhats? In particular how the very possibility of them fighting back was non existent? They are not weak in the least.

The Division Commanders were not more then a match for the Admirals. lolz Give me a break. Aokiji took out Joz seemingly without even breaking a sweat. And Marco was being teased and taunted by Kizaru while they fought. Then later on both Marco and Vista, attacking at the same time, couldn't even put a scratch on Akainu. As a matter of fact as far as i recall none of the Division Commanders were able to use their Haki to even inflict actual damage to any the Admirals. And Vista simply locking swords with Hawkeyes and being recognized by him means absolutely nothing. Everyone at some point crossed paths with everyone else in the war. The only difference is that if the characters had fought for long enough a clear and decisive winner would have been decided. No the top Division Commanders, Marco, Joz and Vista, are not weak by any means. But they couldn't hold a candle to an Admiral or Hawkeyes had they had an actual battle against them. So to me the top Division Commanders are, at the very least, on a similar level as Vice Admirals. Which in no way makes them weak.

 

[kkck]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

How do you know aokiji did not break a sweat? We saw the final moments of the match only, that is not to say aokiji had an easy time. Marco also took a few hard hits without his ability at some point and he still kept fighting.

 

[zerocooldx]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

How do you know aokiji did not break a sweat? We saw the final moments of the match only, that is not to say aokiji had an easy time. Marco also took a few hard hits without his ability at some point and he still kept fighting.

At the end of the war the only Admiral who had literally taken any real damage was Akainu, which was directly from WB himself. While Kizaru and Aokiji were literally unscathed. And even Hawkeyes seemed to ve pretty much untouched as well. Yet Joz was frozen solid and apparently detached from his arm. And Marco took a few laser beams through the chest and both he and Vista had some cuts and bruises and what not. Point being is that there is no real argument to be made that the top WB Division Commanders are even in the same league as the Admirals. If that were true then this war would have definitely turned out much differently. Comparing the top Division Commanders to the Vice Admirals is far more appropriate and even a complement of sorts. Because the VA's went through the war with reliantly little if any injuries themsevles. And were, along with the Admirals, the only Marines on the battle field to withstand WB's quakes without too much effort.

 

[kkck]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

How do you know they had not taken any damage? Certainly akainu had taken the most damage but we have no reason to believe the other admirals had not taken damage. If I recall, jozu gave aokiji a good hit and marco overpowered kizaru at the beginning of the war for a bit. Not to mention the marines in general had the advantage, they had prepared the entire place for the way. It was the WB pirates in general who had to break through everything the marines had.

 

[Fox666]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

Aokiji was bleeding after Aokiji attack. And precisely that page doesn't show a injure on Aokiji face?

Of course, he was took by surprise while fighting Whitebeard. So I wouldn't take that hit in count, since later Aokiji displayed great superiority.

However, the Vice-Admirals were quite incompetent. And Momonga seems to need a lot of effort to keep his feet on grounp after Whitebeard quake. I wouldn't compare Marco or Jozu to them (to say the truth I think that they eat Vice-Admirals in the breakfast).

 

[kulugo]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

marines > WB
wb + other yonkou = marines + shichi

if this were to happen
WB > marines
then it is not balanced.
therefore
admirals > wb commanders
i guess..

 

[St Michael]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

Aokiji was bleeding after Aokiji attack. And precisely that page doesn't show a injure on Aokiji face?

Of course, he was took by surprise while fighting Whitebeard. So I wouldn't take that hit in count, since later Aokiji displayed great superiority.

Jozu was defeated by surprise too ..

And Marco was double teamed by Kizaru + Doberman with Kairouseki.

How weak they are ..

 

[happy GIN smily]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

it was obvious that the WB-pirates could not win that battle. and it was also obvious that WB had to die for the "New Era"

but what dissapointed me, was the fact that besides of Jozu, Marco and Vista, no single Commander was worth to be remembered. they were only posing arround on many panels. and in the end none of them showed any power. just posing is not enough

 

[kkck]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

Aokiji was bleeding after Aokiji attack. And precisely that page doesn't show a injure on Aokiji face?

Of course, he was took by surprise while fighting Whitebeard. So I wouldn't take that hit in count, since later Aokiji displayed great superiority.

However, the Vice-Admirals were quite incompetent. And Momonga seems to need a lot of effort to keep his feet on grounp after Whitebeard quake. I wouldn't compare Marco or Jozu to them (to say the truth I think that they eat Vice-Admirals in the breakfast).

When were the VAs shown to be incompetent? We barely even saw them at all. Only one that was shown was John Giant being taken out by WB. We did see momonga and the other guy taking luffy out but I kinda doubt that counts when considering how strong the VAs are supposed to be.

---

it was obvious that the WB-pirates could not win that battle. and it was also obvious that WB had to die for the "New Era"

but what dissapointed me, was the fact that besides of Jozu, Marco and Vista, no single Commander was worth to be remembered. they were only posing arround on many panels. and in the end none of them showed any power. just posing is not enough

I don't think that was obvious at all. The marines had an advantageous position from the start though. They had already prepared marineford for the war and had many traps set in place. The WB pirates had to break through them which was not easy feat.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

To Dark God Zeus : It is just you

 

[Fox666]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

wb + other yonkou = marines + shichi

This is actually not true. It's a misunderstand from the chapter where Garp introduce the Yonkou.

What actually happen is Marines = Shichibukai = Yonkou

If you remember Shanks and Whitebeard meeting, the marines were afraid of a contact beetween them. In other words, the Yonkou are prohibited from having alliances.

Of course this means that if the Yonkou were all united they would be superior to the Marines of Shichibukai. But we can' tell how much strong the Yonkou would be or if it would match the power of the two organizations united. Not to say that the Yonkou are enemies of eachother, and the kinds of Shanks and Kaidou seems to have very different ideologies, so a Yonkou alliance is very unlikely.

When were the VAs shown to be incompetent? We barely even saw them at all. Only one that was shown was John Giant being taken out by WB. We did see momonga and the other guy taking luffy out but I kinda doubt that counts when considering how strong the VAs are supposed to be.

Yeah, these are 2 against 1. Not to say that Luffy was half-dead without Gear 2.

We barely saw them, but we saw. All we can tell for now is that Doflamingo easily use them as toys and Whitebeard can take down one of them with a single hit. So I don't know what do you mean with "how strong the VAs are supposed to be"... =/

 

[Ashura_Ichibugin]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

Jozu was defeated by surprise too ..

And Marco was double teamed by Kizaru + Doberman with Kairouseki.

How weak they are ..

The one that double teamed Marco was Onigumo, not Doberman.

And if assembled forces of marines (+shichi) were beaten by just one pirate crew and its allies, they would be a joke.

They are not weak at all, the strongest crew members can hold their own against an admiral, and I am sure in his prime Whitebeard could beat any of the admirals.

So, probably it is just you.

 

[zerocooldx]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

How do you know they had not taken any damage? Certainly akainu had taken the most damage but we have no reason to believe the other admirals had not taken damage. If I recall, jozu gave aokiji a good hit and marco overpowered kizaru at the beginning of the war for a bit. Not to mention the marines in general had the advantage, they had prepared the entire place for the way. It was the WB pirates in general who had to break through everything the marines had.

Simply looking at the Admiral's faces and bodies is a good way to see if they had received any real damage. Especially when everyone else that was around them had blood or bruises on their faces or bodies. Knocking down or breaking apart the Admirals without actually damaging them means nothing. Marco kicked Kizaru and Aokiji yet both were completely unharmed. Even some guy with a spiky ball and chain managed to rip through Kizaru. Luffy and the SH's were able to do the same things when they first fought Aokiji. The main point is that the WB Division Commanders never really harmed the Admirals. There were several instances of the Admirals having their bodies torn apart or knocked down. Crocodile was able to cut Akainu in half, now does that really mean anything? No. Just like Apoo cutting Kizaru in half meant nothing. It all comes down to actual harm being done to the Admirals, and aside from Akainu, Kizaru and Aokiji and even Hawkeyes seemed to he relatively unharmed.

 

[ThunderCrash]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

I expected more from them, too. I wanted the heavy weights from the WB pirates to show super-speed, but they moved like any other people in One Piece. I expected Vista to cut in half the island when fighting Mihawk, yet he barely scratched the ice; Doma, Thunderlord, Decalvan and the others were pretty weak too; they should have defeated those low level marines in no time, yet they had a hard time making their way to the scaffold. The only pirates that didn't dissapont me that much were Jozu and Whitebead.

I love One Piece, but I think Oda need some kind of power levels to keep straight this story, or at least to know how to balance the power of the characters. I don't see how Blackbeard without his DF could have stood a fight with Shanks when he barely made it fighting Ace, a guy that didn't withstand Akainu's power, but Shanks did with relatively ease. And this is not a case of a rock-paper-scissors fight like Luffy vs Enel.

 

[St Michael]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

Yeah dude , about super speed , Jozu isn't really a slow character and Marco outspeeded Kizaru in the air.

Re-read the chapters..

The rest wasn't weak , they had to make their way through thousands (thousands !) of the strongest marine soldiers.

edit : about the VA : WB pwned a couple of them in no time.
edit 2 : --> http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c569/9.html

 

[zerocooldx]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

Yeah dude , about super speed , Jozu isn't really a slow character and Marco outspeeded Kizaru in the air.

Re-read the chapters..

The rest wasn't weak , they had to make their way through thousands (thousands !) of the strongest marine soldiers.

edit : about the VA : WB pwned a couple of them in no time.
edit 2 : --> http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c569/9.html

None of these VA's were harmed by WB or anyone else really. And they seem to be the "best" VA's, aside from Garp that is. Also the Marines that WB did take out in that link don't seem to be VA's. The only VA's that WB took out i believe were Ronse and John Giant. But even between VA's there clearly seems to be a difference in strength.

 

[Haynes]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

Although the Vice Admirals are candidates for Admirals, there is a huge gap between power levels. I would put the top comanders of the Whitebeard Pirates above the VA's. Simply because they proved they could fight the Admirals and Shichibukai. The top commanders that we know of are Marco, Ace, Joze, and Vista. Though none of their battles lasted long, I think we can assume the Admirals would have won but it wouldn't have been easy.

 

[St Michael]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

None of these VA's were harmed by WB or anyone else really. And they seem to be the "best" VA's, aside from Garp that is. Also the Marines that WB did take out in that link don't seem to be VA's. The only VA's that WB took out i believe were Ronse and John Giant. But even between VA's there clearly seems to be a difference in strength.

I insist. Look carefully the link I posted. You'll see that a couple (if not more) of VA are sent flying.

I doubt that WB would pwn opponents as strong as his top captain so easily. VA (minus Garp) are pretty much fodder for him. The same for the admirals and probably for Jozu , Marco and Vista.

 

[zerocooldx]

Re: Is it just me, or were the Whitebear pirates rather weak?

I insist. Look carefully the link I posted. You'll see that a couple (if not more) of VA are sent flying.

I doubt that WB would pwn opponents as strong as his top captain so easily. VA (minus Garp) are pretty much fodder for him. The same for the admirals and probably for Jozu , Marco and Vista.

I looked at all of those Marines that were sent flying and compared them to all of the known VA's and they don't seem to match up. You can look for yourself here. Either way though the "main" VA's that were shown here with Momonga seem to be fairly strong. At least stronger then the other VA's that got no real face time and were taken out quickly. All of those guys can use Haki plus they know Rokushiki and are undoubtedly master at it. So I compare them to a Haki using and overall stronger version of Lucci. While guys like Marco, Vista and Joz are strong but they never managed to injure or take out anyone worth mentioning throughout the entire war. To me they basically did the same thing as Crocodile. Which was going around and attacking almost everyone but not really managing to do anything significant to anyone important while they themselves still ended up receiving damage.