Match Weekly Match-up thread (Fuji vs Seda)

[Hardy]

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winner

Mares de Colón

34th Round:

We are back and with one Math's suggestions. Can Fuji stand a chance against Spain's troublemaker?

Picture	Fuji Hardy Jan 15, 2024	Seda Hardy May 13, 2024
Name	Fuji Shuusuke	Seda
Title	Genius	Troublemaker
Rank	No. 9 (MSer Year 3)	Spain Representative (MSer Year 1)
Height	167cm	-
Weight	53 kg	-
Dominant Hand	Right	Right (Ambidextrous?)
Playstyle	Counter puncher	-
Stat Total	18	?
Speed	3	?
Power	3	?
Stamina	3	?
Mental	4	?
Technique	5	?
Techniques / Styles	Phoenix Return (1st+) Kirin Drop (2nd+) White Dragon (3rd+) Dragonfly Illusion (4th) Gate Keeper of Hecatoncheires (5th) Star Fireworks (6th) Closed Eyes Hollyhock Blizzard Light Wind Kitsune Fireball	Reverse Copy Olympian Iris' Light

Fuji's 10.5 profile.

Fuji's 23.5 profile.

Fuji's Tenipuri Party profile.

Zeus' 23.5 profile

"I'm not listing Seda's hypnosis since he seemingly stopped using it and it can be countered with freaking ear plugs.

...tho, for all intents and purposes, he can play aggressively as he did against Japan."

Will add a poll on Wednesday.

 

[Hardy]

Irie’s pseudo TnK doesn’t work against ZST because it basically nullifies it.

On the other hand, it’s not like Irie has anything imo that can shake up Yuki. Yukimura with ZST breaks TnK, Irie doesn’t have anything else aside from that and even if he gets serious Yukimura did give Tezuka a good match, a man who can also beat Irie too.

Yukimura has Mirage Mirror but I doubt how that helps him vs Irie. I reckon that his future gets stolen in the long run because you can’t basically escape from it even if you have high mental (Tezuka also has high mental and fell for it too).

Yukimura wins in the long run, Yips might kick in sooner on later even if Irie activates TnK, but Yukimura has also great defense because he can just return back all of Irie’s shots. He is also more agressive now that he’s fully healed so offensively he has more weapons too.

Yukimura wins this.

Zero Sense Tennis doesn't really negate TnK, it evens the field for Yukimura's rally. Irie still gets the buff and, most importantly for the comparison, the sick serve (whereas Yukimura doesn't get anything like that). Mirage Mirror does help Yukimura's defense further and gives him a finisher though, yes.

A big part of Yukimura managing to perform at such a high level against Tezuka was all the data he had (which buffed pretty much all his techniques) and an incredibly high concentration level he doubts he can match again. Irie's acting does the opposite for Yukimura: he lowers his opponent's focus and he could become unreadable, and as such his future may not be stolen.

Irie does have a high level of something like Insight based as he showed in his match with Atobe and the confidence he (and the coaches?) had in them achieving howling. This combined with his high stats (his is Speed and Mental are elite and above Yukimura's) do give him tools to score. I find it hard to believe he'd be on the backfoot against Yukimura in a rally, honestly.

 

[ShadowHeart]

Irie to much for Yukimura honestly.

 

[Hardy]

Honestly I really like this match up, I have no idea who to vote for.

Something funny is that Irie calls himself a singles player but the fact that he can get himself in a pinch whenever he wants makes him potentially really good at achieving stuff like Howlings. I reckon that, with the same logic, he can easily use regular Muga too but that's not really a factor right now. Same applies for Yuushi's Closed Heart / Sanada's In.

It doesn't help much in this either imo but it's implied Irie could score on QP + Tezuka, and since he couldn't win anyway he intentionally got slammed so that Atobe would evolve. It's likely a situation like Kimijima keeping his service games vs the French D2, which would had been a nice feat.

 

[LetalHawk]

Hardy, just one quick question (offtopic), Ryoma vs Irie, do you think it’s too bad of a matchup for Irie? Ryoma beats him that’s for sure but how do you think it would have been?

 

[Hardy]

Hardy, just one quick question (offtopic), Ryoma vs Irie, do you think it’s too bad of a matchup for Irie? Ryoma beats him that’s for sure but how do you think it would have been?

It's kind of on topic tbh.

It needs a lot more leg work to justify Irie beating Ryoma.

We know Irie is TnK rally tier, of course, but so is Kin who would lose to Echizen, according to Shiraishi. Kin seemed rather even in the head to head battle against Yukimura (who was weaker than against Tezuka, sure).

Ryoma's Samurai likely buffs either his Speed, Mental or Technique to Interdimensional levels, which not only seals one of Irie's best stats but also gives him a strong finisher.

We do not know if Irie can hit the SSS to counter Hope either. Now, I suspect that Kaji can hit it and that's the base of his Skanda Drift (and also Oni brought up the GJK instead of settling on the BJK) and Irie maybe only fell for it on the first game they played and won every point after, but that's speculation... on speculation.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Very Interesting

Yukimura admits inferiority to Duke. If we believe his statement, then he is slightly below Official Genius 5 Members (Irie never wear a top 5 badge. He only had 11 and 6)

Since consensus is Duke is the Weakest G5 (excluding Irie)

As for mathchups Irie Vs Yukimura

Irie TNK counters yips. So Irie will not lose senses.

Yukimura's biggest weapon is Dream and Stolen Future. That will be the x factor. How effective will it be against Irie?

I see Mirrage Mirror as Insignificant. It is literally just designed to negate Tezuka Zone and Phantom.

However, for Irie. He might have the same insight of Atobe. He was dominating Pre Finals Atobe 5-0

50-50 for me. Depends if Yuki's dream can capture Irie

 

[Hardy]

Very Interesting

Yukimura admits inferiority to Duke. If we believe his statement, then he is slightly below Official Genius 5 Members (Irie never wear a top 5 badge. He only had 11 and 6)

Since consensus is Duke is the Weakest G5 (excluding Irie)

As for mathchups Irie Vs Yukimura

Irie TNK counters yips. So Irie will not lose senses.

Yukimura's biggest weapon is Dream and Stolen Future. That will be the x factor. How effective will it be against Irie?

I see Mirrage Mirror as Insignificant. It is literally just designed to negate Tezuka Zone and Phantom.

However, for Irie. He might have the same insight of Atobe. He was dominating Pre Finals Atobe 5-0

50-50 for me. Depends if Yuki's dream can capture Irie

When did Irie have the number 6 badge? It was a decent deal for him to earn Date's and stated at the same time he never got to the G-10.

Mirage Mirror was used as a finisher when he played Kintarou/Ohmagari. I guess being able to hit drives with whichever hand opens up possibilities to score.

 

[LetalHawk]

Yukimura can also confuse Irie with Mirage Mirror like he did with Tezuka by changing the way he’s going to hit the shot at the last moment.

I know that Irie’s speed is much higher but Yukimura isn’t slow by any means. Also, I expect honestly that he has a 7 mental judging by Volks comment at this point and his technique might as well be still 6, but him being fully healed should buff his stats.

More like:

Speed: 5
Power: 4
Stamina: 4.5
Mental: 7
Technique: 6

It’s not like Irie outclasses him by any margin except speed.

And even if he gets serious, Yukimura should adapt to Irie going all out eventually. He has the ability to return every shot that comes to him so he will respond to them eventually, also once that happens, Irie might fall for Yips, TnK helps him but Yuki did steal Tezuka’s senses even in TnK so he might as well do the trick here too with ZST.

Also, remembering Yuki’s mental stat description, it said: “With his never ending poker face, the opponent can’t read his emotions”, so Irie’s acting is out of the way here, he should go all out right from the get go otw he gets screwed.

I’m going with Yuki because he really is a wall once he adapts to his opponents. Irie has much more stamina than he showed but Yukimura returning everything back to him might make him fall for Future in the long run.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2023 ---

It's kind of on topic tbh.

It needs a lot more leg work to justify Irie beating Ryoma.

We know Irie is TnK rally tier, of course, but so is Kin who would lose to Echizen, according to Shiraishi. Kin seemed rather even in the head to head battle against Yukimura (who was weaker than against Tezuka, sure).

Ryoma's Samurai likely buffs either his Speed, Mental or Technique to Interdimensional levels, which not only seals one of Irie's best stats but also gives him a strong finisher.

We do not know if Irie can hit the SSS to counter Hope either. Now, I suspect that Kaji can hit it and that's the base of his Skanda Drift (and also Oni brought up the GJK instead of settling on the BJK) and Irie maybe only fell for it on the first game they played and won every point after, but that's speculation... on speculation.

Yeah, Ryoma has much more offensive weapons here, his Samurai is too broken and I doubt Irie can smack back Hope with ease, I even wonder like you said he can hit the SSS. On top of that he also has TnK and

Even if he does, Ryoma has great techniques and the way he never stops attacking would make Irie suffer a lot.

Nowadays Ryoma should beat Irie yes or yes, this matchup is more balanced

 

[Hardy]

Yukimura can also confuse Irie with Mirage Mirror like he did with Tezuka by changing the way he’s going to hit the shot at the last moment.

I know that Irie’s speed is much higher but Yukimura isn’t slow by any means. Also, I expect honestly that he has a 7 mental judging by Volks comment at this point and his technique might as well be still 6, but him being fully healed should buff his stats.

More like:

Speed: 5
Power: 4
Stamina: 4.5
Mental: 7
Technique: 6

It’s not like Irie outclasses him by any margin except speed.

And even if he gets serious, Yukimura should adapt to Irie going all out eventually. He has the ability to return every shot that comes to him so he will respond to them eventually, also once that happens, Irie might fall for Yips, TnK helps him but Yuki did steal Tezuka’s senses even in TnK so he might as well do the trick here too with ZST.

Also, remembering Yuki’s mental stat description, it said: “With his never ending poker face, the opponent can’t read his emotions”, so Irie’s acting is out of the way here, he should go all out right from the get go otw he gets screwed.

I’m going with Yuki because he really is a wall once he adapts to his opponents. Irie has much more stamina than he showed but Yukimura returning everything back to him might make him fall for Future in the long run.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2023 ---

Yeah, Ryoma has much more offensive weapons here, his Samurai is too broken and I doubt Irie can smack back Hope with ease, I even wonder like you said he can hit the SSS. On top of that he also has TnK and

Even if he does, Ryoma has great techniques and the way he never stops attacking would make Irie suffer a lot.

Nowadays Ryoma should beat Irie yes or yes, this matchup is more balanced

The problem is that Irie's Mental is "unmatchable", even if in the camp Tanegashima (and probably Byoudouin without Ki Jin) has a 7. Even if Yukimura got to 7 (which itself is a decently big if) I reckon he can have the slighthest of edges there and avoid falling for any sort of Yips. I do agree Yukimura may not be affected by his acting, though. Yukimura's 23.5 profile does say "his feelings are laid bare" but then goes on and says he has no Mental weakness.

I checked Irie's 23.5 profile to see if it added anything btw and... nope. I got excited when I saw it had a comment from Kaji, only to find out that "we both like sweets so we hang out a lot. He makes great tea". Amazing insight thanks Kaji

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2023 ---

I think if Yukimura could reach the same level of concentration he had against Tezuka, he could barely win this. Otherwise, I give the edge to Irie who will keep his service points more consistently with TnK's serve.

Irie's acting debuff and Yips never activate.

 

[ShadowHeart]

Just can't see how Yukimura wins he's already admitted Genius 5 lvl is too much for him. Irie crushed someone who had the no.5 badge and that's without PoP.

 

[Hardy]

Just can't see how Yukimura wins he's already admitted Genius 5 lvl is too much for him. Irie crushed someone who had the no.5 badge and that's without PoP.

Yukimura never said that. "Genius 5" isn't even a thing outside of this forum.

We don't know if Irie didn't use TnK against Kaji.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

When did Irie have the number 6 badge? It was a decent deal for him to earn Date's and stated at the same time he never got to the G-10.

Mirage Mirror was used as a finisher when he played Kintarou/Ohmagari. I guess being able to hit drives with whichever hand opens up possibilities to score.

Oh yeah. It is 11 only. Anyway, very surprising he never reach 10 when obviously he is stronger than 7-10 with the exception of maybe Ochi who is former #4.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2023 ---

Yukimura never said that. "Genius 5" isn't even a thing outside of this forum.

We don't know if Irie didn't use TnK against Kaji.

I thik he is referring to Yukimura admitting inferiority to Duke during Duke VS Tokugawa.

And based on prev thread, (Duke VS Tane) it is implied that Duke is weakest G5 since consensus is he will lose to Tane, Oni, Toku, and Byo.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2023 ---

Yukimura never said that. "Genius 5" isn't even a thing outside of this forum.

We don't know if Irie didn't use TnK against Kaji.

Kinda off topic. But I really don't know how Kaji got #5. Lmao.

Both times he played. He was crushed and no diffed by Oni and Irie. Lmao.

Kinda embarassing for #5 badge player

 

[Hardy]

I thik he is referring to Yukimura admitting inferiority to Duke during Duke VS Tokugawa.

And based on prev thread, (Duke VS Tane) it is implied that Duke is weakest G5 since consensus is he will lose to Tane, Oni, Toku, and Byo.

Yeah but that doesn't tell us anything about Irie. Yukimura and Sanada are talking about S1 level and Irie dodged that.

Kinda off topic. But I really don't know how Kaji got #5. Lmao.

Both times he played. He was crushed and no diffed by Oni and Irie. Lmao.

Kinda embarassing for #5 badge player

There's just a big gap between the top 3 in Japan (and Oni who abandoned his spot), who are all Aces aiming for number 1, and the rest of the G-10 (except for maybe Ochi). In a way, Kiritani paid the price, too.

Irie might be somewhere in the middle.

It seems like Kaji was some sort of utility player since we know he played doubles with Mouri, and had very clear weak points in his physical side that he greatly improved in the last international game Japan had before the WC (and maybe his partners needed to cover that). Probably a bit better than Ohmagari at singles but not doubles.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2023 ---

Poll is up

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Yeah but that doesn't tell us anything about Irie. Yukimura and Sanada are talking about S1 level and Irie dodged that.



There's just a big gap between the top 3 in Japan (and Oni who abandoned his spot), who are all Aces aiming for number 1, and the rest of the G-10 (except for maybe Ochi). In a way, Kiritani paid the price, too.

Irie might be somewhere in the middle.

It seems like Kaji was some sort of utility player since we know he played doubles with Mouri, and had very clear weak points in his physical side that he greatly improved in the last international game Japan had before the WC (and maybe his partners needed to cover that). Probably a bit better than Ohmagari at singles but not doubles.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2023 ---

Poll is up

I see. Then Irie is below Genius 5 level too.

So that evens him and Yukimura

Maybe they are same tier.

I am not sure how much Yuki's Dream and Future Steal will effect on Irie though.

But for the sake of question. I will probably lean on Irie just because he is dominating Pre Finals Atobe who imo is just slightly below Yukimura.

But i can see the case for Yuki

 

[Hardy]

I see. Then Irie is below Genius 5 level too.

So that evens him and Yukimura

Maybe they are same tier.

I am not sure how much Yuki's Dream and Future Steal will effect on Irie though.

But for the sake of question. I will probably lean on Irie just because he is dominating Pre Finals Atobe who imo is just slightly below Yukimura.

But i can see the case for Yuki

Idk, pre-finals Atobe lost games to Yuushi who hasn't been relevant since the Nationals where he barely won against Momo. Sure, his confidence was shaken but that should had never happened. A day before Yukimura could rally (and keep his serve) against TnK Tezuka whereas Atobe explicitly couldn't, he had to train with Dorgias first.

If Yukimura could somehow get any sort of data out of Irie, he would get his Zero Senses Tennis buffed and stand a much better chance. But, based on 10.5 and Fuji commenting in 23.5 that people say they are very similar, I imagine Irie has the same sort of "aura" in him that doesn't allow people to get any data. Going with Irie because of that and TnK' serve.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2023 ---

Not on topic but since it happened here:

@LetalHawk remember this post?

Current Tezuka (December 1st or earlier, a week later?):

Total: 26 (+2.5)
Speed: 5
Power: 4
Stamina: 5
Mental: 5
Technique: 7

It was bugging me a lot that it didn't fit the timelines Konomi had given us in the past in all the fanbooks (for example, here it says that the battle against the G-10 was in November and the pickup battle was at the start of December). So I went back to 370 and saw a mistake in what I translated: The date is Dec 2Xth not Dec 2nd. The current matches are likely around Ryoma's birthday, which means much more time has passed since 10.5, maybe as much as a month. Also the world ranking in 173 reads "Dec 18th" so uh... my bad. Good to know for future stat discussions, I guess.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2023 ---

Spoiler: Stolen from Kaoz

18th Japan vs Germany; America vs Tube; Encounter with Dorgias
19th Japan vs Greece
20th Japan vs Australia
21st Japan vs Switzerland
22nd Ryoma leaves America and rejoins Japan; Momoshiro vs Aramenoma, Ryoma/Kintarou vs Aramenoma
23rd England vs France; HSers' secret mission
24th Japan vs France, Switzerland vs USA
25th Japan vs Germany, USA vs Spain
26th Japan intra-selection matches
27th Japan vs Spain

So we are either in the 27th or 25th if the 3 group league matches were played in the same day. Which means Ryoma's bday was in his match against Ludovic or against Sengoku and Fuji.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 2, 2023 ---

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winner

Irie Kanata

​

Fourth round:

Going with a pick of my own. I considered Bismarck / Amadeus but I'm not too sure we have a lot of information on them, so I'll go with the opposite: A match-up between 2 players we've known for a good while.

Picture	Shiraishi Hardy Oct 2, 2023	Sanada Hardy Oct 2, 2023
Name	Shiraishi Kuranosuke	Sanada Genichirou
Title	The Bible	Emperor
Rank	No. 3 (MSers)	No. 4 (Msers)
Height	178cm	180 cm
Weight	64 kg	70 kg
Dominant Hand	Left	Right
Playstyle	All Rounder	All Rounder
Stat Total	20	23
Speed	4	4
Power	4	5
Stamina	4	4
Mental	4	5
Technique	4	5
Techniques / Styles	Bible Tennis Entaku Shot Star Bible Tennis	Lightning Shadow Black Aura Storm, Forest, Blaze, Summit Black Dragon: Double Strike

Their 10.5 profiles are here.

Sanada: the coaches do point out that his speed improves to absurd levels with Lightning and Wind (Storm). I can imagine that after all his matches his Mental has grown, and so did his Technique when he evolved his counters and Black Dragon. Sanada’s endurance also improved as pointed in the France matches (thanks @LetalHawk ).

Shiraishi might had improved his base stats evenly, and we know Star Bible greatly improves a stat of his choice at a time (though, he may be limited to whatever his Shitenhouji teammates can do).

Poll will be up later.

 

[LetalHawk]

Sanada’s endurance also improved as pointed in the France matches too.

Sanada’s mental and technique should be 6 now yes. Stamina 5. So:

Speed: ? (When using Rai and Fuu)
Stamina: 5
Power: 5 (nothing suggests it improved but possibly he is stronger now)
Mental and technique: 6
Total: 26 (more possibly when activating his techniques)

You can also add Triple Bend to Sanada’s technique as vs Toku he mastered it for a bit (not completely but I reckon he will).

Shiraishi has a total virtual stat of 35 when using Star Bible and he fought and won games against two players with 30 stat total (which is incredible).

But Sanada’s technique evolved, RanShinEnPou, I always saw FuuRinKaZan below Rai and In as I felt those two techniques were overshadowing the rest of his techniques. Now he has 6 similar strong moves plus the triple clutch (incomplete but he’s there) which makes him very unpredictable.

I hardly see Shiraishi returning the double clutch but he should develop a plan on the long run. Power and stamina wise Sanada’s superior and I doubt Shiraishi elevating his power to 7 can upset Sanada. He can definitely hit winners with his speed but maybe Sanada using En would blow Shiraishi away.

Sanada has a lot more moves and can use them depending on the situation so he’s more versatile here. Shiraishi can use one of his stats to his advantage but in the end I see Sanada winning.

 

[Hardy]

Sanada’s endurance also improved as pointed in the France matches too.

You can also add Triple Bend to Sanada’s technique as vs Toku he mastered it for a bit (not completely but I reckon he will).

True, thanks for pointing that out.

Not sure about the Triple Strike, though. He even abandons it and plays differently after failing several times.

I wanted to add something like "Storm clutch, Forest clutch, Blaze clutch, Summit clutch" to indicate he can combine them but idk if it's necessary.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Oh. This is easily Sanada win

Shiraishi been disappointing in NPOT

First, he pissed his pants against Zeus

Second, he was the weak link VS France. He was kinda outplayed by the Handsome Air.
Heck, Kimijama (who is arguably the weakest g10 member) carried him.

While Sanada is impressive.

He and Yuki won against The Captain of Australia in doubles.

And take note Sanada literally Beat France #2 player in Osval. (He is their #2 right?). France is rank #3 in world rankings.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 2, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 2, 2023 ---

True, thanks for pointing that out.

Not sure about the Triple Strike, though. He even abandons it and plays differently after failing several times.

I wanted to add something like "Storm clutch, Forest clutch, Blaze clutch, Summit clutch" to indicate he can combine them but idk if it's necessary.

Sanada will not abandon it

Atobe Future sight literally implied

Sanada will even have a 7 bend clutch instead of just 3.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 2, 2023 ---

-------
Current Sanada > Current Shiraishi

Triple Bend + Dark Aura + imrpove Furukazan is just too much


Even Future Sanada > Future Shiraishi

7 Bend Strike > Giant Entaku shot

 

[LetalHawk]

Yeah. Sanada’s got this match in the bag, his range of techniques makes him very dangerous and more even if he can combine it with the BA bends.

Sanada wins something like 6-3.

 

[Hardy]

Oh. This is easily Sanada win

Shiraishi been disappointing in NPOT

First, he pissed his pants against Zeus

Second, he was the weak link VS France. He was kinda outplayed by the Handsome Air.
Heck, Kimijama (who is arguably the weakest g10 member) carried him.

While Sanada is impressive.

He and Yuki won against The Captain of Australia in doubles.

And take note Sanada literally Beat France #2 player in Osval. (He is their #2 right?). France is rank #3 in world rankings.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 2, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 2, 2023 ---

Sanada will not abandon it

Atobe Future sight literally implied

Sanada will even have a 7 bend clutch instead of just 3.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 2, 2023 ---

-------
Current Sanada > Current Shiraishi

Triple Bend + Dark Aura + imrpove Furukazan is just too much


Even Future Sanada > Future Shiraishi

7 Bend Strike > Giant Entaku shot

But Shiraishi got the Star Bible vs France and got a massive boost, being able to score on an established pair that each had 30 in total stats. He was dominating TnK! Kin 1 on 1 (and the gap between them was only increasing), which is a much better feat than anything Sanada has done in NPoT. It was because he knew Kin's weaknesses and exploiting it was doubles, sure, but it's a great feat nevertheless. Meanwhile we don't even know if he can rally with TnK users, Atobe only managed to do so a day before the finals

The implied future (that may not be real) doesn't really tell us anything about how they can perform nowadays. We know Sanada abandoned that strategy against Tokugawa. So, at the very least, right now he isn't ready.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 2, 2023 ---

Something funny about Sanada: because he upgraded his initial move, I'm referring the new one as "Forest" and the old one would be "Woods". Pretty sure it tracks their translations, too.