Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Doughboy]

To be fair, there is nothing wrong with a character being sexy.
Maybe it's just me, a paradoxon, that as a woman, I want well-written (female) characters, while as a lesbian, I like big boobs on female characters, but there is nothing wrong with female characters who are also eye candy. Bayonetta from the game Bayonetta is actually a good female character. She's sexy, knows it AND owns it and has fun with it, while having a strong personality with a goal she's persuing.
The actual problem starts when the female character is forced to be sexualize, and is even embarassed about it.
Though to be honest, Bayonetta as a character is a topic of many heated debates, it's mostly my opinion here.

Ivy from Soul Calibur is another. She’s basically everything you described here.

 

[OfficialHxH]

 

[ChocoBar9]

Aoyama in a one chapter non major moment (hes male weird to bring him up).

Actually he's had three (saving Tokoyami and Bakugou, being the bait in the the License Exam which lead to him and rest of the cast passing) also good job not reading the post.

jirou in a non major non action non important moment doesnt seem like its addressing the shortfall of the female characters lack of importance in major arcs.

.....she fought in the USJ arc way back in the beginning of the manga.

same for yaoyaorozu whose only notable moment was as todorokis decoy in a training single chapter.

.....was the reason why All Might and the other heroes found the VAs hideout and the reason why Deku, Kirishima and Todoroki didn't kill themselves also Todoroki was the decoy not Momo.

Your criticism of how MHA treats female characters while advocating Black Clover as the best shounen every week is the reason why people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[nonowa]

Eh; Black Clover isn't a good manga, but it treats its female cast way better than HeroAca (then again, HeroAca is a pretty low bar to cross). When will HeroAca have a Meleoleona? Probably never.

 

[SharkBait]

I dont see how training or a battle tourney is the same as say kirishima saving baks or mirio fighting hard for eri. Surely people would be glad to see ochako do something at a similar level. .

 

[shoyoboyo]

I'm pretty sure Mineta is Hori's exaggerated self-insert or something. I don't think I know anyone who likes him.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Eh; Black Clover isn't a good manga, but it treats its female cast way better than HeroAca (then again, HeroAca is a pretty low bar to cross).

Like how four female characters are in love with the MC and don't really have anything going for them or attribute to nothing?

When will HeroAca have a Meleoleona? Probably never.

And thank god for that since she's a terrible character. Problem is that people like you seems to believe that a good female character means that she needs to be strong which is a very stupid mindset I mean Sakura was strong.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2018 ---

I dont see how training or a battle tourney is the same as say kirishima saving baks or mirio fighting hard for eri. Surely people would be glad to see ochako do something at a similar level. .

Did you systematically ignore the fact that Momo saved her classmates lives during the forest training? Your bait is much weaker than usual this week.

 

[xAsum0x]

Dude said Meleoleona lmao

 

[nonowa]

Like how four female characters are in love with the MC and don't really have anything going for them or attribute to nothing?

Noelle might like the MC, but she has a character arc, relevance to the story and has been getting constant power-ups since she was introduced. She got to humiliate her brother during the tournament. One of the girls that liked Asta gave up and was written out. Ochako's character arc is accepting that she likes Deku. That's the extent of her character.

And I'd take a Meleleona over the completely wasted dragon lady from HeroAca's newest arc.

 

[De La Croissant]

I understand the criticism about the lack of screentime for the female cast in MHA, but as characters I quite like them. They are not the stereotype of the housewife-I-want-to-get-married nor the stereotype of the badass-fighter-I-hate-men-I'm-antisocial. They look like the girls I met in high school. Real, normal girls.

 

[ShenGao]

Noelle might like the MC, but she has a character arc, relevance to the story and has been getting constant power-ups since she was introduced. She got to humiliate her brother during the tournament. One of the girls that liked Asta gave up and was written out. Ochako's character arc is accepting that she likes Deku. That's the extent of her character.

And I'd take a Meleleona over the completely wasted dragon lady from HeroAca's newest arc.

You mean the brother who was Noelle's archnemesis since the start of the story and after whose defeat she literally didn't celebrate, scream at him for the years of pain he caused her or showed any emotion at all? There was more emotional investment during the teleportation brothers fight and that little brother was a literal who before that arc.
I wouldn't take a character who has written "jobber" all over her face over anything.

 

[SharkBait]

Like how four female characters are in love with the MC and don't really have anything going for them or attribute to nothing?


And thank god for that since she's a terrible character. Problem is that people like you seems to believe that a good female character means that she needs to be strong which is a very stupid mindset I mean Sakura was strong.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2018 ---

Did you systematically ignore the fact that Momo saved her classmates lives during the forest training? Your bait is much weaker than usual this week.

Again "training"

 

[nonowa]

I wouldn't take a character who has written "jobber" all over her face over anything.

Err... Meleoleona is the overpowered (one more to the pile...) new captain that they introduced as the strongest ever.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Noelle might like the MC, but she has a character arc, relevance to the story and has been getting constant power-ups since she was introduced. She got to humiliate her brother during the tournament.

So Noelle is a good female character because she gets powerups and she defeated an obvious jobber. Wow she's Sakura tier now.

One of the girls that liked Asta gave up and was written out.

You do know the irony of you citing BC having better female characters than MHA when Tabata literally wrote one of them out like nothing right?

Ochako's character arc is accepting that she likes Deku. That's the extent of her character.

Hilariously enough she hasn't even brought up Deku since the License arc and the end of the Yakuza arc had her realize that she wants to save people as oppose to just doing it to support her family. But yay Noelle beat her douchey brother and nothing came from it since

And I'd take a Meleleona over the completely wasted dragon lady from HeroAca's newest arc.

So you'd take a bad character then. Alright.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2018 ---

Again "training"

That wasn't training.

 

[ShenGao]

Err... Meleoleona is the overpowered (one more to the pile...) new captain that they introduced as the strongest ever.

Yeah, and that's how jobbers are introduced. A character who can defeat everyone appears out of nowhere, takes care of every enemy, the heroes feel invincible with that character on their side, someone even stronger appears on the enemy side and defeats said character, the MC and his friends have to defeat the new stronger enemy now which they will be able to do because of plot armor/nakama power/some other bullshit.
That's the 101 of "How to write Battle Shonen Manga."

 

[Newkerzy]

I'm pretty sure Mineta is Hori's exaggerated self-insert or something. I don't think I know anyone who likes him.

....I do.

The only reason why I like him is simply because he is this utter loser who just wants a chance to prove himself. Most of all, he was also one of the first people to befriend Deku, who was literally friendless before he came to UA.

If Horikoshi's going to give him the spotlight again, I think it would be a scenario where he finds out about OFA and the villains torture him, but he resists while almost dying if only because of his loyalty.

 

[shoyoboyo]

Fair enough. I just hate how every time he appears he's yelling about titties or panties. There's a perverted comic relief character, and then there's Mineta who is beyond degeneracy. It's amazing that he even has friends.
Maybe I would understand him more if there was some reason for his excessive pervertedness besides "hehe le perverted japs amirite?". Furuichi is a good example.

 

[nonowa]

So Noelle is a good female character because she gets powerups and she defeated an obvious jobber. Wow she's Sakura tier now.

Learn to read. She has a character arc, dealing with her superiority-inferiority complex and her status as royalty beyond liking Asta, and has gotten entire chapters dedicated to it. Ochako gets panels here and there before getting written out for entire arcs.

You do know the irony of you citing BC having better female characters than MHA when Tabata literally wrote one of them out like nothing right?

Dragon Lady and Bubble Girl also got written out so I don't get this defense. I mean, Hori unceremoniously killed one of the only two girls in the Villains Alliance just to show that the yakuza were even worse.

Hilariously enough she hasn't even brought up Deku since the License arc and the end of the Yakuza arc had her realize that she wants to save people as oppose to just doing it to support her family. But yay Noelle beat her douchey brother and nothing came from it since.

Actually, I'm referencing that dumb and cheesy chapter in which she helps the girl find her mom in the dumb festival and starts realizing what being royalty actually means. That's Noelle's character arc and it definitely gets more attention than Ochako getting 1 or 2 panels here and there.

Yeah, and that's how jobbers are introduced. A character who can defeat everyone appears out of nowhere, takes care of every enemy, the heroes feel invincible with that character on their side, someone even stronger appears on the enemy side and defeats said character, the MC and his friends have to defeat the new stronger enemy now which they will be able to do because of plot armor/nakama power/some other bullshit.
That's the 101 of "How to write Battle Shonen Manga."

Tabata forgot she was going to use her to job. He basically pulled a Bleach and made all the fights in the hide-out irrelevant with the obvious "it was a trap to leave the castle unprotected" twist.

Either way, this conversation is dumb. Black Clover is a bad manga and I feel certain that Hori couldn't give 2 shits about the female cast independently of what BC does or doesn't. This wasn't even my discussion, it was SharkBait's. My whole point was exemplifying how HeroAca might as well have the worst treatment for female characters out of any Jump manga right now. Why couldn't Nejire and Dragon Lady get a single chapter dedicated to them when Sun-Eater and Fat Boy got like 4? Give me more Emmas and Keis, less Ochakos.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Learn to read. She has a character arc, dealing with her superiority-inferiority complex and her status as royalty beyond liking Asta and has gotten entire chapters dedicated to them. Ochako gets panels here and there before getting written out for entire arcs.

So what? Anyone can have a character but if your only defense for her being a good female character is that "she gets stuff" but if its not substantial who cares and the fact that you're struggling to find what very little reliance she has in the story is hilarious in itself. Also Ochako had several chapters dedicated to her and even contributed in more fights than Noelle ever did.

Dragon Lady and Bubble Girl also got written out so I don't get this defense. I mean, Hori unceremoniously killed one of the only two girls in the Villains Alliance just to show that the yakuza were even worse.

Except they didn't get written out since they both contributed in the fight against the Yakuza and the aftermath. They weren't written out. I'm not even going to touch the latter point since that's just you grasping for straws.

Actually, I'm referencing that dumb and cheesy chapter in which she helps the girl find her mom in the dumb festival and starts realizing what being royalty actually means. That's Noelle's character arc and it definitely gets more attention than Ochako getting 1 or 2 panels here and there.

You literally said something that was false and then changed the subject like an idiot. And referenced something that was months ago to something that just happened recently. Good job.

Tabata forgot she was going to use her to job. He basically pulled a Bleach and made all the fights in the hide-out irrelevant with the obvious "it was a trap to leave the castle unprotected" twist.

I'm not even sure if you're even defending Black Clover anymore

Either way, this conversation is dumb. Black Clover is a bad manga and I feel certain that Hori couldn't give 2 shits about the female cast independently of what BC does or doesn't. This wasn't even my discussion, it was SharkBait's.

Despite the damning evidence that shows otherwise.

My whole point was exemplifying how HeroAca might as well have the worst treatment for female characters out of any Jump manga right now. Why couldn't Nejire and Dragon Lady get a single chapter dedicated to them when Sun-Eater and Fat Boy got like 4? Give me more Emmas and Keis, less Ochakos.

And thanks for proving my point that you don't even know what exemplifies good treatment of female characters in shounen I mean that's why you're defending Black Clover of all titles, citing that writing out a female character from the story is good thing but call it a poor treatment of female characters if they're not given panel time 24/7 and dimissing any evidence that proves otherwise. I mean you literally used Meleoleona as an example of a good female character in a shounen. Jesus Christ.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2018 ---

I understand the criticism about the lack of screentime for the female cast in MHA, but as characters I quite like them. They are not the stereotype of the housewife-I-want-to-get-married nor the stereotype of the badass-fighter-I-hate-men-I'm-antisocial. They look like the girls I met in high school. Real, normal girls.

That criticism can apply to males as well hence why its silly. Its a shounen manga for one thing and the most prominent and dominate characters are always going to be male. They're saying that somehow Hori is worse with treating female characters because they're not given as much panel time....as the main characters.

 

[De La Croissant]

Either way, this conversation is dumb. Black Clover is a bad manga and I feel certain that Hori couldn't give 2 shits about the female cast independently of what BC does or doesn't. This wasn't even my discussion, it was SharkBait's. My whole point was exemplifying how HeroAca might as well have the worst treatment for female characters out of any Jump manga right now. Why couldn't Nejire and Dragon Lady get a single chapter dedicated to them when Sun-Eater and Fat Boy got like 4? Give me more Emmas and Keis, less Ochakos.

Emma is cute. A female MC, finally. She just started to have spotlight now, tho. In the early arcs Ray and Norman were more relevant. She also runs away from those stereotypes I mentioned earlier, but, unfortunately, she fits into another: the perfect heroine. When Ochako fought against Bakugou, it was cool. She was was crying, bleeding, sweating, she was giving her all. I want to root for her. I root for her. GO, GURL! XD (I miss it, Horikoshi!). Anyway, this doesn't happen with Emma. And why? Because whenever there is trouble, she overcomes it with a speech, a secret plan, a special ability, a pen. It's time for the author to be less complacent with her.

So, give me more Ochakos with Emma's screentime.