Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2012] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[k-dom]

Objectively I agree.

What Jammin said was a good point though. What does Naruto have to lose? The series was and still is occasionally great. If by some divine providence the series gets better I don't see too much downside to it. It's not like there's a wealth of new, good series that are getting edged out of the magazine because of Naruto's presence. There are a few series I don't care for where that's the case for me, but not it.

If the War arc hadn't been such a garbled mess then I would have disagree, but this way I think there's a chance it COULD...COULD redeem itself in some way.

It has a lot to lose. Now it is still popular and the end would be natural. There are many series which rankings sunk because of a loose end, it seems like Naruto managed to avoid it so far but this seems a bit like tempting the devil. Wouldn't Kishi talent be of better use on a new and fresh serie than milking a 10 years old one.
Initially, I thought I may restart Naruto when it finished just to not die idiot, but such news really diminish the motivation I could have

 

[Asgaroth]

Wouldn't Kishi talent be of better use on a new and fresh serie than milking a 10 years old one.

Only if he really could do another "hit", which most can't. most writer/mangakas are one hit wonder and never reach such heights again (of those who already did of course...). also, would he? he may never wants to return or keep a slowly, like a monthly series, who knows.

 

[Crude]

I just really hope Naruto will end up like Eyeshield 21 did...

 

[k-dom]

Only if he really could do another "hit", which most can't. most writer/mangakas are one hit wonder and never reach such heights again (of those who already did of course...). also, would he? he may never wants to return or keep a slowly, like a monthly series, who knows.

Fortunately you are wrong and there are many mangaka which had success several time. To me, that's even more a criteria for talent than making one very big hit. In the recent history, you have Hiromu Arakawa who did not stretched FMA more than necessary and is presently very successful with her new serie. If Kishi is that a good writer, I don't see why he should fear doing something new.

 

[Nii]

Moderator Notice:
Just a friendly reminder to not focus on the contents of Naruto too much. You are free to say your opinion about the "announced length" and it's possible influence on WSJ or the TOC but if you want to discuss about the series itself please do so in specific threads : )~ naruto-niichan

 

[Kaiten]

It has a lot to lose. Now it is still popular and the end would be natural. There are many series which rankings sunk because of a loose end, it seems like Naruto managed to avoid it so far but this seems a bit like tempting the devil. Wouldn't Kishi talent be of better use on a new and fresh serie than milking a 10 years old one.
Initially, I thought I may restart Naruto when it finished just to not die idiot, but such news really diminish the motivation I could have

The danger, as k-dom pointed out, is that Naruto overstays it's welcome and begins to decline in popularity. The central premise of post-time skip Naruto has been the power of hatred vs. the strength of compassion. This arc promises to resolve this conflict, with Tobi's defeat and the defeat of, or reconciliation with, Sasuke. In order for the manga to continue as long as Kishi says it will continue either the villains have to escape destruction, or the series has to continue after the plot has been resolved. Either is an equally dire direction, rarely resulting in a satisfying story.

 

[kewl0210]

Kaiten's on the mark. Basically, 70 more chapters means tons of other "not important" fights between side characters, or else lots of hugely drawn out fights. Even if there is a good reason for characters to be fighting and there's emotion in it, if it lasts so long that all tension is dissolved, it's not as good.
Like people have criticized it for in the past. Especially with a "bring everybody back to life" sort of thing just so there can be more fights and things can become more convoluted.

Regardless, to at least hear an approximation from the author I think is good. Most people didn't expect it to end next year anyhow. It just seems like it'll be near the end of next year, or in early 2014.

 

[Kaiten]

Kishi actually said that Naruto will last longer than 1.5 years. He had previously estimated that Naruto would end in 1.5 years, but now admits it will last longer than that. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...aruto-manga-to-continue-longer-than-1.5-years

 

[xi0]

It has a lot to lose. Now it is still popular and the end would be natural. There are many series which rankings sunk because of a loose end, it seems like Naruto managed to avoid it so far but this seems a bit like tempting the devil. Wouldn't Kishi talent be of better use on a new and fresh serie than milking a 10 years old one.
Initially, I thought I may restart Naruto when it finished just to not die idiot, but such news really diminish the motivation I could have

It depends on if Kishi takes a risk like that with the story or not. I don't really know if we as fans can take what he says in interspersed interviews as gospel. Is this new information him rethinking things and adding new elements to the story? Or is it him repositioning what he already wants to do and choosing to expand on things he already had planned.

I guess my point is this is wild speculation on both ends. I think it's the easy thing to say that having a series go longer than most expected is "milking" it. I know Shueisha wouldn't care about appearances and the norm is that it harms the product as a whole. But I have no idea and won't assume. The fans are the judge.

 

[nyamonyamo]

I don't think series like naruto or bleach really care about toc or story line. As long as your little brothers and nephews still buy sasuke's dolls and ichigo's backpack the manga will stay till the ends of time.

 

[Kaiten]

It depends on if Kishi takes a risk like that with the story or not. I don't really know if we as fans can take what he says in interspersed interviews as gospel. Is this new information him rethinking things and adding new elements to the story? Or is it him repositioning what he already wants to do and choosing to expand on things he already had planned.

I guess my point is this is wild speculation on both ends. I think it's the easy thing to say that having a series go longer than most expected is "milking" it. I know Shueisha wouldn't care about appearances and the norm is that it harms the product as a whole. But I have no idea and won't assume. The fans are the judge.

Naruto's goal is to bring peace to the ninja world, fulfilling the dream of Minato, Jiraiya, and Nagato. With the alliance formed to defeat Tobi, that dream has become an attainable reality. With Tobi's defeat, presumably by Naruto's hands, the "will of fire" will symbolically overcome the "power of hatred". With the nations of the world united in peace and the forces of hatred defeated, the story comes to a logical, pleasing conclusion. No amount of risk taking can hide the fact that the story is nearing it's climax. All Kishi can do is delay the inevitable or to continue the plot after the resolution of the story.

Sorry, this post become more plot intensive than I intended. Unfortunately I could not think of any other way too illustrate my point. Serial or not, Naruto is still a story. The author developed a central theme, a primary conflict, and has unambiguously established how that conflict will be resolved. Extending the story too long, or continuing after the plot is resolved, will only take away from the overall coherence of the manga. Some manga fans seem to desire instant gratification at the expense of coherence, a logical downside to the serialization format. Continuing Naruto may satisfy the craving for more chapters, but it would come at the inevitable expense of the series as a whole, as a collection of chapters.

 

[perroloco]

Only if he really could do another "hit", which most can't. most writer/mangakas are one hit wonder and never reach such heights again (of those who already did of course...). also, would he? he may never wants to return or keep a slowly, like a monthly series, who knows.

Actually its kinda quite the opposite.
Tons of JUMP authors most important works have been made after their first hit work. I.e.
Most of the time the sole name of the author is a good enough promotion to sell the new work.

Harenchi Gakuen and Mazinger by Go Nagai. (And he had lots of other good hits though not in JUMP)

Ring Ni Kakero and Saint Seiya by Masami Kurumada.
Hokuto No Ken and Bara no Keiji by Tetsuo Hara.
Wing Man and Video Girl and I's and Zetman by Masakazu Katsura.
Doberman Detective and Hokuto No Ken by Buronson.
Yu yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter by Yoshihiro Togashi.
Dr. Slump and Dragon Ball by Akira Toriyama.
Hikaru No Go, Death Note and Bakuman by Takeshi Obata & Tsugumi Ohba.
Leader Takeshi and TORIKO by Mitsutoshi Shimabukuro.
Black Cat and To Love Ru by Yabuki Kentaro.

Though the model today is kinda different.. As you can see none of those mangas (Except for Dragon Ball maybe) lasted as long as today's manga behemoths (BLEACH, NARUTO, ONE PIECE)

And of course there are mangakas that as you said fail in making another hit.

Ruroni Kenshin and Nobuhiro Watsuki.
Shaman King and Hiroyuki Takei.

Almost every spokon mangaka i.e. Kinnikuman, Captain Tsubasa, Prince of Tennis, since the manga is so popular and has a stable fan-base the author simply changes the setting, i.e. instead of playing in High-School league the characters play in the U-17 national team.

Most times these mangakas

 

[meeedoooz]

It depends on if Kishi takes a risk like that with the story or not. I don't really know if we as fans can take what he says in interspersed interviews as gospel. Is this new information him rethinking things and adding new elements to the story? Or is it him repositioning what he already wants to do and choosing to expand on things he already had planned.

I guess my point is this is wild speculation on both ends. I think it's the easy thing to say that having a series go longer than most expected is "milking" it. I know Shueisha wouldn't care about appearances and the norm is that it harms the product as a whole. But I have no idea and won't assume. The fans are the judge.

just like you said, saying it will last more than he expected doesn't mean that he will start a new arc like some said . from the start there has been a lot of mysteries and secrets in Naruto solving every thing to achieve a satisfying ending with no loose ends is ok . besides he manged to keep the series interesting , selling well and ranking high so as long as the fans are satisfied and the series is ranking that high i guess there is no need to say " it just won't die " as if the presence of it is physically harmful

 

[kewl0210]

Hikaru No Go, Death Note and Bakuman by Takeshi Obata & Tsugumi Ohba.

Tsugumi Ohba didn't write Hikaru no Go. That was Hotta Yumi.

 

[perroloco]

My bad I was just writting out of the top of my head.. I know it wasn´t Ohba but was too lazy to check the name of the mangaka lol.. The only mangaka I did check was Buronson because I wasn´t sure if Doberman Detectuve or Black Angels.

 

[Newkerzy]

Kishi actually said that Naruto will last longer than 1.5 years. He had previously estimated that Naruto would end in 1.5 years, but now admits it will last longer than that. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...aruto-manga-to-continue-longer-than-1.5-years

He only said he thinks it might last longer than that. So, it's not to say he will make the series go on for more than that. It's just a rough estimate Kishi planned. He could end it within that time frame or a little over it. Only time will tell. At this point, the chances are 50-50, but I'm leaning towards the former. 1.5 years is more than enough for him to end the series, unless there's a little bit more stuff he wants to squeeze in.

 

[Zatono]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some time skip after its all over in order to tie up every lose end the manga has given us.

 

[xi0]

Sorry, this post become more plot intensive than I intended. Unfortunately I could not think of any other way too illustrate my point. Serial or not, Naruto is still a story. The author developed a central theme, a primary conflict, and has unambiguously established how that conflict will be resolved. Extending the story too long, or continuing after the plot is resolved, will only take away from the overall coherence of the manga. Some manga fans seem to desire instant gratification at the expense of coherence, a logical downside to the serialization format. Continuing Naruto may satisfy the craving for more chapters, but it would come at the inevitable expense of the series as a whole, as a collection of chapters.

I agree though. I'm merely saying that it's impossible to know what this "extra time" may consist of. We're assuming something NEW will be introduced from details in the last chapter, when it could already involve established characters. Who knows. I'm playing devil's advocate admittedly.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some time skip after its all over in order to tie up every lose end the manga has given us.

That's logical. That's assuming it's a part of some sort of longer epilogue it could be interesting.

 

[TXC]

That's logical. That's assuming it's a part of some sort of longer epilogue it could be interesting.

I'm getting tired of Naruto. But I would like this, a bigger epilogue that would close most of the loose ends.

 

[Jammin]

Naruto's goal is to bring peace to the ninja world, fulfilling the dream of Minato, Jiraiya, and Nagato. With the alliance formed to defeat Tobi, that dream has become an attainable reality. With Tobi's defeat, presumably by Naruto's hands, the "will of fire" will symbolically overcome the "power of hatred". With the nations of the world united in peace and the forces of hatred defeated, the story comes to a logical, pleasing conclusion. No amount of risk taking can hide the fact that the story is nearing it's climax. All Kishi can do is delay the inevitable or to continue the plot after the resolution of the story.

Sorry, this post become more plot intensive than I intended. Unfortunately I could not think of any other way too illustrate my point. Serial or not, Naruto is still a story. The author developed a central theme, a primary conflict, and has unambiguously established how that conflict will be resolved. Extending the story too long, or continuing after the plot is resolved, will only take away from the overall coherence of the manga. Some manga fans seem to desire instant gratification at the expense of coherence, a logical downside to the serialization format. Continuing Naruto may satisfy the craving for more chapters, but it would come at the inevitable expense of the series as a whole, as a collection of chapters.

I realize this is going to sound odd but I think Kubo did the right thing, in principle, after his his Aizen war. He tried to move past it and find a better place to end things. I don't think the Fullbringers or the Super-Quincy's were a good idea(I think those were the results of overcompensating for past mistakes) but the basic concept behind it all was to just...move on.

Naruto has switched central themes more than once as it's serialization progressed. At first the story was a "quest story" about Naruto's growing up in a world of ninja, then it was "light versus dark" thing with him and Sasuke, then "defeating war"(), and then it was back to a "light versus dark" but this time with Senju and the Uchiha. The result of all this has been a gordian knot of plot threads.

The potential I see in further chapters beyond this current arc is to allow the plot threads to be tied off gradually instead of all at once. Because this arc has made it pretty apparent that, if Kishimoto tries to take care of all of it in one big sweeping conclusion, it's pretty obvious how that's going to turn out.

So I think Naruto has nothing to lose and everything to gain here.