Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Rain Spectre]

I wonder how much is it is the modern image of the magazine. Is a writer who wants to do a sports manga going to try for jump which has this current image of only really having 2-3 at once, all of which are currently filled spots? Or maybe wsj just isn't accepting many since they're fine with the current lineup up them (one normal sport, one battle sport, one alternate weird semi-sport).

Perhaps? Jump has really been pushing its battle manga as their image, especially with stuff like Jump Force.

 

[Ctkk]

Are you referring to Ass Class as a battle manga? Because it's really not one, it's a 'criminal becomes teacher and helps students'-kinda manga (like GTO/Gokusen, whatever that genre's called) at its core with occasional brief action arcs.

Aside from that there's World Trigger (which did start in school but left it pretty quick to focus on the organisation) and Black Clover which is pure fantasy world.

I just wanted to separate from the spokons somehow and since the usual go-to classification around here is battle/sport/romcom/gag...

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2019, Original Post Date: May 24, 2019 ---

Black Clover is succesful, but not a mega-hit like mha(Then again AssClass is also way above mha)

World Trigger is hard to measure with the hiatus and whatnot.

 

[MysticCatto]

It's incredible how Horikoshi can go from an incredible hype arc (pro hero) to a boring, stretched out one (A vs B) to another hype arc (current one).
Shame that he doesn't make the students' dynamics as interesting as the LoV's, and that their character development is less interesting as well.

There seems to be this running theme in the series that the villains grow parallel to the heroes', and both the current arc and the previous arc presented the new powerups both sides had. I'm guessing the development of the villains was bound to be more interesting, since this is the first time an arc was solely focused on them. Though I am disappointed that most of class B didn't get good development too, it felt like Horikoshi kinda just wanted to show off only the central cast's new powerups, especially Deku's.

Although all this is hype, it does also feel like Horikoshi is deliberately trying to lengthen the series. I hope he's also planning out the story in more detail.

I just wanted to separate from the spokons somehow and since the usual go-to classification around here is battle/sport/romcom/gag...

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2019, Original Post Date: May 24, 2019 ---

Black Clover is succesful, but not a mega-hit like mha(Then again AssClass is also way above mha)

World Trigger is hard to measure with the hiatus and whatnot.

I hope Black Clover does become a mainstream hit alongside MHA. Right now there's just a lot of bad impressions surrounding it because of it's clicheness and Asta's voice.

 

[SharkBait]

I hope Black Clover does become a mainstream hit alongside MHA. Right now there's just a lot of bad impressions surrounding it because of it's clicheness and Asta's voice.

uhm it is a mainstream. what are you talking about?

also heroaca is pretty cliche, its not doing anything remotely unique or charting uncharted territories. If anything BLack Clover is unique in keeping Asta disasbled, Horikoshi instead is making Midoriya the next Superman with all these hidden abilities he can unlock...

 

[Jovan]

Also interesting that many of the not-insta cancelled series post 2010 have been sports manga. Kurogane at 68, Cross Manage at 42, Straighten Up at 86, Mononofu at 43, Robo at 62. These make up 5/9 manga post 2010 that made it past 40 chapters but were cancelled without taking off. They're certainly trying at least.

Besides Cross Manage that is the literal definition of Jump trying too hard to make a flop work (I loved the manga though, so thanks Shueisha!), most of the others were well recieved by the readers.

Kurogane was ranking pretty well until Chapter 34 I think (around Koisome Momiji-Sensei no Bulge-Saiki round). And it also played it out like that in sales: showed some potential in sales (starting from Vol 3 onwards) from a complete newbie mangaka but never broke through.
Sesuji wo Pin to! (though I am reluctant to call a ballroom competitve dancing manga a spokon) Didn't that one end thanks to it's mangaka? It had a great 2015 and 2016 reception wise, besides the short struggling phase of 3 weeks when Takuan no Batsu flopped. 2017 as well, and it ended despite not coming even close to the bottom either.
Mononofu as well as Kurogane for about 30ish chapters until it started crashing down to the bottom.
Robot x Laserbeam....oh boy was this a rocky one. Started well, then Saiyuki and Kamio Yui like crashed to the bottom with Hungry Marie, then pulled itself up (and Vol 2 sales as well) from #34 issue of 2017 onwards and peaked on #40 (being one of the rare who managed to show up before One Piece in the magazine) and #41 (2nd cover), then it started cooling down again but remained a mid-low tier player for the rest of 2017 for Jump, so it could finally become a Bottom 3 in early 2018 and falling to the Bottom 1 when JK-Noah-Ziga round started.

I don't think Jump was wrong to push any of these except for Cross Manage to be honest. It's just that neither of these (except Sesuji? No idea what was about that one) managed to hold the attention of the readers for too long, coupled with stagnating (low) or dropping sales.

 

[CuriousReborn]

Man I wish the raws for the new manga will come out already, I need more good sports

 

[SharkBait]

I hope its as good as Tokyo Wonder Boys was. That was perfect.

 

[Stivie]

reading the reviews made me realize with unnecessary complaints about the lack of sport manga this year.
the guys always invested however the great majority did not make any success and others ended up becoming "Cult classics" so to speak, it is more the fault of the authors for not presenting something at least interesting to follow than the own publisher.
now the jump is with 4 sport manga;
1 - haikyuu that still sells well and is still one of the big 3 of the current jump, maybe he or boku no hero miss the rank for samurai 8.
2 - hinomaru zumou that seems to end, unless the author invents to make a boruto zumou.
3 - Double taisei that seem to be for a more closed audience, equal to act age.
4 - beast children that looks more mainstream just like haikyuu.
I hope from the bottom of my heart that at least one of these 2 newcomers will succeed.

 

[tirakai]

Shokugeki is also a sports manga. It might be about cooking but it's written in a distinctly sports manga way.

And of those, Zumou and Shokugeki probably don't have long left So if neither of the new ones this batch take off there may be 1 sports series for a bit. Thankfully Haikyuu's still got 100+ chapters left in it so we have plenty of time to find something new but the magazine will be empty of sports long runners before long.

 

[Xzone]

Still not feeling S8, chapter 2 was better. It's like it has no substance, and kishi's style of writing is incompatible with how it is this work.

reading the reviews made me realize with unnecessary complaints about the lack of sport manga this year.
the guys always invested however the great majority did not make any success and others ended up becoming "Cult classics" so to speak, it is more the fault of the authors for not presenting something at least interesting to follow than the own publisher.
now the jump is with 4 sport manga;
1 - haikyuu that still sells well and is still one of the big 3 of the current jump, maybe he or boku no hero miss the rank for samurai 8.
2 - hinomaru zumou that seems to end, unless the author invents to make a boruto zumou.
3 - Double taisei that seem to be for a more closed audience, equal to act age.
4 - beast children that looks more mainstream just like haikyuu.
I hope from the bottom of my heart that at least one of these 2 newcomers will succeed.

I think is better to end Hinomaru. The author learned enought in this 5 years and I think working in something new is the best for him.

Haikyuu will depend on this matches, I would like to read what Furudate is making next, but is I also like to see a second year or a Japan U16/U18 team.

 

[anime64]

i liked the new one piece chapter

Spoiler: one piece chapter 943

wano arc is starting to get good
can.t wait for the final battle in onigashima
and after 5 years the reunion between zoro and sanji finally happened

 

[Jovan]

Samurai 8 is even slower paced than The Last Saiyuki for me lol. Besides the fact it is very, very generic (MC is still beyond meh to me, even ne0 and Higuma were better in that department), 3 chapters in and I feel like we haven't progressed or seen anything concrete regarding the goal, relevant characters setup or worldbuilding since Ch.1. Ch. 2 seems kind of pointless now that the character that was introduced is seemingly gone for indefinite time. The art didn't get any better as well, as it's still hard to understand what's going on some panels. Black Clover is a good example of how to handle a generic with great pacing, characters introductions, and progression. This one..not so much.

Ch.4 seems to finally tease something meaningful, so I am hoping it will deliver.

 

[Xzone]

Samurai 8 is even slower paced than The Last Saiyuki for me lol. Besides the fact it is very, very generic (MC is still beyond meh to me, even ne0 and Higuma were better in that department), 3 chapters in and I feel like we haven't progressed or seen anything concrete regarding the goal, relevant characters setup or worldbuilding since Ch.1. Ch. 2 seems kind of pointless now that the character that was introduced is seemingly gone for indefinite time. The art didn't get any better as well, as it's still hard to understand what's going on some panels. Black Clover is a good example of how to handle a generic with great pacing, characters introductions, and progression. This one..not so much.

Ch.4 seems to finally tease something meaningful, so I am hoping it will deliver.

Saiyuki problem is that they want to tell everything before the action began, making people stop reading after 7 chapter of infodump.
Samurai 8 problem is that kishi and Okubo seems to not knowing what path is the story follow. Also the little action in the series doesn't want to make you to see more.

Depending of your taste, you would like one or another, but even if you like S8, it still objectively a manga that feels that is written by a rookie.

 

[tirakai]

Having a ton of set up with lots of clear long-term plans but not much of a main direction set out is a thing some long time vets tend to do with new series though. Newbie writers tend to focus on either reinforcing the main goal from chapter one as much as possible and end up repeating stuff or they draw out the intro for too long.

Remember Hungry Marie also introduced a bunch of concepts quick that didn't fit together well and just felt like a directionless mess. I feel like it's maybe a thing with successful creators, they get complacent assuming they'll get plenty of time to expand on stuff and don't try hard to get the core premise all established in ch 1-3 like a lot of newbies do.

 

[Ctkk]

Kishimoto is probably banking a lot on people reading this because he's Kishimoto so he can take his time to get things rolling. We'll see how that works. He is Kishimoto after all. This isn't just any veteran, it's the creator of one the most successful manga of all time. There's no real precedent for a comeback that big, is there?

 

[Stivie]

Saiyuki problem is that they want to tell everything before the action began, making people stop reading after 7 chapter of infodump.
Samurai 8 problem is that kishi and Okubo seems to not knowing what path is the story follow. Also the little action in the series doesn't want to make you to see more.

Depending of your taste, you would like one or another, but even if you like S8, it still objectively a manga that feels that is written by a rookie.

whatever, at least the last saiyuki is better to read than samurai 8.
still has a very large visual pollution in samurai 8 that is poor reading on the cell phone, for example, those who have vision problems and have to wear glasses gets complicated.

Samurai 8 and HxH are the toughest manga to read on the phone.

 

[SalesNerd69]

Kishimoto is probably banking a lot on people reading this because he's Kishimoto so he can take his time to get things rolling. We'll see how that works. He is Kishimoto after all. This isn't just any veteran, it's the creator of one the most successful manga of all time. There's no real precedent for a comeback that big, is there?

Inoue and Togashi come to mind

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2019, Original Post Date: May 24, 2019 ---

Samurai 8 is even slower paced than The Last Saiyuki for me lol. Besides the fact it is very, very generic (MC is still beyond meh to me, even ne0 and Higuma were better in that department), 3 chapters in and I feel like we haven't progressed or seen anything concrete regarding the goal, relevant characters setup or worldbuilding since Ch.1. Ch. 2 seems kind of pointless now that the character that was introduced is seemingly gone for indefinite time. The art didn't get any better as well, as it's still hard to understand what's going on some panels. Black Clover is a good example of how to handle a generic with great pacing, characters introductions, and progression. This one..not so much.

Ch.4 seems to finally tease something meaningful, so I am hoping it will deliver.

I'm on the opposite end to you. The art imo improved from chapter 2 which was a huge improvement from ch 1. Its not perfect and still room for improvement but i didn't have to read every page 4-5 times like i did with chapter 1 and was able to get through it much easier

 

[Ctkk]

Inoue and Togashi come to mind

--- Double Post Merged, May 24, 2019, Original Post Date: May 24, 2019 ---

If those are the precedents then things sure bode well.

 

[LuckyJim]

Inoue and Togashi come to mind

Both produced highly successful series, but neither came close to Naruto's 15 year, 700 chapter run.

 

[Jovan]

Samurai 8 problem is that kishi and Okubo seems to not knowing what path is the story following.

They probably know, but the problem is that they are not showing it well. Or rather, they don't want to now.
For something that is supposed to be an adventure manga of finding the keys for Pandora, we still have no relevant characters that will assist for that (besides the obvious sensei and pet mascot character that every battle manga ever has at least one of these). On the other side, I think Kishomoto knows this one will stay if anything for a year at minimum, so he isn't going to be pressured into fast pacing the story. Shame, because Naruto started setting things up already at Chapter 3 and 4 with Sasuke, Sakura and Kakashi. I don't think anything close to that will happen here.

Having a ton of set up with lots of clear long-term plans but not much of a main direction set out is a thing some long time vets tend to do with new series though. Newbie writers tend to focus on either reinforcing the main goal from chapter one as much as possible and end up repeating stuff or they draw out the intro for too long.

Remember Hungry Marie also introduced a bunch of concepts quick that didn't fit together well and just felt like a directionless mess. I feel like it's maybe a thing with successful creators, they get complacent assuming they'll get plenty of time to expand on stuff and don't try hard to get the core premise all established in ch 1-3 like a lot of newbies do.

Oh my God, Hungry Marie. For one, I feel like the concept could have worked but with the setting and genre completely retooled as is. Surprised the Shueisha editors haven't said something, but I guess they thought it would work and sell anyways because Belzeebub.