Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 1

[Haato]

hmm...I hope Enigma will be able to survive, it's ranking dangerously low as of late...and hooray for Medaka Box stay out of that nasty bottom!! : )

If I'm paying attention right...Stars gets ranked next week, right? or am I wrong? Either way it will be interesting to see how it does

 

[Kaiten]

The only series I have any investment in are mega-hits or to new to be ranked. Ikkyuu is dead, I stopped reading when it was evident that it would be perma-last. Hopefully St&rs ranks well, I've really been enjoying it. Otherwise something tells me One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, and Hunter x Hunter will be alright.

 

[Jaymie]

I still have hope for Enigma. Harisugawa is going to be anchoring in a few weeks, and Ikkyu should have a bit of life left in it. Enigma gets a lot better from Chapter 38 onwards, so I hope the Japanese readers are just downvoting it because they lost interest in the e-test.

 

[Kaiten]

I'm not convinced Harisugawa will tank. There is a very good chance it could, no doubt. But as the only RomCom currently in Jump it has entire fanbase to itself.

 

[7sun]

Yay, Sket is high, thats great! So much thx to the anime xD
Beelzebub is too low in my opinion, but the ToC is strange some time.

TOC is fine with me, except for Enigma. It's something different and so far, I like were the storie is going. Just cancel Magico and Ikkyu, both have become rather meh :/

I agree with you.

 

[TheOddOne]

I dont see anyone talking about the freaking awesome bleach chapter , no one feels the same ? IT WAS EPIC Tite kubo is back

 

[Kaiten]

This weeks chapter won't effect the TOC for about two months, so there is not much to say about it. The last two chapters should reverse Bleach's recent struggles. And if they don't I suppose nothing will.

 

[TheOddOne]

I know its isnt in the toc because of the cover , but the chapeter was epic , its what im saying

 

[Haato]

Well...be that as it may, then it would be discussed in the Bleach thread, or whatever, lol

It probably will shoot up in ranking at that time, if it doesn't, then that would just be hilarious XD

 

[Asarii]

I'm so happy that SKET is on a roll. It's doing really well lately (regardless of the push by the anime), and I'm glad it's getting the recognition it deserves. Nurarihyon is out of the bottom five, but it's sad that this is the highest rank I've seen from it in a while.

Bleach really needed that cover didn't it? KHR's ranking is bipolar as usual.

 

[ick]

Thanks, those two have been fixed now.

And last, Sket Dance chapter is the 197 : ) (ranked: 189)

 

[kiDo San]

It's kinda disappointing that ikkyu isn't doing well. It's really original compared to the recent all out battle or panty shot manga that's been running in jump. I guess change isn't well received with jump readers.
On another note, I personally have been reading Toriko since the beginning, and imo i don't see how it could be so extremely popular like it has been. I don't see the reason why it has to get every other cover spot or be included as the top of jump. Don't get me wrong it's not bad, but i don't understand how it can be THIS popular.
Regarding ST&RS and Mirror, I don't see Mirror lasting longer than maybe 20-28 chapters since the story seems too limited. ST&RS on one hand seems like it'll be in the lower half rankings but not the very bottom. It seems like people will either like it or find it boring so i don't see it fluctuating too much. It's too early to see where it'll go from here, i can see it turn into a battle manga when the aliens are introduced if it's ranking is too low otherwise i'll see it be a normal sci fi space manga resembling Star trek where they combine civilizations or something. Or i could be way off and it turns into an ecchi alien manga lol.
Now as for the recent GFC one shots...... The only one i found some what interesting was Moon, entry 3. All the others seemed too generic and was just trying to find a way to have some kind of battle scene.

 

[Kaiten]

While I enjoyed Ikkyuu, let us not confuse originality with novelty. Originality implies that a series changes the rules by which a genre plays. Dragonball was original, a tipping point in manga history. In 1984 the archetypical action manga was Hokuto no Ken, violent manga featuring a hero who appeared to be on steroids. After Dr. Slump ended, Toriyama took his comedic, Tezuka inspired art style and used it for the action genre. This proved to be a game changer, altering the way action manga is presented. Twenty-seven years later Hokuto no Ken's fleshomb style art is still unfashionable while some of the most popular manga in history are clearly influenced by Toriyama.

Ikkyuu is not original. It clearly followed long established art and story tropes of the action genre. A plucky underdog sets out on an epic quest, determined to make the world a better place. In order to complete his quest he must confront and defeat enemies of escalating power, train to become strong enough to defeat them, make new friends and allies. Ikkyuu is novel in the sense that the hero relies on his wits not strength. But the concept is the same. Plot wise, this is a negligible change as it would not require any changes to Jump tropes. As enemies get stronger, Ikkyuu's wits will have to grow stronger to match. Ikkyuu would still require power ups, only to his wits not his techniques. Applying different situations to the same tropes is not original, it is novel.

Originality is not Weekly Jump's strong suit. The series that demonstrate some originality in art, writing, or execution should be considered black swans. And any originality demonstrated is quickly institutionalized, reproduced in a number of new series. Jump's primary readers are below 15 years old, a rather conservative demographic, and not necessarily interested in originality or novelty. Even compared to other shounen magazines, Jump is incredibly conservative stylistically. Anyone expecting originality from a Jump series is reading the wrong magazine. Jump is the manga equivalent of blockbuster, summer action movies. The expectations should be fast paced, slick entertainment; Oscar worthy performances are not part of the deal.

 

[Shinjipl]

Well, as far as I know, Hanasaka Ikkyu is not an original story. Ikkyu is a well-known Japanese buddhist monk who is featured in Japanese literature. Also, there are many popular children stories in Japan involving Ikkyu and his extraordinary ability to solve riddles and his desire to help people. So the Japanese readers might have preferred something original over a story from their folklore. Anyway it doesn't really matter now since this manga will most likely be cancelled in two or three weeks.

 

[Kaiten]

There is nothing wrong with being an adaption, many great manga were adaptions - some were quite original, others not as much. Dragonball is a loose adaption of Journey to the West, Houshin Engi adapted Creation of the Gods, Akaboshi came from the Water Margin, One Piece is basically the Argonautika, and legions of manga have adapted Romance of the Three Kingdoms. It is very possible to adapt an older story and still be original. Dragonball and Houshin Engi were adaptions but by avoiding the genre cliches of their time were highly original manga. Neither were particularly faithful to their source, it is doubtful that Ikkyuu is any more faithful. The difference is Ikkyuu's reliance on genre tropes disqualifies it from being considered original. Not that being original is an end unto itself. An entertaining story is reward within itself, it does not have to rewrite genre rules.

 

[Asgaroth]

...

The Dark Knight is a Oscar worthy Summer Action Blockbuster... one of the few.

I thin Deathnote were pretty Originial for a Manga. The bad guy as the main protagonist, only witts and psychology and the death angels AND it was published in shounen jump. one lucky mistack the editorial made with this excpetion of the norm, so yeah, we were lucky. propably the reason enigma got a chance, even if it looks a lot shounen like art wise.

 

[Divinenega]

The Dark Knight is a Oscar worthy Summer Action Blockbuster... one of the few.

I thin Deathnote were pretty Originial for a Manga. The bad guy as the main protagonist, only witts and psychology and the death angels AND it was published in shounen jump. one lucky mistack the editorial made with this excpetion of the norm, so yeah, we were lucky. propably the reason enigma got a chance, even if it looks a lot shounen like art wise.

''

Actually, storyline aside, I think Enigma is a pretty decent for for JUMP(I agree with about Death Note though). While it's not a mainstream series it defiently follows the JUMP code of "Friendship, Effort, Victory". It's certainly been a bit more idealistic than most mangas of its genre, since they usually pit the cats against each other rather than having them unite. It still manages to work and stay interesting.

Now if only the JUMP readers can start voting for it again. Hopefully it can pull of a good second year since that's usually when must JUMP series really pick up steam.

 

[kiDo San]

Originality is not Weekly Jump's strong suit. The series that demonstrate some originality in art, writing, or execution should be considered black swans. And any originality demonstrated is quickly institutionalized, reproduced in a number of new series. Jump's primary readers are below 15 years old, a rather conservative demographic, and not necessarily interested in originality or novelty. Even compared to other shounen magazines, Jump is incredibly conservative stylistically. Anyone expecting originality from a Jump series is reading the wrong magazine. Jump is the manga equivalent of blockbuster, summer action movies. The expectations should be fast paced, slick entertainment; Oscar worthy performances are not part of the deal.

Oh i understand that completely. But since i guess since i grew up reading manga/comics and the story lines and battle scenes that occur in areas where it's there just to be there is nothing new to me. I guess since i've grown up i was hoping to see a new formula to the usual Jump series. That's why i was kind of upset to see that Ikkyu is on the verge of cancellation. Not because i thought it was completely and utterly original but because it was different from everything else. Not having a protagonist with a overly sized sword or some internal power that makes him super strong gets old after a while. But i can understand since the demographic for JUMP is 9-15 or so and not for us old timers.

P.S. I don't think Hokuto style is unfashionable, to me it's still amazing visually creating a more masculine hero and setting than the more young/slightly feminine style today. Well that's my own personal feelings and prob not too many will agree.

 

[Kaiten]

P.S. I don't think Hokuto style is unfashionable, to me it's still amazing visually creating a more masculine hero and setting than the more young/slightly feminine style today. Well that's my own personal feelings and prob not too many will agree.

Other than Toriko you rarely see mangaka draw buff, masculine hero's nowadays. Toriko is kind of a combination of Toriyama and Hara Tetsuo IMO. Otherwise I've only really seen it in a few Shounen Champion comics, like Hanma Baki. But Champion is known for being a bit atavistic. That's not really a judgment on the art style, it's just the reality that the ultra-masculine style of art is not very common anymore.

 

[Koen]

Other than Toriko you rarely see mangaka draw buff, masculine hero's nowadays. Toriko is kind of a combination of Toriyama and Hara Tetsuo IMO.

QFT

This is also the reason why I love Toriko a lot. Each time I read it, the nostalgia comes back when I used to watch Ken le survivant (hokuto no ken), Dragonball, Saint Seiya les chevaliers de zodiac, etc, etc on French TV - Club Dorothée. Imo, you should always build on what has been served meanwhile being innovative. I kinda regret that Ikkyuu is killed very easy because it builds on Naruto's art and vibe, yet with its own original input

---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 AM ----------

oh and edit: I wouldn't be surprised if Ikkiyuu's ratings would get higher. For some reason I believe that chapters are hinting towards it. It got a new arc and an interesting future villain is shown. It might be that given recent arcs, its ratings are better. I really lack the sengoku armors pace