Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 1

[Galactic Tomahawk]

And considering it was a a bottom ranker as recently as a few weeks ago, doing well enough to get up there under any condition is impressive.

 

[Samui]

Interesting comparison, Koen! I wouldn't put it past Ohba, it certainly wouldn't be the first time he seems to allude to something that is going on in real-life WSJ.

Spoiler: Bakuman 135

Only thing is, I hope that doesn't actually mean Shimabukuro wants to end Toriko in less than 20 weeks

Here is the picture in question, for those interested!

Where can I find the other pics with the other mangaka?

 

[BBB Banana]

@Samui
There's a thread for that in the otaku cafe

well here you have the link

http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/55788-Pictures-of-Japanese-Mangaka

 

[Asarii]

Toriko is first again? Wow! I wouldn't be surprised if it overtakes One Piece for #1 spot in the rankings. (If it hasn't already...)

Really happy to see Gintama, Sket Dance and Magico doing well. It's nice to see Mago out of the bottom even if it's just barely.

@Bleach: Well, damn.

Late to the convo: in terms of which chapters are ranked, 7/8 weeks sound about right if we compare what's happening in the story for some of the series in relation to the ranking later on.

 

[Shinsatsu]

Damn Toriko is doing real good. Makes me feel better somehow. I don't like it when 1 manga is ranked alot higher than the rest. That kills the competition.

 

[Suzuku]

Hey, I remember reading here a while ago a debate about whether Toriko would be a smash hit and whether AoEx would be a bigger hit out of the gate. Just wanted weigh in a bit after this week's manga ranking came out.

AoEx has been consistently selling between 20-40k copies a week for the past 3 weeks, and before then the volumes were doing like 15-20k a week. Here's this week's numbers:

Rank/Week's Sales/Total Sales/Title
11, *43,797 *,358,384 Ao no Exorcist vol.6
14, *39,893 *,376,520 Ao no Exorcist vol.5
17, *37,951 *,417,369 Ao no Exorcist vol.1
18, *37,833 *,375,780 Ao no Exorcist vol.4
19, *35,720 *,395,594 Ao no Exorcist vol.2

AoEx, since the announcement of the anime, went from a barely 80k series to a 150k series, and after the anime started airing the sales have skyrocketed into 350-400k territory and it's still going. In comparison, Toriko's previous volumes have not picked up in sales at all, it doesn't even show up in the top 50 manga ranking where the threshold for entry is 11-13k on most weeks. In addition, the ratings continue to dip, and for the slot it's in, getting 6-7% a week is not good enough, and last week it even dipped to 5.5%. So, what I'm worried is that not only is Toriko not the smash hit that Shueisha tried to make it into, the anime may be cancelled at 50 eps if the ratings don't pick up.

On the bright side though, AoEx is probably catching on better than Shueisha hoped for, and it's on its way to being a 600k+ series. It really is similar to FMA's rise from selling 150k a volume before the anime to 1.5 million a volume after the anime.

 

[BBB Banana]

I think it's because of the anime quality. AoEx anime has much more quality even though they have fillers, animation is superb as well as characters design and color palette. As you said the anime form AoEx even gives the FMA vibe (it's by the same studio after all) The fillers of AoEx are pretty enjoyable too

 

[Suzuku]

I think it's because of the anime quality. AoEx anime has much more quality even though they have fillers, animation is superb as well as characters design and color palette. As you said the anime form AoEx even gives the FMA vibe (it's by the same studio after all) The fillers of AoEx are pretty enjoyable too

Actually, AoEx is produced by A-1 Pictures while FMA was produced by Bones. That said, AoEx is aired on the same slot as FMA was (well, its spiritual successor anyway) and both are funded by MBS.

 

[BBB Banana]

People lied to me they told me it was by the same studio

And the animation really resembled FMA on top of that. But yeah as you said it really feels like it's sucessor

 

[susanoo13]

First of all the director, Tensai Okamura is the one that did Darker than black and Kuro Shitsuji and has much experiance with well funded well made productions and with quality fillers since, well, he's the one that wrote the main plot for the 2 DTB series, secondly AnE has a similar vibe and style to FMA since they are both female monthly manggakas, you could see a similar style somewhat in Kekkaishi in my opinion in some terms yet still I second what you say about the magnificent colors and excellent animation .

Moreover what we failed to signify is that AnE unlike Toriko actually SHOWS BLOOD while still airing 4 hours earlier the same day - I really can't understand how this whole thing with the bill works but I highly believe that if it wasn't for it Toriko would have been much closer to it's level of maturity just like One piece or Naruto part 1 is.

 

[Kaiten]

The big difference is that we have all been discussing Toriko in the contest of Weekly Jump, ANE is an SQ series. The comparison was never made for the same reason Toriko is rarely compared to Shingeki no Kyojin or any other recently popular shounen. It has generally been compared to Mago, which debuted in the same magazine, at around the same time, and has had similar sales. The fact is that AnE's anime has given it a huge boost, it's clearly becoming a sizable hit. We'll see what happens with Toriko, but the signs do not look good. Until I see old volumes move back into the top thirty, I'm not going to expect more than a small bump in sales. Same with Beelzebub, I expect maybe 20,000 extra volumes the first week. Mago did not get a huge sales boost from it's anime either.

 

[susanoo13]

Mago and Toriko both had very good success even before the anime (Mago at 190K+- and Toriko at the 210K+-), in the meantime Mago didn't get beyond the 280K AFAIK and Toriko will have it's first volume after the anime in the following month, I do presume Toriko will break the 350 by a little but it's more due to the manga being in a very high spot so it might get extra attention by Jump readers and extra sales.

Kaiten, in response to what you said about comparing a WSJ manga/anime to SQ series how big do you believe the difference in content in all terms is?
In some cases SQ is like the same as WSJ with less chapters and better art since it's monthly.

Not that I have read that much SQ mangas but from what I did read it did not have a different "vibe" than some WSJ series although I felt some if being in WSJ wouldn't survive for the fact of them being more unique if so to say and less generic which leads me to making this kind.


EDIT : BTW another question came to mind, since it was mentioned that Mago as a WSJ didn't get such a big boost when turned into an anime, does anyone have the sales records of other Jump series that made it big as a more or less before and after? for instance although without accurate numbers :

Reborn - Before anime 260K and top after anime 485K recorded in oricon.
such stats would be much obliged for Naruto, Bleach, DGM in it's prime and Black cat if possible although it had it's anime about a year after ending.

 

[perroloco]

We will see.. Though I doubt Toei would cancel the anime in 52 episodes, or would it?
I mean I know a couple of shows that were cancelled like Otokojuku and Dai No Daiboken, both Jump series which probably didn't quite sell as expected (Toei probably thought of both of these as the new Hokuto No Ken and Dragon Ball respectively) same with Yu-Gi-Oh! which was cancelled by Toei..
It seems like Toei wants a quick merchandise seller (Well, what company doesn't want to sell merchandise? LOL) and Toriko, while ranking good in JUMP and with good TV ratings hasn't have a boost in tankoubon sells (According to the info you have provided guys), so I wouldn't be surprised if it does get cancelled, unless sales do get a noticeable boost, which I am sure will, I mean it has an anime and the series has been marketed as the next big thing from JUMP since chapter 1!

 

[Kaiten]

Mago and Toriko both had very good success even before the anime (Mago at 190K+- and Toriko at the 210K+-), in the meantime Mago didn't get beyond the 280K AFAIK and Toriko will have it's first volume after the anime in the following month, I do presume Toriko will break the 350 by a little but it's more due to the manga being in a very high spot so it might get extra attention by Jump readers and extra sales.

350,000 copies per volume is a relatively low ceiling, more of a minor hit. That would not be enough to push it to the same level of popularity enjoyed by Bakuman. Volume 6 of AnE is already nearing 350k, Toriko volumes are unlikely to reach 350,000 while they are actively charting. Moving from 280 to 350,000 indicated that book stores want extra copies of the new book on hand, but are not expecting large number of new fans.

Kaiten, in response to what you said about comparing a WSJ manga/anime to SQ series how big do you believe the difference in content in all terms is?
In some cases SQ is like the same as WSJ with less chapters and better art since it's monthly.

SQ is aimed at an older audience. Weekly Jump is a young teen magazine, aimed at readers between 12-15. Shueisha does not expect a significant percentage of readers to be 16 or older. SQ is aimed at older teens. Shueisha does not expect any readers younger than sixteen. The style of writing reflects audience, with Jump focused on childrens comics, SQ having more mature themes, violence, and nudity.

Monthly magazines, including SQ, generally have far more pages than weeklies. They generally have the same, or similar number of series, with more pages given to each. It is not unheard of for monthlies to be 1000 pages per issue.

Not that I have read that much SQ mangas but from what I did read it did not have a different "vibe" than some WSJ series although I felt some if being in WSJ wouldn't survive for the fact of them being more unique if so to say and less generic which leads me to making this kind.

That is due to the age group. 14 and 15 year olds generally are not looking for different. SQ is intended for older readers, so they can take a few more risks.

 

[Josef]

Toriko? Never expected that series to become a threat to the all mighty One Piece in the ToC, I see the connection between them though, both have similarities to DB, and they both have the concept of the "fun world" which is generally a fun setting, people really seem to like that as do I, they both have that "cartoon-ish" feel. As long as I followed the ToC people were talking about a series replacing One Piece as a constant number 1, happy?

But this does not mean One Piece will fade away from glory, far from it, finally we are going to see some battle in the rankings, now ranking will be expected more eagerly. One Piece vs Toriko.

 

[perroloco]

Guys, I think is very, very, very, very, very..... VERY soon to make comparisons between ONE PIECE and TORIKO..
I mean, ONE PIECE since its beginning was constantly on 1st place on JUMP, of course there wasn't an established BIG3 at that moment, Dragon Ball and SLAM DUNK had ended prior to that and Ruroken was the only big hit, Kochikame and Jojo were there but they are more like taking random spots.. But still, ONE PIECE managed to get tons of 1st places through its first year, and still manages to do that. In fact I recently checked if a WSJ manga had taken 10 straight 1st places, guess what? ONE PIECE has, 14 straight weeks, maybe it has taken more 1st places but I just checked its first 3 years! (Go check the Bakuman thread all the info I gathered its there).

 

[Drmke]

One Piece was beat a lot by other series though in the early 00s like Hikaru no Go, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Prince of Tennis. Even Naruto sometimes. Granted it was a big hit, it didn't become a first place hog till the former two ended.

 

[kewl0210]

Couple things, 1 is that Ao no Exorcist has far fewer volumes to work with. It only has 6, and the anime is only gonna go for like 24 episodes or so most likely. But because of that it's easier for people to buy the whole series.
But Toriko got ranked 10th on the series in total sales over the last 6 months and Ao no Exorcist wasn't on the list.
Also, Toriko's anime ratings have been going up. The last two weeks were at 7.8, after having been around 6.5 for a while. It's certainly doing well. It's only about a point and a half below One Piece right now on average.
And the last volumes came out just right as the anime started to air. Like, less than a week since the first episode aired. You can probably expect the next volume to go up now that the show's actually started for a while. Not all series explode all of a sudden, some get popular gradually.
I mean, I said this stuff before, but people keep saying "it didn't suddenly get super popular so that means it's gonna get canceled and go downhill" and things like that when it's getting high ratings and ranking 1st place in the TOC. It just seems a bit silly to me.

Not to say Ao no Exorcist isn't doing well, because it is. It appeals more to a fantasy-oriented audience which is a pretty big audience. It has a Harry Potter-ish feel. A lot of the time, something like that can be enough to get a series for only sort of popular to really popular.

Also, I should mention that 200K+ is a very impressive figure for any series. There are markedly few series that get that high. Lots of series that have animes only sell like 150K or less, albeit they don't run in Shounen Jump. If a series gets to 350K then it's certainly a huge hit, definitely not minor, there are only like 15 or so series that get that high running at any one point. In the long run Toriko and Ao no Exorcist are both at about that level.

 

[ZayCon]

When people say that Ao no Exorcist feels like FMA's successor, or that it has a Harry Potter-ish feel, I don't really get it. In my opinion AnE isn't like FMA at all, and it definitively don't give the HP feel. The biggest different is that you can feel the greatness of the magic world in HP, while the stuff that's happening in AnE feels pretty normal. I can agree to the statement that AnE appeals more to the fantasy-oriented audience though.

I may sound a little negative about AnE now, but I'm not. Actually I really enjoy it

Is it just me that don't see any similarity's between AnE and FMA/HP?

Back to the topic:
Just because Toriko wasn't a instant hit doesn't mean that it will ever be. Look at Toriko 1/2 years from now, and I'll bet it's one of the leading series in WSJ (if it's not already).

 

[CannedJam]

When people say that Ao no Exorcist feels like FMA's successor, or that it has a Harry Potter-ish feel, I don't really get it. In my opinion AnE isn't like FMA at all, and it definitively don't give the HP feel. The biggest different is that you can feel the greatness of the magic world in HP, while the stuff that's happening in AnE feels pretty normal. I can agree to the statement that AnE appeals more to the fantasy-oriented audience though.

I may sound a little negative about AnE now, but I'm not. Actually I really enjoy it

Is it just me that don't see any similarity's between AnE and FMA/HP?

Back to the topic:
Just because Toriko wasn't a instant hit doesn't mean that it will ever be. Look at Toriko 1/2 years from now, and I'll bet it's one of the leading series in WSJ (if it's not already).

I agree with you! I can sit down and see something in FMA/HP and it'll feel extraordinary, but nothing really feels out of the ordinary in AnE.

Also, as it's probably been stated, Toriko has more volumes. AnE has like 7 volumes out, right? Maybe even 6. Toriko doubles that, so it's only natural that sales wouldn't increase exponentially right off the bat.

Slightly related: Would anybody by some chance have some recent sales figures for Beelzebub?