Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Drmke]

Well then let me ask you, was it the fact that she's female that put you off? Or was it like, anything else in the manga?

I don't care about if manga has a female lead or not, my only concern is it in Jump & those often don't do so well

Shonen targeted at teenage boys has enough female presentation as it is, but mainstream shonen made for boys doesnt (and also shouldnt) have female leads, simply because young boys dont like it.

Shonen Jump is a magazine for boys and it should attract boys, when it starts to attracts girls, it is a problem.

mainstream shonen made for young boys doesnt and shouldnt have female protagonists.

the mangaka who actually have the courage to go with a female MC. Wouldn't mind more female lead's at all, but business usually goes with the more likely success.

It has boobs, so it is fine. If it were a MC with flat chest, it would be worrisome.

There's a theme with these comments...maybe Jump should just start printing NO GIRLS ALLOWED real big on their cover every week.

 

[Leoat12]

You guys have to understand that Shonen Jump editors DON'T THINK OF GIRLS when they are going to serialize something, it is not the objective of the magazine, period. If some girls enjoyed a series by accident, it can't be helped, but it is not the objective. Therefore, girls have to be showed in shounen magazine the way boys enjoy them.
It shouldn't be discussion material because it is clear.

People tends to think that Shonen Jump has the obligation to please everybody because it is the most famous. It is not like that. They have to please boys, the rest is rest.

 

[xi0]

You guys have to understand that Shonen Jump editor DON'T THINK OF GIRLS when they are going to serialize something, it is not the objective of the magazine, period. If some girls enjoyed a series by accident, it can't be helped, but it is not the objective. Therefore, girls have to be showed in shounen magazine the way boys enjoy them.
It shouldn't be discussion material because it is clear.

Sorry, but you have no idea what is said in their editor's room.

The objective is to make good stories that appeal to their audience. The author can choose to display his characters the way he/she wants. Any editorial influence is pure conjecture. I seriously doubt they're consciously making an effort to have girls appear the way boys want...unless you're strictly talking about ecchi, which doesn't just appeal to young boys, I hope you know.

 

[Teeba]

LOL but One Piece, Bleach, and Naruto (when it was running) all had a 50-50 male to female readership ratio. The magazine may have a 20% female readership but the people who actually buy the volumes do not adhere to that percentage. Also AssClass currently has more female readers than male, so does Haikyuu!! They don't buy the magazine, but they sure buy the volumes, which actually contributes to the mangaka's income.

(I'm going to need to find that damn chart showing how many women actually buy Shonen Jump comics, brb)

---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------

Found the chart. This was published in 2012 btw, but I doubt this information has changed drastically in the past 3 years. I was slightly wrong about Naruto, but 54%-46% is still pretty damn even.

[link to article in Japanese]

 

[Leoat12]

Sorry, but you have no idea what is said in their editor's room.

The objective is to make good stories that appeal to their audience. The author can choose to display his characters the way he/she wants. Any editorial influence is pure conjecture. I seriously doubt they're consciously making an effort to have girls appear the way boys want...unless you're strictly talking about ecchi, which doesn't just appeal to young boys, I hope you know.

meh, is it the argument you have to disagree with the obvious?

I agree with the first phrase and they audience is boys. The authors can do what they want, but in the end it is the editors that choose what is suitable to the magazine, did you remember Shingeki no Kyojin case? It was rejected because it doesn't fit the magazine. If they think that the series is too feminine, they will probably reject because it is not suitable for the target public. Ecchi is an important part of the thing, although it has decreases in popularity in Jump.
I will give some examples of good female characters IMO, make your conclusions from this: Nami, Uraraka, Robin, Alice. What they have in common?
None of them are MC and yet they have space in the cast, it is not necessary to be MC as long as the character is good enough.

As a romance, I put Nisekoi aside because it is an entire different world when it comes to girls and what the readers expect from them.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

Seems like Black Clover will get two consecutive color pages!

 

[Nii]

There's a theme with these comments...maybe Jump should just start printing NO GIRLS ALLOWED real big on their cover every week.

Why are you quoting me when I'm basically pro more female MC's? All I'm trying to say is that there are reasons we hardly get female MC's, it just comes with more risks. Really, this whole discussion feels like it turned into some feminism/anti-feminism arguing, while I doubt that's the intention of most people here. Personally I can see why we don't have many female leads from a bussiness point of view and in the end that's what is most important to the staff. Doesn't mean it's necessarily a "good" decision, but at least somewhat understandable

 

[Drmke]

Why are you quoting me when I'm basically pro more female MC's? All I'm trying to say is that there are reasons we hardly get female MC's, it just comes with more risks. Really, this whole discussion feels like it turned into some feminism/anti-feminism arguing, while I doubt that's the intention of most people here. Personally I can see why we don't have many female leads from a bussiness point of view and in the end that's what is most important to the staff. Doesn't mean it's necessarily a "good" decision, but at least somewhat understandable

Yeah, your comments weren't quite at the level of the others for sure.

But the business argument or the "it's aimed at boys"argument just simply don't appear to fly. The idea that these magazines are specifically aimed at particular genders (and to a large extent age groups) is less and less important every year. Maybe a decade or so ago, young girls felt obligated to read shojo, young boys shonen, older boys seinen, etc., but that's definitely not the case now. Those identifications are mostly tradition now than anything else. From a business standpoint, marketing to as many possible demographics with one item is generally the goal. How could it possibly be bad business to aim the for the other half of the population?

 

[xi0]

How could it possibly be bad business to aim the for the other half of the population?

Because it just simply isn't. The most popular series in the magazine are universally popular. Thanks for the chart, Teeba.

 

[Teeba]

Because it just simply isn't. The most popular series in the magazine are universally popular. Thanks for the chart, Teeba.

No problem, xi0!

I found the Assclass chart as well, but its kind of hard to decipher. Its from 2013 when Japanese booksellers were asked to rank which series they prefered. As you can see, a series that sells 700,000 copies per volume has slightly more women than men in its fanbase:

 

[ElJin]

Seems like Black Clover will get two consecutive color pages!

What?

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

Had hope for Lady Justice since I wasn't remembering seeing the oneshot, but it isn't appealing much to me.

Lady Justice oneshot - http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3075430449
Devilyman oneshot - http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3211707148

I won't even bother looking for the first, as it looks waaay too out of my taste. Black Clover, Kagamigami, Roggy & UBS looked so much more interesting and were quite good.

I can't say about the history, but in art, Lady Justice is very, very weak. The character design and the draw needs to be greatly improved, even the distribution of panels are typical of a beginner, I hope the author has improved this aspect. About Devilyman, art, world and designs are characteristic and unique, wich pleases me personally... Although Hachi and Illegal Rare also had those same qualities.

 

[Hunt]

 

[Nii]

Yeah, your comments weren't quite at the level of the others for sure.

But the business argument or the "it's aimed at boys"argument just simply don't appear to fly. The idea that these magazines are specifically aimed at particular genders (and to a large extent age groups) is less and less important every year. Maybe a decade or so ago, young girls felt obligated to read shojo, young boys shonen, older boys seinen, etc., but that's definitely not the case now. Those identifications are mostly tradition now than anything else. From a business standpoint, marketing to as many possible demographics with one item is generally the goal. How could it possibly be bad business to aim the for the other half of the population?

Because it could possibly be disliked by one side if it tends too much to the other? xD Finding a middle ground without scaring off (or disliked or whatever) the, by your words former, main target group isn't particularly easy. Again it's bound to lots of risks, change in general is. I dunno, if all of you feel it's so obvious that it has to aim at both and that it's only the logical conclusion then why exactly do we have a marginal amount of female MC's in Jump? What I'm trying to express here is understanding for the Jump editors and mangakas, not bashing or ordering them to have more female leads.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

Yeah, your comments weren't quite at the level of the others for sure.

But the business argument or the "it's aimed at boys"argument just simply don't appear to fly. The idea that these magazines are specifically aimed at particular genders (and to a large extent age groups) is less and less important every year. Maybe a decade or so ago, young girls felt obligated to read shojo, young boys shonen, older boys seinen, etc., but that's definitely not the case now. Those identifications are mostly tradition now than anything else. From a business standpoint, marketing to as many possible demographics with one item is generally the goal. How could it possibly be bad business to aim the for the other half of the population?

It is bad business strategy to aim at to much!

You're confusing, which people like your work and what you target. They are totally different things.
If your work is good and has a lot of quality and has luck with marketing, visibility and word of mouth, then it will be loved by everybody or at least a wide group of people.
But when you're making and start to expose your work, if you target to much you end up not hitting anything. So having focus is something important, and not just for manga, but for any business.
Good example of this is the recent Sunrise separation. Now Sunrise has a "spin-off" company, Bandai Namco Pictures, that handles all the family and kids franchises of Sunrise. So now Gintama, Aikatsu, Tribe Cool Crew and others are part of Bandai Namco Pictures and not Sunrise. This was done with the objective of having a better focus in terms of target audience and with that a better utilization of the series franchises.


Now about not existing girls main characters in Jump. That is not just a jump thing and also not just a Manga thing either. Normally in books, movies, theater plays the main character is a male one.
Like it or not this is something that had been for a long time and only a few number of authors, and when targeting some audiences(shoujo, romance stories, ...) will try to change it in their works, and less in a Shonen Magazine.
But there are always exceptions to those rules. Like in Medaka Box(I didn't watched the anime nor read the manga, so I don't know if it is mainly ecchi XD).
So basically is not like a Jump editor will reject your work just because it has a female main character, but probably he will not be an enthusiast of that idea.

Also, if the reason of having a female main character instead of a male character is just to be different, then probably is better to keep with the male main character!

 

[SharkBait]

Seems like Black Clover will get two consecutive color pages!

Success confirmed.

----

Never understood the female main character argument that implies that a female main character = targeted towards females. Theres lots of shoujo manga with all male cast, or male protagonists afterall.

 

[Leoat12]

きっと、忘れられない、恋になる！！
This time the cover was only Chitoge and Raku, the covers are always so colorful and cheerful. Great cover as always.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Lead CP and the poster.

 

[jagman1x3]

I'd completely forgotten Lady Justice even existed. The sad part is, it was one of the better oneshots in that issue of Next.
Out of curiosity, have there been any other Next oneshots that got serialized without the oneshots having color pages (i.e. they obviously wanted people to read that one)?

 

[Leoat12]

I'd completely forgotten Lady Justice even existed. The sad part is, it was one of the better oneshots in that issue of Next.
Out of curiosity, have there been any other Next oneshots that got serialized without the oneshots having color pages (i.e. they obviously wanted people to read that one)?

Do you recommend it? Well, it is not surprising, they make oneshots to test the story and if they are serializing it, the test was positive. When the oneshot was published?

 

[RafaFedKilla]

Black Clover having consecutive color pages during new series launch is excellent news. I guess out of this new batch Im most interested in Yoko's dancing manga. I'm a little surprised they haven't serialized anything from last Springs Jump Next that had a bunch of sports oneshots. Best Blue, Try Zone, Haru and even the baseball had potential.

 

[Pietro]

I dislike all of the new series by my first impression.I'm waiting to decide better when chapter's will be scanned