Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[DoctorApollo]

Well then let me ask you, was it the fact that she's female that put you off? Or was it like, anything else in the manga? Medaka Box was no masterpiece, but for the female lead alone it was quite brilliant.

What's so brilliant about a character's gender? For most media I can understand promoting diversity, but Jump is a shonen magazine, so I can dig the lack of female protagonists. As a young boy, I think I would've been much less enthusiastic about Dragon Ball if Goku wasn't male. I think kids need the kind of character they can relate to. When it comes to adults or even teenage boys, female protagonists and action girls are pretty popular and successful (Ghost in the Shell, Claymore, Kill la Kill, Black Rock Shooter, Haruhi Suzumiya, etc), but understandably shonen manga should be mostly about boys, it's just how it is. DB/Naruto/OP would have never become the shonen superpowers they are if the protagonist was female, simply because young boys wouldn't give thsm a chance.

(This obviously goes both ways, it would also be terrible to make Sailor Moon or CC Sakura into boys. Young kids *need* a character they can relate to, it's just how it is)

Edit: it just dawned on me that you may have meant that it's brilliant because it succeeded despite having a female protagonist, which is true, that's certainly impressive.
My main point was that we shouldn't encourage or expect shonen creators to focus on females in their stories, because shonen is made for young boys. Shonen targeted at teenage boys has enough female presentation as it is, but mainstream shonen made for boys doesnt (and also shouldnt) have female leads, simply because young boys dont like it.

 

[xAsum0x]

What's so brilliant about a character's gender? For most media I can understand promoting diversity, but Jump is a shonen magazine, so I can dig the lack of female protagonists. As a young boy, I think I would've been much less enthusiastic about Dragon Ball if Goku wasn't male. I think kids need the kind of character they can relate to. When it comes to adults or even teenage boys, female protagonists and action girls are pretty popular and successful (Ghost in the Shell, Claymore, Kill la Kill, Black Rock Shooter, Haruhi Suzumiya, etc), but understandably shonen manga should be mostly about boys, it's just how it is. DB/Naruto/OP would have never become the shonen superpowers they are if the protagonist was female, simply because young boys wouldn't give thsm a chance.

(This obviously goes both ways, it would also be terrible to make Sailor Moon or CC Sakura into boys. Young kids *need* a character they can relate to, it's just how it is)

Edit: it just dawned on me that you may have meant that it's brilliant because it succeeded despite having a female protagonist, which is true, that's certainly impressive.
My main point was that we shouldn't encourage or expect shonen creators to focus on females in their stories, because shonen is made for young boys. Shonen targeted at teenage boys has enough female presentation as it is, but mainstream shonen made for boys doesnt (and also shouldnt) have female leads, simply because young boys dont like it.

Soul Eater was pretty mainstream and had a female lead

 

[xi0]

I don't think you're giving the readers enough credit if you think the gender of the main character matters to whether a series can be a hit or not. Especially considering that the magazine has a huge female readership. It being a rare occurrence doesn't speak to a female lead being viable or not.

 

[Leoat12]

Issue #21 ToC
Nisekoi (Cover, Lead CP)
Boku no Hero Academia
Ansatsu Kyoushitsu
Toriko
Shokugeki no Soma
Black Clover
Gintama
Haikyuu (Center Color)
World Trigger
Hinomaru Zumou
Haeniwa no Zig Zag (Oneshot, Center Color)
Saiki Kusuo no PSInan
Kagamigami (Center Color)
Kochikame
UBS
Gakkyuu Houtei
Oneshot (Bleach's replacement)
Kaizou Ningen Roggy
Takujou no Ageha
Isobe

Nisekoi as Cover and Lead CP, Boku no Hero Academia in 1st place, Shokuegki no Soma in 4th... Best TOC ever, it is great to see the best series going well.

 

[Nii]

I don't think you're giving the readers enough credit if you think the gender of the main character matters to whether a series can be a hit or not. Especially considering that the magazine has a huge female readership. It being a rare occurrence doesn't speak to a female lead being viable or not.

Nah, I actually think he isn't off. We're all at least teens or above here, we can't really judge it from the perspective of an 11 or 12 years old boy/girl. It's a fact that kids want and need someone to relate to/look up to, and that's obviously working way better with the same gender. So a female lead does have it's fair share of risks to at least get ignored/cared less for by the majority of kids reading the magazine. Obviously the readership is way more diverse, like we just saw in the new Media Guide, but he's definitely correct when he says that kids highly prefer the MC being the same gender as their own. Doesn't mean a manga with a female lead can't possibly have success in Jump, but it potentially puts off a part of the readership and that's why most are reluctant to actually do that.

 

[xi0]

Nah, I actually think he isn't off. We're all at least teens or above here, we can't really judge it from the perspective of an 11 or 12 years old boy/girl. It's a fact that kids want and need someone to relate to/look up to, and that's obviously working way better with the same gender. So a female lead does have it's fair share of risks to at least get ignored/cared less for by the majority of kids reading the magazine. Obviously the readership is way more diverse, like we just saw in the new Media Guide, but he's definitely correct when he says that kids highly prefer the MC being the same gender as their own. Doesn't mean a manga with a female lead can't possibly have success in Jump, but it potentially puts off a part of the readership and that's why most are reluctant to actually do that.

I don't disagree with what your saying, but suggesting that the MC HAS to be male, that a formula exists, and if you don't abide by it you have no shot, etc. I find that line of thinking ridiculous. Obviously most Jump series have similarities, but I don't think the gender of the character matters as much as other things.

 

[Leoat12]

I don't think you're giving the readers enough credit if you think the gender of the main character matters to whether a series can be a hit or not. Especially considering that the magazine has a huge female readership. It being a rare occurrence doesn't speak to a female lead being viable or not.

It is a matter of idenfication, male main characters are easy to indentify with. It normally doesn't happen because of this. As for the "huge female readership" I say to you: calm down; huge is too strong. According to Shueisha Media Guide 2014 (2015 doesn't have this information, unfortunately) the female public is 20.2% and it is hard to see a series surviving with just 20% of the public supporting it, so it is not that huge. Probably Jump editors would like to see this rate decreasing because Shonen Jump is a magazine for boys and it should attract boys, when it starts to attracts girls, it is a problem.
It is a commercial point of view, I don't have anything against female readers, before someone asks.

 

[xi0]

It is a matter of idenfication, male main characters are easy to indentify with. It normally doesn't happen because of this. As for the "huge female readership" I say to you: calm down; huge is too strong. According to Shueisha Media Guide 2014 (2015 doesn't have this information, unfortunately) the female public is 20.2% and it is hard to see a series surviving with just 20% of the public supporting it, so it is not that huge. Probably Jump editors would like to see this rate decreasing because Shonen Jump is a magazine for boys and it should attract boys, when it starts to attracts girls, it is a problem.
It is a commercial point of view, I don't have anything against female readers, before someone ask.

It's huge when it's a magazine aimed at boys. So regardless of who the magazine is "aimed" at, plenty people outside of that demographic read it.

And again, all I said is that it being a rarity doesn't mean it's a damning criteria for a prospective series. Not sure how you can disagree with that.

 

[DoctorApollo]

I don't think you're giving the readers enough credit if you think the gender of the main character matters to whether a series can be a hit or not. Especially considering that the magazine has a huge female readership. It being a rare occurrence doesn't speak to a female lead being viable or not.

A female lead is extremely viable because older boys and also girls read the magazine. But they are not the target audience. JUMP should not try to appeal to girls because it is a shonen magazine. Girls can like One Piece. Old men can like One Piece. However, One Piece should never have those girls/men on its radar when it's being created. One Piece is made with kids in mind. I'm twenty and I like it, many older boys and girls like it, but it is not for us, it's for the kids. That's all I'm trying to say: we should respect the target audience, we shouldn't expect shonen manga to pander to girls or older guys, or even twenty-year-olds. Every demographic has manga made for that demographic, so if you're reading manga made for young boys, you should not request of it to have decent female representation.

My point is that (mainstream) shonen manga is for young boys. Some of it is for older boys, yes, but stuff like DN is on the verge of being seinen. "True" shonen manga is generally made with 13-years-old as the oldest target audience.

Edit: i read your other posts. Let me clarify: you definitely have a very big shot with a female protagonist, because Jump has a lot of otaku type readers that get horny for 2d girls. My point isnt about whats viable, my point is about what we should expect and encourage shonen manga to be. We shouldnt expect female protagonists from manga written for young boys, that's all. I started this rant as a response to the claim that having a female lead in shonen is "brilliant", and my point is that IMO female leads have no place in mainstream shonen. They have place and flood pretty much every other demographic and even shonen made for older boys, but mainstream shonen made for young boys doesnt and shouldnt have female protagonists.

 

[xi0]

A female lead is extremely viable because older boys and also girls read the magazine. But they are not the target audience. JUMP should not try to appeal to girls because it is a shonen magazine. Girls can like One Piece. Old men can like One Piece. However, One Piece should never have those girls/men on its radar when it's being created. One Piece is made with kids in mind. I'm twenty and I like it, many older boys and girls like it, but it is not for us, it's for the kids. That's all I'm trying to say: we should respect the target audience, we shouldn't expect shonen manga to pander to girls or older guys, or even twenty-year-olds. Every demographic has manga made for that demographic, so if you're reading manga made for young boys, you should not request of it to have decent female representation.

My point is that (mainstream) shonen manga is for young boys. Some of it is for older boys, yes, but stuff like DN is on the verge of being seinen. "True" shonen manga is generally made with 13-years-old as the oldest target audience.

Well, I don't think I ever disputed the target audience for Jump did I? But outliers obviously exist.

 

[Nii]

I don't disagree with what your saying, but suggesting that the MC HAS to be male, that a formula exists, and if you don't abide by it you have no shot, etc. I find that line of thinking ridiculous. Obviously most Jump series have similarities, but I don't think the gender of the character matters as much as other things.

Yeah ofc, it could still be a success. Medaka Box proved that anyway, even if it wasn't HUGE. Just saying it's definitely harder in a magazine like Jump, but as long as the story and the characters work every series can have it's success, no matter if male of female lead. What I was actually trying to say is that I can understand most mangaka in Jump going with a male MC, it's just less of a risk (and more likely to be accepted by the Jump Editors too). In that sense I would say props to the mangaka who actually have the courage to go with a female MC. Wouldn't mind more female lead's at all, but business usually goes with the more likely success.

 

[DoctorApollo]

Well, I don't think I ever disputed the target audience for Jump did I? But outliers obviously exist.

I think we are speaking about different things, read the edit to my post. I was not talking about what's viable, I am just talking about the most mainstream manga (i.e not just JUMP, but rather the most mainstream even IN jump) is made for young boys. Female protagonists are viable only if you're aiming for the older boys and girls, which are NOT the true demographic of JUMP.

basically i agree with you that it's viable, but I'm not talkng about viable for some success, I'm talking about the MOST successful manga in a magazine made for boys: they're the ones that target and respect the wishes of young boys.

 

[Pietro]

Any preview of the new series?

 

[Unok]

Any preview of the new series?

 

[Mammo]

I think you can find the one shots for all three series online

 

[Leoat12]

First one is by the author of Koganeiro, right? Gotta read it.
The second is the cause of all this polemic, right? It has boobs, so it is fine. If it were a MC with flat chest, it would be worrisome.
The third didn't appeal to me... I should go with the first two.

 

[SharkBait]

No good character design :/ Hopefully they dont cannibalize World Trigger or BLack Clover.

 

[Unok]

Had hope for Lady Justice since I wasn't remembering seeing the oneshot, but it isn't appealing much to me.

Lady Justice oneshot - http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3075430449
Devilyman oneshot - http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3211707148

I won't even bother looking for the first, as it looks waaay too out of my taste. Black Clover, Kagamigami, Roggy & UBS looked so much more interesting and were quite good.

 

[Pietro]

I find all 3 series uglies.Maybe the second could be interesting,but I dont like female heroines
Dance is a them that I don't like,and I hope japaneses don't like it,too.
Dvilyman has a bad design,and the demon seems a coackroach

 

[Leoat12]

I won't even bother looking for the first, as it looks waaay too out of my taste. Black Clover, Kagamigami, Roggy & UBS looked so much more interesting and were quite good.

Have you read Koganeiro? It diddn't stand out at first either, but it is very good.

---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 AM ----------

Naruto Gaiden Preview

[tweet]https://twitter.com/kazu4281/status/588688926891593728[/tweet]