Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015-2016] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[TyVip]

Is Oricon the only source for manga sales? I want to know the total sales numbers for manga that don't sell well enough to be in the top 50 like Hinomaru,Samon and Mononofu.

Not really what you're looking for but

21,539　Samon-kun wa Summoner Vol.1
28,429　Samon-kun wa Summoner Vol.3

19,924　Hinomaru-Zumou Vol.1
28,864　Hinomaru-Zumou Vol.2
27,002　Hinomaru-Zumou Vol.3
27,070　Hinomaru-Zumou Vol.7
26,161　Hinomaru-Zumou Vol.8
Safe to say volume 4,5,6 are the same

Mononofu isn't charted. Volume 1 of Samon and Mononofu were released on the same day Jan 4th, 2016. The cut off for that week was 20,500+. Last volume (3) was released May 3rd and that isn't on the Oricon list either.
I can't find anything for the dancing manga.

 

[UFOCat]

This will be the final thing I bring up on nudity in shonen manga.
I would say I'm a very conservative white knight when it comes to women in manga/media. I believe women should not be shown naked in any media. I feel women should be more respected than that. I don't feel women's parts should be objectified and used as a means to sell a product. I wouldn't consider myself a feminist, but I do believe women deserve a lot more respect. In all honesty I don't believe nudity should even be in comics/media in general. That goes for both genders. That's what I believe.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 3, 2016 ---

Can someone post a link to Wonderful Wonder World?

 

[RafaFedKilla]

Here you go brah. Could've been Jump's answer to Cowboy Bebop.

http://mangahead.com/Manga-Collections/Special-Collections/Wonderful-Wonder-World-Oneshot-Raw-Scan

 

[UFOCat]

doesn't mangahead, have like, a lot of viruses on it?

 

[RafaFedKilla]

Yea, but I use it on my iPad so it doesn't have an issue.

I want to buy this guy's manga so badly. Don't let me down, Jump.

 

[UFOCat]

Well, since I can't access it, I only have a laptop and I don't feel like getting a virus, so I'll just cheer Jump's savior on from the side lines. 頑張れ！ファイト！

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Spoiler

Apparently Fujita Youichi (Director of the Gintama/ Osomatsu-san anime) really wants to make an anime of Samon. This was on the wrap around of volume four.

 

[vampire killer]

No wonder. Samon is the best thing in jump right now.

 

[RubyR91]

Are Tsukuda and Kubo friends? Lately if we're not focusing on white haired bishies then we're focusing on a whole lot of nothing else except shipping.

 

[WyldViolet]

I wonder when the savior of jump (mangaka who did Gold and that other one shot that if someone could link me to it I would be very appreciative because I really want to read it) will make his debut.

I sure hope they save Kei Monri until the magazine becomes less crowded.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 3, 2016 ---

Detective Conan has murdering and violence too

Conan is not Weekly Shonen Jump
Sunday's content guidelines are different than Jump's (for example Sunday has nipples) so it's not right to compare.

 

[Ecchi Boy]

Spoiler

Apparently Fujita Youichi (Director of the Gintama/ Osomatsu-san anime) really wants to make an anime of Samon. This was on the wrap around of volume four.

Didn't Osomatsu did phenomenal in DVD and BD sales? This might a big push it needs to survive and become big.

 

[101nemesis]

Here you go brah. Could've been Jump's answer to Cowboy Bebop.

http://mangahead.com/Manga-Collections/Special-Collections/Wonderful-Wonder-World-Oneshot-Raw-Scan

That color page alone was so good. Sad nothing came out of this.

 

[Newkerzy]

Light that covers the area are more dumb then nipples itself.

One Piece has slavery, violence, murder. The concept is about becoming a pirate.
Deathnote is about a kid who kill people with notebook. Violence and Murder
Yuyu hakusho has devils eating human. The beginning of Yugioh is edgy as well.
Detective Conan has murdering and violence too.

edit: DC is not jump so different standard, my bad.

It's like saying parents are fine with kids playing GTA V or Call of Duty, but they flip out when kids play Dead or Alive.

Well, what would you say to parents who goes and make generalizations about manga/anime=porn/nudity? Just the other day I got asked by my mom about it and I honest to god, am embarassed with the state of the industry. Back in the "old days", anime/manga offered us great stories of action, adventure, psychology, philosophical themes and so much more, and that's what a lot of people back then associated anime/manga with.

But now the industry is heavily skewed towards pleasing the otaku crowd who gives them more waifus than they can count along with a bunch of crap LN harem adaptations. Gone were the days where you could immerse yourselves into the characters. To feel them live and breathe as if they were your own selves. Now it's all cookie cutter stuff where 80-90% of the characters are just copied from other shows.

Also, Jump should be considered a global brand right now. But even so, it's still so easy to label them as supporting the image that they appeal only to the otaku crowd as long as they keep ecchi mangas in their lineup.

 

[TyVip]

stuffs

You are exactly right, but i want to make a few points. Manga first since this is a subforum about manga:

1. Creativity is running out. You can't make a good pirate, ninja, swordman, hunter, sport without being compare to One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Hunter x Hunter, Slam Dunk. Depend on the genres, everything you put out will always be overshadow by the previous generation.
One Piece basically owns the Adventure Action genres right now, any adventure manga nowadays will always be overshadow by One Piece.
2. The Ecchi series in Jump are niche though. If you look at the sale figure I posted on page 128, the fans for the original TLR are small ( Darkness is twice as big however).
3. I don't know about Europe publisher, I know their fans are bigger than the US. But that is exactly what Viz is doing right now. Viz is owned by Shogakukan/Shueisha, and they usually do not have Ecchi Series. For Food War, I think Shueisha pushes to international market. On the other hand, you have publisher like Seven Seas, which is trying to compete with Kodansha/Viz, so their catalog is unique with stuffs like Monster Musume, 12Beast
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Anime, the problem is not the Otaku Crowd. It's the studios themselves. First off, they always rely on the Otaku Crowd to make profit or break even, that's why people talk so much crap about all the generic LN adaptions nowadays. There is a reason only 1 or 2 shoujo get made every seasons, because shoujo target young girl from middle school to high school. No girls have 5977 yen or 56 USD to spend on 8 discs. ( Atkatsuki no Yona has 8 volumes, 3 episodes each volume, each worth that much). Same thing with the normal shounen show that target shounen ( not long running).

People pirate and as long as the internet exist, you can't stop it. Japanese studio should work together to create like a stream service like crunchryoll/netflix/hulu.

I don't know much about the anime industry, but my bottom line is: The cycle of adapting what Otaku Crowd will always continue, unless the studios themselve fix it.

To answer you question: I legit don't know. They aren't wrong either. 10 years ago, the manga series I owned that I considered "ecchi" would be Hayate no Gotoku. Nowadays, I buy manga with my own money now so I don't get that question a whole lot.

 

[vampire killer]

Otaku culture is gone. Now fujoshi run this town. Look at all the big anime and manga the last 5 years. They all have a huge fujoshi following. Bha is the biggest manga in jump right now cos of that.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Well, what would you say to parents who goes and make generalizations about manga/anime=porn/nudity? Just the other day I got asked by my mom about it and I honest to god, am embarassed with the state of the industry. Back in the "old days", anime/manga offered us great stories of action, adventure, psychology, philosophical themes and so much more, and that's what a lot of people back then associated anime/manga with.

But now the industry is heavily skewed towards pleasing the otaku crowd who gives them more waifus than they can count along with a bunch of crap LN harem adaptations. Gone were the days where you could immerse yourselves into the characters. To feel them live and breathe as if they were your own selves. Now it's all cookie cutter stuff where 80-90% of the characters are just copied from other shows.

Also, Jump should be considered a global brand right now. But even so, it's still so easy to label them as supporting the image that they appeal only to the otaku crowd as long as they keep ecchi mangas in their lineup.

You are exactly right, but i want to make a few points. Manga first since this is a subforum about manga:

1. Creativity is running out. You can't make a good pirate, ninja, swordman, hunter, sport without being compare to One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Hunter x Hunter, Slam Dunk. Depend on the genres, everything you put out will always be overshadow by the previous generation.
One Piece basically owns the Adventure Action genres right now, any adventure manga nowadays will always be overshadow by One Piece.
2. The Ecchi series in Jump are niche though. If you look at the sale figure I posted on page 128, the fans for the original TLR are small ( Darkness is twice as big however).
3. I don't know about Europe publisher, I know their fans are bigger than the US. But that is exactly what Viz is doing right now. Viz is owned by Shogakukan/Shueisha, and they usually do not have Ecchi Series. For Food War, I think Shueisha pushes to international market. On the other hand, you have publisher like Seven Seas, which is trying to compete with Kodansha/Viz, so their catalog is unique with stuffs like Monster Musume, 12Beast
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Anime, the problem is not the Otaku Crowd. It's the studios themselves. First off, they always rely on the Otaku Crowd to make profit or break even, that's why people talk so much crap about all the generic LN adaptions nowadays. There is a reason only 1 or 2 shoujo get made every seasons, because shoujo target young girl from middle school to high school. No girls have 5977 yen or 56 USD to spend on 8 discs. ( Atkatsuki no Yona has 8 volumes, 3 episodes each volume, each worth that much). Same thing with the normal shounen show that target shounen ( not long running).

People pirate and as long as the internet exist, you can't stop it. Japanese studio should work together to create like a stream service like crunchryoll/netflix/hulu.

I don't know much about the anime industry, but my bottom line is: The cycle of adapting what Otaku Crowd will always continue, unless the studios themselve fix it.

To answer you question: I legit don't know. They aren't wrong either. 10 years ago, the manga series I owned that I considered "ecchi" would be Hayate no Gotoku. Nowadays, I buy manga with my own money now so I don't get that question a whole lot.

See I really dislike these arguments because they're based on the notion that "I don't like this thing, so they should stop doing it, and do more of the things I like them to do, whether they're financially profitable or not." While I agree to some extent that creativity is limited, the truth of the matter is that the people who buy stuff are just as much to blame if not moreso for this situation. I'm not talking about otaku really, cause hey, at least they go and spend money and support the industry. So the industry looking to them for support makes sense. Whether you look at it as pandering or knowing what the audience likes and giving it to them, the bottom line is this: People buy what they like, and in order to stay relevant, one has to follow the trends. Trying to appeal to a niche market who wants to revive the past where things were a bit more abundant, but isn't willing to pay for it is not financially responsible. This goes for entertainment in general.

Jump may be a global brand, but I don't see them pitching manga ideas overseas first and Japan later. We (overseas markets) are an after thought. It's a great bonus if a manga does well overseas and in Japan, but for the most part they're more interested in scoring hits in their own country. You can blame the industry all you want, but the bottom line is they're supplying a demand, and that demand is for what is out there now. So in short you need to point an accusatory finger at the fans, fans like you and me. The anime studios/manga publishers need to make money to survive, so what are they going to do? Take a risk on a psychological manga thatmight sell? Or an ecchi one that most likely will? People want the industries they love to take risks, but fifty percent of that has to come from the audience too. Let me put it this way, if an established artist finishes one series and starts another vs a newbie artist with no serialization experience whatsoever both begin a new manga which have new volumes out at the same time, which are you more likely to go for? More likely than not, the established author right? Maybe in some situations one might take a risk on the new author, but people are habitual creatures. People claim to strive for and desire new stories, but ultimately, people want what they know, what they understand, and most importantly what they have experienced before. It's easy to complain and say the industry sucks now, because they won't attempt to take risks, but if we aren't as consumers, can we really blame them? If the crowds are willing to spend the money on a certain genre of media they consume, can we blame the studios who are already having a tough time making ends meet for choosing the easiest way to make money? Tl;dr, this isn't about making me or you happy, it's about making money. It always has been, and always will be. If you go have a look at some of the "beloved" shows/movies/games/anime, you'll find that a lot of them made modest revenue at best when they were released, and were financial bombs at worst. Maybe years later they found their stride, but what kind of business sense does it make to hope that something will make money eventually ?

Honestly, I don't particularly blame anyone, since I find anime or manga I enjoy even now, and I'm in no way into ecchi or harem. Before one blames otaku or anime studios, maybe one should consider that turning a profit is more important than catering to their specific tastes. If one wants change then they have to start with themselves. Buy (not read online for free) a manga or book you've never heard of. Research an author or a genre you've never experienced before and buy it on a whim. Import from Japan if you have to. That will incite change much faster than getting upset that people buy things that they like that just happen to run counter to your tastes, or blaming the industry for choosing to pursue financial stability over taking risks that may end up with them going bankrupt.

 

[TyVip]

"I don't like this thing, so they should stop doing it, and do more of the things I like them to do , whether they're financially profitable or not." I read all of it don't worry

I just want to clarify this line. I enjoy every manga that got a serialization in Jump. Jump manga never fail to amaze me. I do import Manga from Japan to show my appreciation for the artists/authors (ecchi series so I guess i'm also a part of the problem lol). I may come off as I want to see old classic manga formula again, but i'm not. Sorry about it . In my post I just compare the new series with the old series, and how creativity is limited.

About the anime industry specially, my point still stand. The studio needs to change in order to escape from these endless cycles
No one is buying anime -> raise up the price -> look for the Hardcore fan -> break even-> make new anime -> repeat. No kids or teenagers are going to buy a 60$ or 6000 yen disc for 2-3 episodes. Not to mention they might have multiple series that they like. The studios should come together and open up a streaming service like Netflix/Hulu/Crunchryoll for Japan. But in order to get kids/teenagers to take interest in the service, they have to lower the amount of "Waifu/husbando" anime per season, and that is where studios do not want to take gamble at.
For the last point, I may be wrong. I don't even know what kids/teenagers are into these days

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

I just want to clarify this line. I enjoy every manga that got a serialization in Jump. Jump manga never fail to amaze me. I do import Manga from Japan to show my appreciation for the artists/authors (ecchi series so I guess i'm also a part of the problem lol). I may come off as I want to see old classic manga formula again, but i'm not. Sorry about it . In my post I just compare the new series with the old series, and how creativity is limited.

About the anime industry specially, my point still stand. The studio needs to change in order to escape from these endless cycles
No one is buying anime -> raise up the price -> look for the Hardcore fan -> break even-> make new anime -> repeat. No kids or teenagers are going to buy a 60$ or 6000 yen disc for 2-3 episodes. Not to mention they might have multiple series that they like. The studios should come together and open up a streaming service like Netflix/Hulu/Crunchryoll for Japan. But in order to get kids/teenagers to take interest in the service, they have to lower the amount of "Waifu/husbando" anime per season, and that is where studios do not want to take gamble at.
For the last point, I may be wrong. I don't even know what kids/teenagers are into these days

I get what you mean, but the series you're talking about aren't really meant for teenagers anyway....they air super late at night, and are more meant for older viewers. The whole point of these series are to sell blu rays and DVD's. On the other hand series that air in prime time (6pm or so weeknights) are more meant to push new manga than to sell anime. It just happens that we get crossover hits like Haikyuu, Gintama, and Shingeki that sell manga and disks. The "waifu/husband" anime aren't meant for teens to begin with, and that's why the prices are so high for them. Kids/teens are more likely to buy toys/games/manga for their favorite series which is what the anime for those shounen properties are supposed to push.

And for clarity's sake, that cycle you mentioned has been working for quite a long time. The thing you need to understand is they're not trying to appeal to people who would read shounen jump, at least not initially. They are trying to appeal to the late night audience. Also, a lot of anime are appearing on streaming services, but the audience is slow to take the plunge on those, which supports the point I made in my last post: the audience is the one who has to change how they perceive and what they perceive in order to get the studios to change. You can't expect them to do things differently when buying trends remain the same.

No.
The studios want to sell and they want to sell as much as possible.
Who's got the money? Kids/teenagers? No.
Otakus who buy the uncensored bluray. Otakus who buy goods. Otakus who dream of waifus.
Anime is business. Studios are there to make profit. For each risky adaptation there must be 20 moe animes.

Not the way I would have put it, but this is basically the point I'm making. Also, keep in mind that in the past there were a lot less options in where one would spend their money for entertainment. Nowadays with many more options on the table, a risk is a really unappealing aspect.

 

[Txapeldun]

But in order to get kids/teenagers to take interest in the service, they have to lower the amount of "Waifu/husbando" anime per season, and that is where studios do not want to take gamble at.
For the last point, I may be wrong. I don't even know what kids/teenagers are into these days

No.
The studios want to sell and they want to sell as much as possible.
Who's got the money? Kids/teenagers? No.
Otakus who buy the uncensored bluray. Otakus who buy goods. Otakus who dream of waifus.
Anime is business. Studios are there to make profit. For each risky adaptation there must be 20 moe animes.

 

[DestyNova4th]

Excuse me, just one point. In the past, especially in the '90's, manga/anime abused with nudity and violence. It frequently disguised as a deep and psychological/philosophical stories, but they were what they were, only fanservice. For example, Ghost in the Shell movie and the stealth camouflage. Was the nudity really necessary? Of course not, it was out of context, and the stockings, as a fetish, reveals itself still more.

Yes, manga/anime now is full of fanservice, but in a comedy context, and honestly. Without disguises, pretensions or mindfucks.