Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2012] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[k-dom]

Even if I prefer some other jump series over Toriko, it is still one of the best of the current lineup so the ranks are not that much undeserved.
The mangaka has quite a good idea where the story is going which is also a good sign. Only, you have to accept the completely unrealistic world than Toriko is.

 

[Asgaroth]

i actually dropped toriko around 25-40, because of the masculine and old art style. couldn't get used to it. i'm actually surprised how well it places in the toc, because it's really different from any other series in jump, but this could be one key of its success.

 

[Kaiten]

It's not that different than other series in Jump: hot blooded action, takes place in a fantasy world, features magical powers, a hard working protagonist striving to fulfill a goal with the help of his friends, the manga will end with Toriko realizing his goal and completing his full course menu (or w/e). Shimabukuro's art is quite individualistic, but all of Jump's more successful artists can claim the same. No Jump manga should ever be described as unique, it's an insult to all of the manga that truly are one of a kind. It would also suggest that someone reads way to much shounen.

---------- Post added at 11:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

"Unique" isn't even a good judge of quality. Being different is not an end unto itself. Writing is a craft, storytelling is a discipline. A manga can be judged on the story the mangaka has to tell and how well the mangaka tells it.

 

[k-dom]

I think he was more speaking about the art style than the plot judging by his first comment.
And I'm not sure to understand your last phrase, who said that unique manga were good ?

 

[Asgaroth]

I think he was more speaking about the art style than the plot judging by his first comment.

thats exactly what i referred to. no one with a right mind would say that toriko has a unique story...

 

[Kaiten]

Plenty of Jump manga in recent years have had distinct art styles: One Piece, Shaman King, Bleach, Naruto, Reborn, Psyren, Jaguar, Kochikame, Eyeshield, Mago, Sket Dance, Gintama, Bobobōbo Bōbobo, Death Note, Muhyo to Rojii, Neuro, Samurai Usagi, Bakuman, Beelzebub, HQ, to name a few. Why single out one series? Once again this is a case of novelty being mistaken for originality, elevating a manga for the most superficial of reasons. After four years of sustained success it is an insult to Toriko and Toriko's fans to attribute it's success to something as facile as art. Toriko fans enjoy the manga, enough that they vote for it every week. There is no need to rationalize things anymore than that, no grand explanation needed. Manga is entertainment, Toriko consistently entertains large numbers of people. I will never understand why Jump fans must rationalize the success of manga they do not read.

 

[Asgaroth]

After four years of sustained success it is an insult to Toriko and Toriko's fans to attribute it's success to something as facile as art.

again, read everything carefully.

... but this could be ONE key of its success.

and what about "something as facile as art"? it's like saying that actors aren't important for a movie.

 

[k-dom]

Kaiten it seems you rant for ranting here. You are completely extrapolating Asgaroth post. First he never said Toriko was unique, second he never said it was successful because of the art. He even said the opposite before adding it could have been a key to its success.
Is that completely wrong ? When a manga starts and there is no plot yet, doesn't the art play a big role in attracting your fanbase ? Why despising the art as something as facile ? A manga is a comic. That is Plot + Drawings, if one of the two lacks then you only have half of the enjoyment.
In the Haykyuu thread we were recently saying how the mangaka art was playing a big role in making his serie interesting. I have the same feeling when I read Shingeki and it's you who is insulting here when saying it is something facile.

 

[HalcyonDigest]

Plenty of Jump manga in recent years have had distinct art styles: One Piece, Shaman King, Bleach, Naruto, Reborn, Psyren, Jaguar, Kochikame, Eyeshield, Mago, Sket Dance, Gintama, Bobobōbo Bōbobo, Death Note, Muhyo to Rojii, Neuro, Samurai Usagi, Bakuman, Beelzebub, HQ, to name a few. Why single out one series? Once again this is a case of novelty being mistaken for originality, elevating a manga for the most superficial of reasons. After four years of sustained success it is an insult to Toriko and Toriko's fans to attribute it's success to something as facile as art. Toriko fans enjoy the manga, enough that they vote for it every week. There is no need to rationalize things anymore than that, no grand explanation needed. Manga is entertainment, Toriko consistently entertains large numbers of people. I will never understand why Jump fans must rationalize the success of manga they do not read.

But then wouldn't that completely defeat the purpose of discussing most facets of manga. We could easily write off our appreciation for a manga as "I like it because I enjoy it", we could also write off the whole rankings thing and simplify everything to "It's popular because people like it" or "It's unpopular because people don't like it".

The person came in with a question regarding Toriko and why is it was so popular. Simply saying "It's popular because Japanese fans enjoy it" is a pretty lazy response. We already know that, that's a given. But the question is supposed to entice a discussion. No one here is expecting to completely crack the code to Toriko's popularity, we won't come to a conclusion that there's a certain objective reason why Toriko is so popular. The point is to speculate and come up with ideas as to why Japanese fans enjoy it. In a way talk about what it is we like about Toriko. I don't know why there's any need to see that as a negative thing.

 

[xi0]

I find that a lot of our enjoyment is chalked up to personal feelings, hence fanboyism. That isn't a bad thing if kept in check. But I also think breaking down a series like a literary critique is also unnecessary at times too. It's like telling someone why they should like or dislike something despite their feelings. Sometimes something just doesn't resonate with you, but you can still respect the hell out of it for its merits.

And no, there isn't anything really original about Toriko, other than maybe the Gourmet aspect. But that can easily be an analogue for other things that drive a plot in a manga. It's popular in Japan because it's a good series. And yeah, the art is unique to what's currently in Jump I suppose...but that's like saying there's series in Jump that have quite similar art in the first place and I can't say that at all to be honest.

 

[Zeromcd]

The author of Haikyuu drew the wrap-around cover for the second volume of Pakki.

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------

Due to extremely high amounts of sales Kuroko no Basket 1-18, the fanbook and Nisekoi 1-2 will be getting reprinted again.

It has only been six days since Nisekoi 2 went on sale and it already it upto its third reprint >.>

 

[gananime]

Can you post how many copies have volume 1 (and volume 2) sold? I've been searching the previous Oricon rankings and Nisekoi hasn't featured in the top 30s at all! (even 31-50)
That's kinda surprising seeing how many reprints it's getting...

On a side note, some people were talking about early release of Jump...so can we expect the TOC today?

 

[Maxy Barnard]

Man, Nisekoi makes me feel good, it's really the success Naoshi's deserved since his early one shots.

As for all this hubbub about analysing the popularity of a series, that makes sense to me. Like if you don't read it you can still appreciate the elements that make it a success. For Toriko you can say yeah, the art and writing do a lot of the work, but then you can break it down to the art style being reminiscent of 80s action manga, loosened up to fit the 00s Jump aesthetic, or even the aspect of fan-created foods appearing in the book, connecting readers to the material personally in a similar manner to what kept Kinnikuman popular all those years (again, alongside other elements). Even now the episodic nature of its arcs, being shorter than most of jump's big hits, keeps it open to new readers and quick jabs of popularity, especially as these small stories can have large ramifications (I think Bakuman said something about that sort of story).

Sometimes we all get a bit caught up in the ease with which we argue about how to talk about manga and what's respectful and stuff. Isn't it nice to just... Talk about these things in a nice, balanced way?

 

[Zeromcd]

Can you post how many copies have volume 1 (and volume 2) sold? I've been searching the previous Oricon rankings and Nisekoi hasn't featured in the top 30s at all! (even 31-50)
That's kinda surprising seeing how many reprints it's getting...

On a side note, some people were talking about early release of Jump...so can we expect the TOC today?

13　--　*,*45,317　*,*45,317　Nisekoi　1

Volume 1 had massive problems due to underprinting so it never ranked again. (has been reprinted 5 or 6 times)

The numbers for volume 2 will be out Thursday, but using the weekly ranking data from Tsutaya, Oosakaya, Taiyosha and the real time rankings we can pretty much predict that Nisekoi volume 2 will sell somewhere between 65,000-100,000 in its first week.

Spoiler

TSUTAYA　週間　ランキング-コミック
集計期間：2012年7月2日(月)～2012年7月8日(日)

*1 初（**） バクマン。（２０）
*2 初（**） トリコ（２０）
*3 初（**） 黒子のバスケ（１８）
*4 初（**） 銀魂－ぎんたま－（４５）
*5 初（**） 新・テニスの王子様（８）
*6 初（**） 夏目友人帳（１４）
*7 初（**） ぬらりひょんの孫（２２）
*8 初（**） ＳＫＥＴ　ＤＡＮＣＥ（２５）
*9 初（**） めだかボックス（１６）
10 初（**） 黒子のバスケ　オフィシャルファンブック　CHARACTERS BIBLE
11 初（**） 会長はメイド様！（１５）
12 初（**） Nisekoi（２）
13 初（**） 多重人格探偵サイコ（１７）
14 初（**） 疾風伝説　特攻の拓　外伝～Ｅａｒｌｙ　Ｄａｙ’ｓ～（３）
15 初（**） 範馬刃牙（３５）
16 ↓（*2） 宇宙兄弟（１８）
17 ↓（*3） おおきく振りかぶって（１９）
18 ↓（*4） 好きです鈴木くん！！（１６）
19 初（**） 貧乏神が！（１３）
20 ↓（*9） 名探偵コナン（７６）


大阪屋7月9日付け
*1位　バクマン。　２０ 　大場　つぐみ 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\420　4088704665
*2位　黒子のバスケ　１８ 　藤巻　忠俊 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\420　4088704304
*3位　トリコ　２０ 　島袋　光年 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\420　4088704657
*4位　銀魂　第４５巻 　空知　英秋 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\420　4088704282
*5位　夏目友人帳　１４ 　緑川　ゆき 　白泉社 　花とゆめＣＯＭＩＣＳ 　\420　4592193644
*6位　新テニスの王子様　８ 　許斐　剛 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\460　408870472X
*7位　ぬらりひょんの孫　２２ 　椎橋　寛 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\420　4088704649
*8位　ＳＫＥＴ　ＤＡＮＣＥ　２５ 　篠原　健太 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\420　4088704630
*9位　黒子のバスケオフィシャルファンブックCHARACTERS　Ｂ　藤巻　忠俊 　集英社 　ｼﾞｬﾝﾌﾟｺﾐｯｸｽ 　\760　4088705742
10位　めだかボックス　１６ 　暁月　あきら 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\420　4088704673
11位　会長はメイド様！　１５ 　藤原　ヒロ 　白泉社 　花とゆめＣＯＭＩＣＳ 　\420　4592191854
12位　Nisekoi　２ 　古味　直志 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\420　4088704703
13位　多重人格探偵サイコ　１７ 　田島　昭宇 　角川グループパブリッシング 　角川ｺﾐｯｸｽ･ｴｰｽ 23-34 　\609　4041202914
14位　おおきく振りかぶって　Ｖｏｌ．１９ 　ひぐち　アサ 　講談社 　アフタヌーンＫＣ 　\560　4063878252
15位　好きです鈴木くん！！　１６ 　池山田　剛 　小学館 　少コミフラワーコミックス 　\420　409134528X
16位　宇宙兄弟　１８ 　小山　宙哉 　講談社 　モーニングＫＣ 　\590　4063871185
17位　ふくろうくんとカレ 　山本　小鉄子 　大洋図書 　Ｈ＆Ｃ　Ｃｏｍｉｃｓ　　ＣＲＡＦＴ　ＳＥ　\680　4813030017
18位　名探偵コナン　７６ 　青山　剛昌 　小学館 　少年サンデーコミックス 　\440　409123738X
19位　妖狐×僕ＳＳ　７ 　藤原　ここあ 　スクウェア・エニックス 　ガンガンコミックスＪＯＫＥＲ 　\440　4757536305
20位　３６０゜マテリアル　７ 　南　塔子 　集英社 　マーガレットコミックス 　\420　4088467906
21位　ラストゲーム　２ 　天乃　忍 　白泉社 　花とゆめＣＯＭＩＣＳ 　\420　459219344X
22位　ＢＬＡＣＫ　ＢＩＲＤ　１６ 　桜小路　かのこ 　小学館 　Ｂｅｔｓｕｃｏｍｉﾌﾗﾜｰｺﾐｯｸｽ 　\420　4091344992
23位　モバイルスイートハニー 　秋葉　東子 　新書館 　ディアプラスコミックス 　\630　4403663516
24位　ＦＡＩＲＹ　ＴＡＩＬ　３３ 　真島　ヒロ 　講談社 　少年マガジンコミックス 　\440　4063846865
25位　咲－Ｓａｋｉ　１０ 　小林　立 　スクウェア・エニックス 　ヤングガンガンコミックス 　\580　4757536356
26位　ふしぎ遊戯玄武開伝　１１ 　渡瀬　悠宇 　小学館 　フラワーコミックス 　\420　4091344763
27位　範馬刃牙　３５ 　板垣　恵介 　秋田書店 　少年チャンピオン・コミックス 　\440　4253211100
28位　貧乏神が！　１３ 　助野　嘉昭 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\460　4088704711
29位　疾風伝説特攻の拓外伝～Ｅａｒｌｙ　Ｄａｙ’ｓ　３ 　所　十三 　講談社 　ﾔﾝｸﾞﾏｶﾞｼﾞﾝｺﾐｯｸｽ 　\560　4063821978
30位　クロガネ　４ 　池沢　春人 　集英社 　ジャンプコミックス 　\420　408870469X

太洋社
調査期間：2012/07/02～2012/07/08　(2012/07/09 08:50 更新)

*1位　バクマン。　２０　夢と現実
*2位　トリコ　２０　一龍と三虎！！
*3位　黒子のバスケ　１８　やっててよかったよ
*4位　銀魂－ぎんたま－　４５　心中立て
*5位　夏目友人帳　１４
*6位　新テニスの王子様　８
*7位　ぬらりひょんの孫　２２　清浄の時
*8位　めだかボックス　１６　生きることは劇的だ
*9位　ＳＫＥＴ　ＤＡＮＣＥ　２５　ステルス・ボディガード
10位　Nisekoi　２　ザクシャ　イン　ラブ
11位　黒子のバスケ　オフィシャルブック　ＣＨＡＲＡＣＴＥＲＳ　ＢＩＢＬＥ
12位　会長はメイド様！　１５
13位　多重人格探偵サイコ　１７
14位　Ｋｉｓｓ×ｓｉｓ　１０
15位　疾風伝説　特攻の拓　外伝　～Early Day's～　３
16位　（成）奴隷兎とアンソニー
17位　おおきく振りかぶって　１９
18位　貧乏神が！　１３
19位　宇宙兄弟　１８
20位　範馬刃牙　３５
21位　妖狐×僕ＳＳ　７
22位　ラストゲーム　２
23位　好きです鈴木くん！！　１６
24位　クロガネ　４　はじまりの先へ
25位　ハイスクールＤ×Ｄ　３
26位　レッツ☆ラグーン　２
27位　黒鷺死体宅配便　１６
28位　咲－Ｓａｋｉ－　１０
29位　ハカイジュウ　７
30位　名探偵コナン　７６

 

[NonExisted]

Is it just me or the letter D from the "mysterious D" site has gotten blur?

 

[Zeromcd]

Source: Super Early Medaka Box Spoiler Provider

447 ：1015 ◆GwoDyEGSIY ：2012/07/09(月) 22:02:14.34 ID:eNGnaGFBO
四百十三ページ
ドベ２

Medaka Box is bottom 2 this week.

 

[Kaiten]

Takamagahara has been scanlated, if anyone is interested. Personally, I was less than impressed.

 

[Kubukurin]

Takamagahare gives me "vintage" vibes..this year the new series were a little bit different tha usual, the only "jumpsque" series so far is Bulge.

 

[perroloco]

Just read Takamagahare.. Seems to me it will be a Sakigake Otokojuku! meets Ring Ni Kakero meets Kenichi (minus the tits and ass)..

BTW am I the only one thinking the mangaka really, reallly, reallllllllyy didn't want any girl to appear? At least on the first chapter.. If he is using Otokojuku as example, and btw I am pretty sure at least his editor would have tell him to read some volumes, girls presence will be minimum.. But on this day and age I don't think a JUMP manga could thrive without at least an important female character.. Well, I don't read much REBORN but I think all the main characters are male?

I saw like.. 3 panels with girls and that's it.. And the girl (?) in the color page.. Seems like a girl but it might just be the affeminate looking guy of the gang, who knows?

Heck instead of the mysterious dude-in-glasses character the author should have drawn a mysterious gal-in-glasses, most of the times.. that's just how it is.. I.e. Rukia from Bleach, Miu from Kenichi, Botan from Yu yu hakusho.. The guiding characters most of the times are girls and in a manga which first chapter included not a single important girl it would have been a clever decision.

Anyway I really liked the last couple of pages, but that's coming from a old manga lover.. I don't know if it will rank good, but I do think it needs an important female character.. She doesn't even need to be fan-service, just a female character.

 

[Schabrak]

Well, I don't read much REBORN but I think all the main characters are male?

The guiding characters most of the times are girls and in a manga which first chapter included not a single important girl it would have been a clever decision.

Anyway I really liked the last couple of pages, but that's coming from a old manga lover.. I don't know if it will rank good, but I do think it needs an important female character.. She doesn't even need to be fan-service, just a female character.

Chrome isn't.^^ It way nice to see Kyoko and Haru again, I felt like Amano completely forgot about them.

Manga without a female support character do work, just look at the ToC leader Toriko and how often Rin or any other female support has come up in the last couple of arcs.