Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 1

[alphabeta]

Someone, please explain me the following thing. I've heard quite a number of times, that the ToC ratings have to be calculated 8 chapters back. Meaning that the Rating in the latest issue of wsj for Series "A" (just created a fictional series) is the one for the chapter published in this issue -8. Basically if Chapter 100 comes out in this issue, than we find out the rating for chapter 92. But now i look at the ratings for issue 27, and it's obvious that those are the ratings for the chapters which are in this very issue, not the one from 8 weeks ago.

I dun' get this.

 

[mega walker]

Whats happening with the gold future cup, has anything been said yet?

 

[jorped]

Someone, please explain me the following thing. I've heard quite a number of times, that the ToC ratings have to be calculated 8 chapters back. Meaning that the Rating in the latest issue of wsj for Series "A" (just created a fictional series) is the one for the chapter published in this issue -8. Basically if Chapter 100 comes out in this issue, than we find out the rating for chapter 92. But now i look at the ratings for issue 27, and it's obvious that those are the ratings for the chapters which are in this very issue, not the one from 8 weeks ago.

I dun' get this.

I also don't quite understand this i think, but the Tocs that we get are from the issue -8 !
And the ranks that we get are based in votes for those chapters. But i think that for example if a manga got the cover on the current issue or something like that, then it won't be ranked on those Toc.
For example One Piece this week wasn't ranked because it was absent this week, i think.
I dunno if i am right cuz i didn't really ever understood really how this works, and i don't even think it is even the best way for this kinda of stuff

 

[Hangedman]

Chounouryokusha Saiki Kusuo no Sainan (WSJ 27 one shot) full raw online here

 

[Josl]

Someone, please explain me the following thing. I've heard quite a number of times, that the ToC ratings have to be calculated 8 chapters back. Meaning that the Rating in the latest issue of wsj for Series "A" (just created a fictional series) is the one for the chapter published in this issue -8. Basically if Chapter 100 comes out in this issue, than we find out the rating for chapter 92. But now i look at the ratings for issue 27, and it's obvious that those are the ratings for the chapters which are in this very issue, not the one from 8 weeks ago.

I dun' get this.

Let’s say you buy a copy of WSJ. Let’s say you buy Issue 30. In there you will find a so called questionary card. The question is which 3 series did you like best. If you choose to answer you can send them(WSJ staff) the card back. They count those cards and the result of the count is the so called “ranking”. Because it takes time to count the votes and it takes time to print the magazine, we see the results later.
Let’s say you buy Issue 38, 8 weeks later. In there is the so called Table of Contents(TOC). This is nothing else but a list of which mangas are in the magazine and on which page they are.
BUT
The order in which they are is depending on how many votes they got from 8 weeks ago(from Issue 30).
The Cover and color pages have fixed positions so they are not included in the so called “ranking”. New series and Oneshots are excluded as well for obvious reasons.

Any questions left?

 

[Sayaendo]

Was the Sket Dance cover posted already?

I just started recently as well(I'm at chapter 131) and i'm actually impressed with it.The art,while not perfect,totally fits the style of the manga and has its highlights.And keep in mind,Togashi does not work with assistants,he does everything by himself,which explains the rather low amount of pages.

That's actually a false rumor. Togashi does indeed have assistants.

 

[Jaymie]

Well, I doubt he has any permanent assistants. He probably hires some random assistants for a couple of weeks whenever he feels like doing his job.

 

[Drmke]

Hanasaka Ikkyu Chapters 1 & 2 by Clockwork Lies!!!

 

[Asgaroth]

Hanasaka Ikkyu Chapters 1 & 2 by Clockwork Lies!!!

thanks for this manga clockwork <3

Spoiler for Chapter 1
I would have said the only thing the sword can't cut is the sword itself. likely not witty enoug my answer =)

 

[Josl]

Hanasaka Ikkyu Chapters 1 & 2 by Clockwork Lies!!!

I just read both chapters and different to Sengoku Armors, where the changes from the One Shot made it worse in my opinion, the changes done to Ikkyuu made it better in my opinion.
Karma isn’t nearly as annoying and the premise for a long running shonen is also not bad. The main character is interesting and the two chapters were fairly interesting too in my opinion.
Usually when a new series starts I have a good feeling about which series is going to last and which is going to die but I really can’t predict what is going to happen with this series.

 

[Finestela]

Someone, please explain me the following thing. I've heard quite a number of times, that the ToC ratings have to be calculated 8 chapters back. Meaning that the Rating in the latest issue of wsj for Series "A" (just created a fictional series) is the one for the chapter published in this issue -8. Basically if Chapter 100 comes out in this issue, than we find out the rating for chapter 92. But now i look at the ratings for issue 27, and it's obvious that those are the ratings for the chapters which are in this very issue, not the one from 8 weeks ago.

I dun' get this.

I'm not sure what's confusing about this. It takes time to tabulate the reader feedback and form rankings, not to mention not every single reader sends out his postcard right on the day the magazine is released. Then you have the magazine actually being printed a week before the street date. Unless Shueisha has found a way to look into the future and gather the feedback for ratings for the current chapters several weeks before it is published, the rankings reflected by the ToC will always be weeks past, it's just the matter of how many weeks.

And the 8 issue is something mentioned by Shueisha insiders on 2ch few years ago.

 

[sir_arles]

I'm not sure what's confusing about this. It takes time to tabulate the reader feedback and form rankings, not to mention not every single reader sends out his postcard right on the day the magazine is released. Then you have the magazine actually being printed a week before the street date. Unless Shueisha has found a way to look into the future and gather the feedback for ratings for the current chapters several weeks before it is published, the rankings reflected by the ToC will always be weeks past, it's just the matter of how many weeks.

And the 8 issue is something mentioned by Shueisha insiders on 2ch few years ago.

Ok, but in Bakuman, for example, they get the "early results" and the "real deal" results of the votes just a few days after the chapters are released... why waiting 8 weeks if they have the data right away?

 

[Finestela]

Ok, but in Bakuman, for example, they get the "early results" and the "real deal" results of the votes just a few days after the chapters are released... why waiting 8 weeks if they have the data right away?

As much as Bakuman tries to draw everything as accurately as possible, it is not the whole picture of what's going on inside the Jump editors department. Not to mention it's one thing to have the ranking, but an entirely different matter in choosing the ToC ordering.

No matter how much they rush it, they simply can't dish out a ranking into the magazine that's 3 or less issues ago.

8 weeks is what they have decided to go with that'd make their whole operation run smoothly.

 

[kewl0210]

You also need to realize that in Bakuman they tell the authors how many votes they got out of the sample of 1000 they take, so they know exactly what place they're in and by what proportion. So in terms of those votes, there is no one "unranked", they get told the raw data. The TOC just reflects that but stuff gets altered with the color pages and all.

The delay between the issue and the results is probably some logical decision, like to make the series popularity more viewable in the long-term. If a series is suddenly ranked last the week after a weak chapter, it would cause a different effect on the voter's mentality than the series only being ranked low 8 weeks after a weak chapter. The former makes it look like it's suddenly bad all-around. The latency may be to make sure people are less mob-mentality oriented and not vote for something because it did badly once and they think suddenly everyone hates it.

 

[larethian]

wow, magico got the missing pages from one piece, nice. ^w^

 

[Estranho]

And the 8 issue is something mentioned by Shueisha insiders on 2ch few years ago.

As long as I follow the ToCs, this "8 week" stuff was never confirmed. All we know is that some guy in 2ch said that years ago. If he were a Shueisha insider, we never knew, and probably will never know.

 

[zeando]

But now i look at the ratings for issue 27, and it's obvious that those are the ratings for the chapters which are in this very issue, not the one from 8 weeks ago.

I dun' get this.

people who answered before seems to have missed this part
why it's so obvious?
because in the toc 27

Spoiler

Sket Dance (Lead CP)
Toriko
Gintama
Naruto
Beelze
Magico (CP)
Bakuman
Medaka
Ikkyuu
Bleach (CP)
1-Shot
Enigma
Inumaru
Reborn
Kuroko
Kochi Kame
Mago
HnS
Sengoku
Dois Sol
Grimm
http://weeklyjump.livejournal.com/

there is no one piece, 8-7 weeks ago one piece was absent? looks like it wasn't absent
so most likely this isn't the final toc but the "early result" (if ever the "final" ones are published somewhere)
till now i've seen only early ones then :/

 

[saladesu]

I'm not really sure what you mean. How does the absence of One Piece this week reflect that this is the "early result"? The difference between the early and final results is probably only a few days, so I don't really see a point in Shueisha using early results if they can use the final results, presumably without that messing with their publishing schedule (they have 7-8 weeks to tabulate all that data after all).

When a series is absent, we just can't tell what the chapter 7/8 weeks ago ranked. 7/8 weeks from now, OP will probably just get an arbitrary rank since it had no chapter 7/8 weeks before that (this week) to receive votes on questionnaire for.

 

[SoulEaterFreak]

I've been following this whole thing about ranking and such for a while now and may I say that it's not about the weeks, but about the chapters? So it doesn't matter if a manga is on break for a week and then continues because the place in the toc (except it has CP) will be from 8 (or 7) chapters before either way, so the weeks don't really matter.

At least that's what I've read a few times and what I believe is "right".

 

[saladesu]

The argument for counting by chapters seems to be flawed, too. Let's say there are 2 series, A and B.

Week 1 - A (chapter 20), B (chapter 40)
Week 2 - A (chapter 21), B is on break

In Week 10 (assuming 8 weeks rather than 7), when series A is being ranked for its chapter in week 2 (8 chapters ago), 8 chapters ago for B is in week 1. Shueisha receives the surveys weekly. If for week 1, series B was number one but in week 2, series A is number one, then in the TOC for week 10, what will they place as number one on the TOC (ignoring color pages etc)? This is just 2 series, but imagine 20 series, all having taken breaks at different times... I can imagine that would be extremely messy trying to determine a TOC placing based on each series' rank 8 chapters ago when they're all from different weeks (and hence each a different set of survey rankings).

At the same time, counting by weeks also encounters a slightly different flaw, wherein Shueisha would need to arbitrarily determine a rank for a series that was absent 8 weeks ago. It does seem overall an easier task though, as compared to doing it by chapters.

Honestly, I don't think we will ever really know which it is. Even the "Shueisha insider" who said it was 8 weeks could also have been lying about being a Shueisha insider. It was on 2ch... Can that really be believed 100%? :/