Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Belkac3m]

wano arc is a disaster in terms of writing and everything.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Not sure if it qualifies as a disaster, but it's definitely a derailment IMO. It's kind of when the series has started showing its age, as it's using arc structures which were the norm for much its run, only those structures simply do not work for modern readers. Part of the problem is that Oda has kinda gone up his own ass in terms of how he designs his characters, and consequently the interest has gone down. Regardless of one's feelings on Dressrosa and Whole Cake Island, it's hard to deny that they introduced/developed plenty of popular characters, and bar maybe Tama, I don't think any of the characters in Wano have had that same impact.

 

[Nemesis]

Isnt that normal though? Whenever I see a picture/video of a mangaka's volume collection or bookshelf it can give you a good idea of what his taste are. I remember with Togashi's Jump Ryu video I paused it at certain points to see what volumes he owns. It's not surprising tbh.

Speaking of Jump ryu and is there any way to find the videos of other mangaka's? I remember someone posted most or all of them on youtube but it got taken down. I want to see Shimabu's again. I think in a lot of the Jump Ryu videos the mangaka's show their manga recommendations. I'm speaking about mangaka's that aren't as popular as Oda, Togashi, Araki, etc lol.

--- Double Post Merged, May 25, 2019, Original Post Date: May 25, 2019 ---

Oda seems to be aware of it himself to some extent. Enies Lobby is definitely gonna be hard to top off.

Wano is great though. I'm really excited for the OP anime for Wano after how WCI was handled beautifully.

Wano began nice and I'm now fed up with it. It reminds me of Dresrossa which was the first time I had to put one piece on hold as it was boring all the time.

 

[Nakura]

and now Jigokuraku official twitter is happy that Horikoshi own Jigokuraku volumes


people are focusing on his manga collection rather than the action figure

Even though MHA is almost 5 years old, it still feels weird to have followed Horikoshi since Sensei no Bulge, when he wasn't a huge name. Now, you have other mangaka freak out that he has their manga in his collection. I think that's why, even though I don't think MHA is the best in the magazine, I have the most attachment to it.

 

[Ctkk]

Wano began nice and I'm now fed up with it. It reminds me of Dresrossa which was the first time I had to put one piece on hold as it was boring all the time.

I remember back when Dressrosa was going on everyone kept hating on it, but now I see mostly praise for it, and I think it's because of the many people that have joined the fandom since then and didn't have to wait week to week for it. I'm sure it'll happen with Wano too. It probably happens in other series, too, but One Piece is the most notorious due to the immense length of the arcs.

 

[Rain Spectre]

I remember back when Dressrosa was going on everyone kept hating on it, but now I see mostly praise for it, and I think because of the many people that have joined the fandom since then and didn't have to wait week to week for it. I'm sure it'll happen with Wano too. It probably happens in other series, too, but One Piece is the most notorious due to the immense length of the arcs.

I don't disagree that would factor in, but even in Dressrosa you had plenty of fan favorites being introduced or developed like Law, Sabo, Bartelomeo and Cavendish. Over 30 chapters into Wano and we haven't really seen any of that.

 

[supercow297]

Not going to quote everyone, but hopefully you'll know who I'm responding to if it's you.

BC vs BNHA
In general, the consensus has been that BC has been better for the past 50 chapters. Although the last chapter of BnHA was pretty good tbh.

BnHA
I think all the points in that long response defending BNHA are essentially dissing BnHA. E.g. you say that the overhaul arc has lower/unique stakes because the stakes aren't the drugs getting out but rather Eri. That seems laughable, the fact that Horikoshi doesn't write consequences besides individuals needing to be saved.

BnHA is a superhero manga
Don't think this is a valid defense of its shallow characters, poor pacing and contrived storytelling.

One piece
Haven't read past Act One but that Takanogym stuff was hilarious.

Horikoshi knows what he's doing
"See, he develops villains when he needs to, he develops class B when it's needed!" (Hope I didn't strawman too much in summarizing that)

Horikoshi is basically playing Pokemon but he only fights with his starter Bulbasaur, say. Then he gets to a fire/flying gym (allow it) and realizes his other Pokemon are all level 1. So now he goes to grind them all for 50 hours to get to his Bulba's level.

That's basically what he's doing now. Whoops class B is too weak! Let me force an unforeshadowed training in. Villains suck, crap! Let's add a "meanwhile..." At the end of a heroes arc and show how of course, the villains are relevant and have been getting stronger!

Hype
Now this is a new one.
You're saying I'm judging Chainsawman, Kimetsu, World Trigger, BC etc based only on hypeness and it doesn't mean anything for which series is actually better? And I just don't think BNHA is as hype?

Well, besides all the points I've been reinforcing over and over, sure, I'll give it to you that BNHA is also the least hype of all of those. Except (Shiggy hand bomb and Twice kage bunshin) were pretty hype.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2019, Original Post Date: May 26, 2019 ---

I remember back when Dressrosa was going on everyone kept hating on it, but now I see mostly praise for it, and I think it's because of the many people that have joined the fandom since then and didn't have to wait week to week for it. I'm sure it'll happen with Wano too. It probably happens in other series, too, but One Piece is the most notorious due to the immense length of the arcs.

Lowkey what if it's just because Japan is more boring than other countries? Unironically. Plus all of the Japanese quirks in Wano every Japanese kid already has been exposed to.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Not going to quote everyone, but hopefully you'll know who I'm responding to if it's you.

BC vs BNHA
In general, the consensus has been that BC has been better for the past 50 chapters. Although the last chapter of BnHA was pretty good tbh.

BnHA
I think all the points in that long response defending BNHA are essentially dissing BnHA. E.g. you say that the overhaul arc has lower/unique stakes because the stakes aren't the drugs getting out but rather Eri. That seems laughable, the fact that Horikoshi doesn't write consequences besides individuals needing to be saved.

BnHA is a superhero manga
Don't think this is a valid defense of its shallow characters, poor pacing and contrived storytelling.

One piece
Haven't read past Act One but that Takanogym stuff was hilarious.

Horikoshi knows what he's doing
"See, he develops villains when he needs to, he develops class B when it's needed!" (Hope I didn't strawman too much in summarizing that)

Horikoshi is basically playing Pokemon but he only fights with his starter Bulbasaur, say. Then he gets to a fire/flying gym (allow it) and realizes his other Pokemon are all level 1. So now he goes to grind them all for 50 hours to get to his Bulba's level.

That's basically what he's doing now. Whoops class B is too weak! Let me force an unforeshadowed training in. Villains suck, crap! Let's add a "meanwhile..." At the end of a heroes arc and show how of course, the villains are relevant and have been getting stronger!

Hype
Now this is a new one.
You're saying I'm judging Chainsawman, Kimetsu, World Trigger, BC etc based only on hypeness and it doesn't mean anything for which series is actually better? And I just don't think BNHA is as hype?

Well, besides all the points I've been reinforcing over and over, sure, I'll give it to you that BNHA is also the least hype of all of those. Except (Shiggy hand bomb and Twice kage bunshin) were pretty hype.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2019, Original Post Date: May 26, 2019 ---

Lowkey what if it's just because Japan is more boring than other countries? Unironically. Plus all of the Japanese quirks in Wano every Japanese kid already has been exposed to.

Lets counter there, Supercow.

BC vs MHA
Yes, a large amount of consensus has been that BC has been superior for the last year or so...because BC was telling the Elf Invasion, a massive arc that brought together tons of plot threads, while MHA was in a smaller arc about character growth. No duh one would be generating more hype than the other.

MHA
...Dude, you say that when your fave manga is about a guy who just want to gets laid. Saying "Saving Eri is what matters" is relevant because it's heroic, not "more important".

Superhero
Dude, what he was arguing is that you're judging the manga on basis of something completely different. Using Chainsawman is silly because, as a manga, it is virtually nothing like MHA in tone or structure.

The Pokemon Thing
Yet again, I am scratching my head here, because the LoV was always designed to grow as an entity in much the same way as Class 1-A. Your argument makes it sound like you want everything to be developed in a single arc, which the later arcs of One Piece has shown is often a terrible idea because it makes the plot a clusterfuck.

That Wano Arc Comment
Nice casual racism. Real smooth.

I'm overall tilting my head as to why you're still fighting this battle, when very few people agree with you, it's clear no one likes having this debate, and all it does is make you look petty and biased towards "muh realism" (BTW, your argument about Chainsaw Man being realism falls flat when you remember Fujimoto is a film otaku and all his work is inspired by that). Stop it, seriously, stop it.

 

[WyldViolet]

Why do you keep misconstruing everything he says? It's getting cartoonish at this point.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2019, Original Post Date: May 26, 2019 ---

I'd like to see something new in Jump kind of sentai inspired. Or at the very least different colored matching armor like Saint Seiya.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2019 ---

"BTW, your argument about Chainsaw Man being realism falls flat when you remember Fujimoto is a film otaku and all his work is inspired by that). Stop it, seriously, stop it."
I'm baffled by this statement. What are you talking about?

 

[Rain Spectre]

Ugh...changing the topic, do you guys think MangaPlus should support an English version of the reader surveys Jump does?

 

[WyldViolet]

No, explain what
"BTW, your argument about Chainsaw Man being realism falls flat when you remember Fujimoto is a film otaku and all his work is inspired by that). Stop it, seriously, stop it."
Means.

 

[xAsum0x]

Ugh...changing the topic, do you guys think MangaPlus should support an English version of the reader surveys Jump does?

Changing the topic ain’t gonna happen he’s gonna reply back lol

 

[Rain Spectre]

Well, to that, I'm not giving a response because I'm tired of this argument taking over the thread with walls of text.

 

[WyldViolet]

Well, to that, I'm not giving a response because I'm tired of this argument taking over the thread with walls of text.

Are you saying film can't strive for pure realism? Are you familiar with sa the majority of the entire french new wave? Or truly raw black comic portrayals of humanity like the work of Reiner Werner Fassbinder?
Or something in between like Jon Morigutsu?
Why can't Fujimoto be influenced by many types of Manga, film, and other art mediums? (One filmmaker he's clearly inspired by is Shinya Tsukamoto) (I love how fujimoto wears all his influences on his sleeve yet his work still feels so unique to him)
Stop limiting the way you see things.

 

[Thundercat27]

Rain Spectre, you got me listening for a moment, then you totally lost me.
While Rica kept name droping, or Supercow spew out biased arguements, I still find myself siding with them.

Also, I disagree with Supercow's so called "casual racist". I think the end of Edo era is really interesting. It is just Oda's hamfisted and cartoonist style, dumbing down while still trying to reference real life history make this arc a chore to get through.

 

[MysticCatto]

Ugh...changing the topic, do you guys think MangaPlus should support an English version of the reader surveys Jump does?

I'd like to participate in the surveys

 

[Scruffy8642]

Does anyone else currently read everything in WSJ? Everyone's talking about stuff they've dropped but personally I love sitting down on Monday after work just spending a couple hours reading through all the new chapters together. Especially now that Manga+ even has the flops and gag stuff in English right away (I'm sad there's no Yuuna on there but sometimes it's out in time to read alongside everything else).

There's stuff I don't like much of course but that's part of the experience for me, it's fun to see all the ups and downs each week together and compare their ranking with what I think of stuff putting them all side by side. The only thing I don't really read is Bort but I always give it a quick skim through at least and it's only monthly anyway.

I do ish. I actually think most stuff in Jump has been pretty bad these past 6+ months. Went from being generally up to date (<5 chapter behind) on everything in the magazine for years, to like >15 chapters behind on most stuff. I'm just really not impressed as a whole with the magazine. Haven't even bothered to read the new series yet which says something, since I normally read them the second they're out. Beast Children has me somewhat interested at least. Most series just went into arcs I really didn't care about. Chainsawman and HZ are the only two I actually look forward to reading weekly (as well as David RIP), and I'm more invested in MHA, TPN & OP than the others, so while I do fall behind, I do generally still want to read them every few weeks, but they're also in bad arcs. Also up to date on Saiyuki & Kamio Yui since I'm still on the fence with my enjoyment on both.

The rest of the stuff is just in a slump personally, and most of them are still in the same arc I stalled them on. Kimetsu (has been eh for 2-3 arcs now), Stone (Hated Tsukasa, but ironically stopped caring once he was gone), Black Clover (lost interest around the stuff with Noelle's family this arc), Haikyuu (the pacing finally got the better of me), Jujutsu (Hasn't been a good arc yet so have zero desire to read it at all. Figure I'll binge the next 50 chapters when it reaches 100), Yuuna (Feels like it's already ended like 3 times but is still going...), Shokugeki (Nuff said). Been catching up on WNL and these last 20 chapters have been some of the better ones because stuff is actually happening. Also fell behind on Act-age, though I'm not really sure why since it was at quite an interesting part.

The thing that sets Chainsawman apart from the rest for me is that it's just simply unexpected and doesn't take itself seriously. That's all. Fujimoto doesn't give a shit and will just put the most batshit insane weird stuff in there every few chapters, and it makes it exciting to read and keeps me wanting to see what he comes up with next. I don't even care for the story (let's be honest, there isn't really one at this point), the character interactions are just damn fun. It's ballsy and it's raw, and it's something we just don't see in Jump all that often.

 

[Tamil]

Disagree there. Wano has been subject a lot of complaints over in Japan, mostly relating to how Oda made the arc too complicated and difficult to follow. The fact that he has dedicated so much time to the story of characters who feel largely irrelevant does not help.

Im quite behind but from what little Ive read its great. That said, I do notice that its ratings aren't great for the recent volume.

 

[Aeneas]

I'll just say: it's okay to not read a series.

Sometimes it feels like people are forcing themselves to read certain series. That's just asking to end up being disappointed in something.

 

[Tamil]

Lowkey what if it's just because Japan is more boring than other countries? Unironically. Plus all of the Japanese quirks in Wano every Japanese kid already has been exposed to.

Lol wat

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2019, Original Post Date: May 26, 2019 ---

I'll just say: it's okay to not read a series.

Sometimes it feels like people are forcing themselves to read certain series. That's just asking to end up being disappointed in something.

Or you can change the way you read it. I prefer to read OP in bulk. Quite a bit of series are like that for me in Jump.