Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015-2016] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[WyldViolet]

Its kinda dumb to call things generic anymore. Pretty sure every battle shonen from here on out is gonna have same kind of played out formula. Execution is just what people should look at. Who cares if said MC got bullied as a kid and was granted powers, did it leave an impact on you in any kind of way?

That's exactly what I'm saying.
There's nothing wrong with being generic, but the execution of the tropes is what really matters.
With Black Clover everything just kind of happens, there's no reason to care about any of the characters, because they aren't characters. They're just screaming trope machines with the thinnest excuse of personality.

 

[Varus]

In my opinion Clover has been decent post dungeon arc it is still insanely generic but less and the writing is still shit but not as much and I would not call it bad its average to the core it has its moments but what truly infuriates me is it's wasted potential. You need to stop over exaggerating though writing isn't Tabara's strong point but his writing isn't as bad as you claim it to be and you know it. As for Clover it has been an interesting ride so far its fast paced and simple easy to read easy to enjoy. I can't see Tabata sitting at home thinking how he'll get the approval of some elitist American woman in her late 20s(?). Most people are simple just get a chill cast of characters some good art and a blood bath and your set for the next big hit. Its obvious that you do not like Black Clover and I'd advise you to stop reading it but knowing your kind you will probably pull an excuse out of your ass like "I was sent to this planet in order to critique this work" or something along the line.
There are easier ways to torture yourself but if you insist on reading this masterpiece then I would recommend reading it from the start again because from what you've said I could clearly tell you are reading it with the wrong impression in mind do not let hatred consume you.

 

[Avok]

Well what you meant doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Black Clover reads like a parody of bad battle manga, it literally is this gif but with better art.

Something like MHA is an example of how to do a generic battle shonen correctly, Black Clover is literally fan-fiction level on the writing front.
It's a shame too, Tabata could be crank out some really cool looking stuff if paired with a decent writer.

I found MHA first season to be just as bad as BC's first two arcs. Maybe the "generic done right" flew over my head, or maybe it improves later on, who knows.

And no matter how many times you post the same gif, it doesn't resemble Black Clover more than it resembles One Piece or MHA's first 13 episodes.

The only really bad thing BC has is the swallow dialogue and characters. Other than that, it's just a stantard Shonen Jump manga.
The structure of the arcs is pretty weird too, but I think this has more to do with the inner workings of the company as a whole than with the way the author will develop the manga in the long run, who knows.

 

[TyVip]

Let's stop here since the discussion is going no where.
Good for Yuragi . If it reaches half a million copies per volume before an anime then I'll eat socks .

I have a question for those that read Haikyuu! Is it just me or the art is "weird"? Perhap I got spoiled by Production I.G, but I don't find the art that appealing, especially the character facials' design. Everyone kinda looks the same but with different hairstyle. The action scenes are great however. If I compare it to Zumou, Kuroko, or Eyeshield21 then Haikyuu's art pale in comparison.

Regarding the new series, I got Seraph's vibe and I hate that series. However, I enjoy the first chapter of Neverland and wish the author's luck

 

[UFOCat]

Whether you like Black Clover or not is completely ones own opinion. I don't get this ideology of forcing ones opinion on others. And about past things I've said: Yes, I did say that I thought Yuragi was bad and that I thought it was going to fail. I was obviously wrong, but I still think Yuragi is bad. I recognize that that's my opinion. You don't have to agree and I don't expect you to.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 2, 2016 ---

What I said above is mostly for @Rica_Patin
I will stop posting about opinions now, well opinions related to the topic above.

I think Haikyuu art has decreased in quality over the several volumes it's been out. I liked the art in the first volume, but I then checked out volume 18 and the art got a lot simpler. I didn't like the artistic direction the magaka took.

 

[chrisbj]

Why do they keep giving Bleach game collaborations?..... This is like the 5th one this year.....

http://www.4gamer.net/games/252/G025266/20160802019/

 

[UFOCat]

I'm totally going to buy all of Samon now. I just read the translated chapters so far (even though the translators are total edge lords) and it's so great. The last gag manga I remember liking this much was either Beelzebub or Sket Dance.

 

[Akai]

Just curious, why does Jump use romanized "Climax" instead of just saying next week is the final chapter? Do they just want the people to speculate on whether it is really ending or not? Or is this common practice and it's pretty much confirmed? Pardon my ignorance, but I've never closely followed series ending announcements from Jump before.

 

[Ihore]

Black Clover has standard writing for a Battle Shounen , the plot is relatively simple and it feels like the author has the story planned out for now.
I am interested in the story and its a fun manga to read.

(something that irritated me with some manga(Toriko, Bleach) is that the story feels like its written in the fly).

By Swallow dialogue i am imagine you mean the corny and cheesy phrases... for kids they are probably cool...I think.

About generic most battle shounen will follow some sort of established formula, like someone pointed out already , so if you don't like manga that follows tropes them Battle shounen simply aren't for you.

Its undeniable that BC is a hit and its simplicity and theme of Friendship, Effort and Victory that is well liked by kids play some part.
I also only thought BnHa boosted in quality at Afo arc before that i didn't even think much of it.

 

[jagman1x3]

Just curious, why does Jump use romanized "Climax" instead of just saying next week is the final chapter? Do they just want the people to speculate on whether it is really ending or not? Or is this common practice and it's pretty much confirmed? Pardon my ignorance, but I've never closely followed series ending announcements from Jump before.

It's just one of those things magazines like to do with English words, like "center color." I remember one series (not Jump but they all do the same thing) had 最終話(final chapter) with クライマックス (climax) as the reading to make it really obvious it was ending.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I found MHA first season to be just as bad as BC's first two arcs. Maybe the "generic done right" flew over my head, or maybe it improves later on, who knows.

And no matter how many times you post the same gif, it doesn't resemble Black Clover more than it resembles One Piece or MHA's first 13 episodes.

The only really bad thing BC has is the swallow dialogue and characters. Other than that, it's just a stantard Shonen Jump manga.
The structure of the arcs is pretty weird too, but I think this has more to do with the inner workings of the company as a whole than with the way the author will develop the manga in the long run, who knows.

You're obviously exaggerating (or just plain wrong given how the first season ends with the protagonist not accomplishing anything) and apparently in the minority. BC got called out for its mediocrity from the first chapter because of the way it played out, didn't really see anyone call of MHA for the same crap as BC just for how it was executed differently. There's nothing wrong with manga trending similar territory because the most famous shounen manga piggyback off one another problem with BC is that its executed poorly and reads almost like a parody of those manga than something with honest sincerity from the mangaka and just something mandated from editorial department because kids like this and its a proven formula that sells. And its not just westerners Japan sees how generic and uninspired BC is as well as most 2ch comments says its reads like it was churred out of a manga factory.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 2, 2016 ---

Black Clover has standard writing for a Battle Shounen , the plot is relatively simple and it feels like the author has the story planned out for now.
I am interested in the story and its a fun manga to read.

(something that irritated me with some manga(Toriko, Bleach) is that the story feels like its written in the fly).

By Swallow dialogue i am imagine you mean the corny and cheesy phrases... for kids they are probably cool...I think.

About generic most battle shounen will follow some sort of established formula, like someone pointed out already , so if you don't like manga that follows tropes them Battle shounen simply aren't for you.

Its undeniable that BC is a hit and its simplicity and theme of Friendship, Effort and Victory that is well liked by kids play some part.
I also only thought BnHa boosted in quality at Afo arc before that i didn't even think much of it.

Or its just another Toriko and the Jump editorial staff is just shoving it down people's throats in hopes that it picks up.

 

[Ihore]

Obviously they will promote a series that they believe has potential for commercial success ... (they would be stupid if they did not do it)

I see all these exaggerated complaints yet the manga is still selling pretty well.

but If you love hating stuff then you go ahead.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Obviously they will promote a series that they believe has potential for commercial success ... (they would be stupid if they did not do it)

Promoting a series is different from a series being well-liked. If sales data is the only we BC fans can prove that the series is well received might as well say Toriko and Bleach are still well-received.

I see all these exaggerated complaints yet the manga is still selling pretty well.

Not really. Compared to Souma and MHA which sold out in its initial first print runs the same hasn't happened to BC so its not gaining any momentum like those two series did early on and is just trending by due to its growth potential and not much else. I'm not seeing BC getting any accolades either, so its just doing fine and not well enough to cause a huge stir over it becoming another Naruto or Bleach though I do see it gaining a hipster following given its negative reception.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 2, 2016 ---

but If you love hating stuff then you go ahead

I haven't seen anything that convinces why nobody shouldn't be critical of this manga just the same stock comments like "it gets better" or "its fun" and from everyone I know still trendging through it said it really hasn't changed much at all so yeah sharing mu own views on a manga is considered "hatin'" by your own low standards.

 

[xAsum0x]

I found MHA first season to be just as bad as BC's first two arcs. Maybe the "generic done right" flew over my head, or maybe it improves later on, who knows.

And no matter how many times you post the same gif, it doesn't resemble Black Clover more than it resembles One Piece or MHA's first 13 episodes.

The only really bad thing BC has is the swallow dialogue and characters. Other than that, it's just a stantard Shonen Jump manga.
The structure of the arcs is pretty weird too, but I think this has more to do with the inner workings of the company as a whole than with the way the author will develop the manga in the long run, who knows.

Just as bad? Lol oh my

 

[Xzone]

Jump have pushed author like every normal company.
Horikoshi,Smoky B.B guys, Shibata, Fujimaki, Goblin/Iron Knight, Furudate, Tamura, Ashihara,Akira akatsuki,Matsui(the last 3 we only have to be their manga, all very unJumpesque),Naoshi Komi(the most pushed in the last year) all are people who Sueshia see money , inclusive people like MX0 ,Mononofu or psyren guys have a better record than other Jump author.
Still doesn't make the series good because other series was pushed too

Just as bad? Lol oh my

I dissagre with him but tbh the first chapter the author nedd to refine his style and character and isn't in the middle of the first arc(with the villain and the first serious battle of AM) to become interesting.
Also the anime doesn't help in the begining, the first couple of chapter are very, very bad adapted and the moment who make you continue (the final of the first manga chapter for example) doesn't make you fell like the manga.

 

[101nemesis]

MHA's characters are incredibly well done even if most are generic. That's my take on it.
You feel the emotion from the characters. You feel the chemistry and the bond between Midoriya and All Might. The recent chapters against the antagonist were those you see in every manga out there but MHA's execution was incredibly well done.
To me, personally, characters are everything to a series. They break or make a series for me. Art is a close second priority. MHA aces in both.

BC's characters are cringe worthy and generic in a bad way. I'm all for generic stuff but I cringed every time I read the dialogues and basically whenever the MC was present. Art in BC is alright. He has so much talent but he keeps putting out generic looking characters.

Why do they keep giving Bleach game collaborations?..... This is like the 5th one this year.....

http://www.4gamer.net/games/252/G025266/20160802019/

Is there a reason they shouldn't be doing it? Also, Bleach's mobile game sold a lot.

 

[ShenGao]

Tabata could have helped BC by handling the recent arc better. I was hyped for the fight against BeastDespairDemonmagicMan, but he crashed it pretty hard.
At one point i felt like i was reading the chapter of last week, because it looked and finished in the exact same way, with BDDM screaming about despair before Asta hits him with his sword.
For example last pages of the last 4 chapters:

Spoiler: Chapters 69-72

And going by how this has been going on for the past 4 weeks i can see that this way too long fight is still not over.

 

[ChocoBar9]

MHA's characters are incredibly well done even if most are generic. That's my take on it.
You feel the emotion from the characters. You feel the chemistry and the bond between Midoriya and All Might. The recent chapters against the antagonist were those you see in every manga out there but MHA's execution was incredibly well done.
To me, personally, characters are everything to a series. They break or make a series for me. Art is a close second priority. MHA aces in both.

BC's characters are cringe worthy and generic in a bad way. I'm all for generic stuff but I cringed every time I read the dialogues and basically whenever the MC was present. Art in BC is alright. He has so much talent but he keeps putting out generic looking characters.

One of the flaws in the manga is that you don't really get much time with the cast which is a shame because their small interactions are really great and this can be solved if Horikoshi just slowed down a bit so the rest of the cast can get a spotlight, that was another problem with AssClass in which you had such a big cast of characters and you do nothing with them. So far in BC the ONLY interesting character is Yami the rest are just really cringey and boring and Asta is just outright terrible as bad as Natsu from Fairy Tail.

 

[Xzone]

MHA's characters are incredibly well done even if most are generic. That's my take on it.
You feel the emotion from the characters. You feel the chemistry and the bond between Midoriya and All Might. The recent chapters against the antagonist were those you see in every manga out there but MHA's execution was incredibly well done.
To me, personally, characters are everything to a series. They break or make a series for me. Art is a close second priority. MHA aces in both.
BC's characters are cringe worthy and generic in a bad way. I'm all for generic stuff but I cringed every time I read the dialogues and basically whenever the MC was present. Art in BC is alright. He has so much talent but he keeps putting out generic looking characters.

Let's not go to the apart poles.
I agree in general MHA's character are increible well done, The answer of that is because you see all doing stupid thing and talk each other, shit like the last chapter(98-100) with people talking about what they like and other minimal thing are the reason who make you more emphatic with all.
Still , I don't think all are well done, yes they have generic character that make you like, but still Mineta are still a very mediocre character, Tsuyu and the laser guy have moment that you feel all his fear , with mineta all you feel is the same thing you see in other manga and not in a good way.
In general has the same problem like Assclass with a entire class being a protagonist but still is not a problem because both author make that problem into a appeal to read the manga

One of the flaws in the manga is that you don't really get much time with the cast which is a shame because their small interactions are really great and this can be solved if Horikoshi just slowed down a bit so the rest of the cast can get a spotlight, that was another problem with AssClass in which you had such a big cast of characters and you do nothing with them. So far in BC the ONLY interesting character is Yami the rest are just really cringey and boring and Asta is just outright terrible as bad as Natsu from Fairy Tail.

I think like you but in other hand I think have too much time interacting each other would affect the pacing of the manga.Still 2 or 3 chapter after an arc like we got is the perfect way

 

[Avok]

You're obviously exaggerating (or just plain wrong given how the first season ends with the protagonist not accomplishing anything) and apparently in the minority. BC got called out for its mediocrity from the first chapter because of the way it played out, didn't really see anyone call of MHA for the same crap as BC just for how it was executed differently. There's nothing wrong with manga trending similar territory because the most famous shounen manga piggyback off one another problem with BC is that its executed poorly and reads almost like a parody of those manga than something with honest sincerity from the mangaka and just something mandated from editorial department because kids like this and its a proven formula that sells. And its not just westerners Japan sees how generic and uninspired BC is as well as most 2ch comments says its reads like it was churred out of a manga factory.

Just because 2ch hates it doesn't mean that there aren't people who like it. It's a manga aimed at young kids. I doubt 2ch userbase is full of 11-year olds.

And about everything else, people called BC out because of the 'I want to be the King' premise. And I agree that the first two arcs were fairly bad, but from then on I think it can stand on its own as just another shonen battle manga. It's not good by any means, just not as bad as people say.

Just as bad? Lol oh my

Yeah.
MHA did introduce its characters in a better way, but that's it.