Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[soDeq05]

I am kinda attracted to the cover. Probably I will read chapter one of Magico when the RAW is out.

Somehow, when looking at the cover, I have a feeling that Magico will aim to younger children kinda like that failed cat manga did (I totally forgot the name). It somehow looks nice but childish

By the cat manga, did you mean 'Nyan Koi!'?

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

I am kinda attracted to the cover. Probably I will read chapter one of Magico when the RAW is out.



By the cat manga, did you mean 'Nyan Koi!'?

Neko Wappa.

(Should have translated this but isn't. ) (runs)

 

[Estranho]

Well, since the "ranking method" discussion was brought back, I have some questions.
I accept the fact that everything you guys says is true on this subject, but based on what Bakuman says, somethings simply don't match, and I get myself doubting some things.
Bakuman says, for example, that usually a new serie gets first place (at least a Top 5, if I remember correctly) in votes with its first chapter. Well, I never see that reflected in real ToCs (the 8th chapter ToC, when we assume to be the first chapter rank). And I follow the ToCs since 2008. It's really dificult to see a new series get a Top 5 spot in its first ranking.
The manga says too that they know the rank in less than a week after the Shonen Jump is released. So why take 8 weeks to show this ranking?

You know, sometimes I can see in 8 chapters ago why a series X drop suddenly in the ranks. In narrative terms, I mean. But maybe it's a coincidence, and we see what we want to see.
I saw people say "well, the ranking reflects 8 chapters ago because Shueisha let the new series 'untouchable' for 8 chapter to give them a chance, so in the 8th chapter ToC, we see first chapter ranking". Well, why you assume that? (don't take that agressively, it's a real doubt of my part) Maybe the 8th chapter position in ToC reflects the 7th chapter rank, I don't know. Why not?

Again, I'm assuming you guys know what you say and have sure about what is the truth, so I guess you have an explanation for this questions.
And, please, don't say "Bakuman is fiction, it's artistic license". They don't have any reason to made this things up.

I would be happy if you help me clarify my doubts.

(If I misspelled something, I'm sorry. English isn't my first language at all (neither the second, lol))

 

[StrangerAtaru]

Reminds me a bit of Okano's last Jump series before doing the Izuna spin-off at Oh! Super/Super Jump, Mikakunin Shonen Gedo. (well the style of the art)

Haven't said anything this week mostly due to the confusing nature of the TOC earlier and with all the crap that was going on in my life (such as an internet that just is acting really strange) But my only real complaint is...well, OP being lower. (even if I"m somewhat complaining about how rushed Oda has gotten once again)

 

[Jaymie]

Well, since the "ranking method" discussion was brought back, I have some questions.
I accept the fact that everything you guys says is true on this subject, but based on what Bakuman says, somethings simply don't match, and I get myself doubting some things.
Bakuman says, for example, that usually a new serie gets first place (at least a Top 5, if I remember correctly) in votes with its first chapter. Well, I never see that reflected in real ToCs (the 8th chapter ToC, when we assume to be the first chapter rank). And I follow the ToCs since 2008. It's really dificult to see a new series get a Top 5 spot in its first ranking.
The manga says too that they know the rank in less than a week after the Shonen Jump is released. So why take 8 weeks to show this ranking?

You know, sometimes I can see in 8 chapters ago why a series X drop suddenly in the ranks. In narrative terms, I mean. But maybe it's a coincidence, and we see what we want to see.
I saw people say "well, the ranking reflects 8 chapters ago because Shueisha let the new series 'untouchable' for 8 chapter to give them a chance, so in the 8th chapter ToC, we see first chapter ranking". Well, why you assume that? (don't take that agressively, it's a real doubt of my part) Maybe the 8th chapter position in ToC reflects the 7th chapter rank, I don't know. Why not?

Again, I'm assuming you guys know what you say and have sure about what is the truth, so I guess you have an explanation for this questions.
And, please, don't say "Bakuman is fiction, it's artistic license". They don't have any reason to made this things up.

I would be happy if you help me clarify my doubts.

(If I misspelled something, I'm sorry. English isn't my first language at all (neither the second, lol))

I assume that they wait 8 weeks for all of the votes to be received and tallied. They probably know the early results after a couple of days (for a recent example, look at Enigma - chapters 2 through 7 generally had high positions in the ToC), but it probably takes a lot longer than that to read and analyze all of the votes.

 

[ruggia]

Bakuman says, for example, that usually a new serie gets first place (at least a Top 5, if I remember correctly) in votes with its first chapter. Well, I never see that reflected in real ToCs (the 8th chapter ToC, when we assume to be the first chapter rank). And I follow the ToCs since 2008. It's really dificult to see a new series get a Top 5 spot in its first ranking.
The manga says too that they know the rank in less than a week after the Shonen Jump is released. So why take 8 weeks to show this ranking?

I personally think Bakuman's "new series can get 1st place at first chapter" as one of Bakuman's exaggerated "facts" that were made to make the story more dramatic.
in common sense, its highly unlikely for any new series to get as much attention as OP or any big hit-series at its first chapter. People will notice it, but unless its a instant-hit, its not going to get enough attention to make into Top 5 in its first try. (unless the new series that get color pages very early are ones that ranked high up)
its a good way to make the story more interesting, but I highly doubt it happens often in real life.

 

[Googlez_kun]

Well, since the "ranking method" discussion was brought back, I have some questions.
I accept the fact that everything you guys says is true on this subject, but based on what Bakuman says, somethings simply don't match, and I get myself doubting some things.
Bakuman says, for example, that usually a new serie gets first place (at least a Top 5, if I remember correctly) in votes with its first chapter. Well, I never see that reflected in real ToCs (the 8th chapter ToC, when we assume to be the first chapter rank). And I follow the ToCs since 2008. It's really dificult to see a new series get a Top 5 spot in its first ranking.
The manga says too that they know the rank in less than a week after the Shonen Jump is released. So why take 8 weeks to show this ranking?

You know, sometimes I can see in 8 chapters ago why a series X drop suddenly in the ranks. In narrative terms, I mean. But maybe it's a coincidence, and we see what we want to see.
I saw people say "well, the ranking reflects 8 chapters ago because Shueisha let the new series 'untouchable' for 8 chapter to give them a chance, so in the 8th chapter ToC, we see first chapter ranking". Well, why you assume that? (don't take that agressively, it's a real doubt of my part) Maybe the 8th chapter position in ToC reflects the 7th chapter rank, I don't know. Why not?

Again, I'm assuming you guys know what you say and have sure about what is the truth, so I guess you have an explanation for this questions.
And, please, don't say "Bakuman is fiction, it's artistic license". They don't have any reason to made this things up.

I would be happy if you help me clarify my doubts.

(If I misspelled something, I'm sorry. English isn't my first language at all (neither the second, lol))

I'm not entirely sure,but i think there are three kinds of results.The first one is the quick results with some of the votes,the second has nearly all the votes(they are only revealed to the manga-ka) and the final results have every single vote and get published seven chapters later in the WSJ(most of the manga-ka don't care about them,though,because they are not really different from the second results).
I think it was something like this...

 

[Drmke]

Yeah Bakuman does indeed exaggerate several areas of Jump to tell a more entertaining story. New series usually ranking high right away is one of them. It's a common story tactic in manga where they focus of real life issues and such.

 

[Estranho]

Yeah, ok. But if Bakuman is merely fiction, from where we get the "real" informations? When someone of Jump came and said "you know, this week ranking is in fact eight-chapters-behind ranking"?

 

[Drmke]

Yeah, ok. But if Bakuman is merely fiction, from where we get the "real" informations? When someone of Jump came and said "you know, this week ranking is in fact eight-chapters-behind ranking"?

I'm sure that's knowledge given to mangaka while they are being serialized. And even if not every mangaka gets to know that, Obata has been in Jump since 1989, he's bound to know quite a bit about how it runs.

 

[Estranho]

I guess you misunderstand me.
I wanna know how we, people from the internet, know about that stuff. Who tell us?

 

[kewl0210]

From what I had gathered while reading/translating Bakuman is that the mangaka get what rank they are based on the results of the questionnaires, and get them a few days (I forget how many... like 2 days for the early report and 5 for the real-deal) and have the actual data sent told to them by their editors. Though the READERS only know those results through the magazine and the ranking that shows up 8 weeks later. The rankings they talk about in Bakuman are from the mangaka's perspective. Obviously the magazine can't show the ranking results for a chapter based on replies given by people after the chapter comes out.

 

[Kaiten]

I guess you misunderstand me.
I wanna know how we, people from the internet, know about that stuff. Who tell us?

The 'Jump Survival Thread' on 2CH, where the TOC's are first posted. It's been common knowledge for a long time, before Bakuman or anything like that began serialization.

 

[Estranho]

The 'Jump Survival Thread' on 2CH, where the TOC's are first posted. It's been common knowledge for a long time, before Bakuman or anything like that began serialization.

And from where they get this information? That's my point, we can never see the information path until the officials sources.
All we here know is that someday some japanese guy said that on a forum, and we all accepted that. Based on what he said that? Does he has proves? Is he an Shueisha's employee? Seems we'll never know.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Well, I'm not really sure where Jump ranking system came from (I, also, leanred it from this website), but 8 chapter system is proved by looking at axed series. All of axed series begin to place at bottom 5 when they reached 8th chapter (sometime 7th), and I can't say all of them were coincidently occured.

Plus, Bakuman is exaggerated in Jump ranking system. Like first chapter of new series ranked in first place; top 5 is possible, but being first place is over exaggerated. Bakuman is good source to understand Jump system, but I don't think we have to take it every single words; Bakuman is fictional.

 

[ruggia]

And from where they get this information? That's my point, we can never see the information path until the officials sources.
All we here know is that someday some japanese guy said that on a forum, and we all accepted that. Based on what he said that? Does he has proves? Is he an Shueisha's employee? Seems we'll never know.

well, the 8th chapter system seemed like something that evolved after a long period of observation, not by some random guy suddenly shouting 8 chapters.
and it has been pretty reliable, and even if its not an exact number, 8 chapters is around the time WSJ starts reflecting "bad" series on their ToC, so its a pretty good estimate in the least.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

I just read chapter 1 of Magico; my personal opinion is I felt similar atmosphere as Metallica Metalluca.

 

[Galactic Tomahawk]

First chapter looks more interesting than I expected (though still extremely generic, I should add), but it doesn't feel like it's really offering enough to stand out either.

Might be different when I read it translated but I won't be too surprised if it fails.

 

[Oberon]

Cover HQ #13 :

 

[MIhata]

Can someone write a short summery for the first chapter of Magico ?