Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Rain Spectre]

Yeh, Tabata used the naruto x fairy tail inspiration hugely, cuz his first manga failed.

Not really with Fairy Tail? Tabata's main source for the setting is closer to traditional high fantasy works like Guin Saga.

 

[animeexpert]

You act like an obnoxious asshole who loathe at people who are having a good time.
You are the only one here mentioned Kaguya, twice iirc. If you hate it that much, why don't you go to Young Jump thread and make an essay about how annoying those characters are, while plenty of readers keep reading and enjoying those annoying characters.

Cuz alot or atleast most of those fans dont/ watch much anime. Its basic tsundere romance but cuz of that dumb cringy weeabo dance, it became so famous and became an meme

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 12, 2019 ---

Not really with Fairy Tail? Tabata's main source for the setting is closer to traditional high fantasy works like Guin Saga.

Have u seen FT? The characters are literally mirrors of each other with just different attributes. Dont forget the setting about guilds & power spike about power of friendship/feels that FT made a huge brand

 

[Blink22]

Speaking of die-hard MHA fans. What happened to Chocobar/Jeremy? That bloke finally got perma-banned?

 

[Jovan]

Cuz alot or atleast most of those fans dont/ watch much anime. Its basic tsundere romance but cuz of that dumb cringy weeabo dance, it became so famous and became an meme

But...Chika's dance is not the reason why this manga is popular outside of Japan, which was by far one of the the most popular outside WSJ before anime even came around here (and Gotoubun, Spy x Family among others).

Every manga will have people who dislike it, because that is normal. But stop demeaning people who like it just because they happen to not be on your side.

 

[DyanSon]

Speaking of die-hard MHA fans. What happened to Chocobar/Jeremy? That bloke finally got perma-banned?

Umnn.... This isn't 4chan bub.

 

[Tarot]

Speaking of die-hard MHA fans. What happened to Chocobar/Jeremy? That bloke finally got perma-banned?

Got banned for arguing with someone. Don't remember what it was about.

 

[savethecat]

Not much different than MHA fans who still think the series is the greatest thing since sliced bread and get toxic as hell when you don't agree with them. The series peaked during OfA vs AfO and hasn't recovered since then but you don't see me wanting it to get axed out of spite.

Why’d you bring up MHA?

But just to engage, MHA has ran long enough to the point where it having a strong and solid fanbase makes complete sense. There are varying opinions on what is the best arc and there is no true right or wrong answer. YOU think it peaked at A4O vs. All Might, but people that doesn’t make your opinion objectively right.

No one is saying there’s anything wrong with liking Samurai 8(or at least I’m not). I personally don’t think it’s bad. Just not anything special either.

There are differences in both MHA and S8 fandomin which S8 comes off as significantly more obnoxious.

Regardless how you feel about MHA’s fanbase, MHA didn’t begin its run with die hard fans. MHA built its fanbase over the course of years and consistently released story arcs that the manga/anime community deem anywhere between good and great.

S8 built its fanbase solely on people being fans of Naruto. There isn’t exactly anything wrong with that. However, there are people who already made up their minds that S8 was going to be “Best New Manga Of The Year” before the first chapter was even released. There were subreddits and fan communities created months before we even got a legit synopsis.

Whenever S8 is criticized, you rarely see defenses based in logic. The most common defense is “it’s still early! It’ll get better”; “the first 5 chapters of Naruto weren’t good either. If you wait a few arcs it’ll get good”.

The “passionate” fanbase for S8 seems to be manufactured passionate. Not many of it’s fans seem to have love or defenses for the series based on its quality. Instead they only talk about the quality the series will “PROBABLY” have 20 chapters in.

Say what you want about MHA and it’s fans. MHA fans would argue your “MHA peaked at All Might Vs A4O” with legit reasonings as to why they believe you’re wrong and will speak their mind with conviction.

Spoiler

on top of that I don’t many people arguing that MHA is the great manga since Sliced Bread anyway. At most I only see fans of action/battle Shonen tote it as being the best MODERN Action Shonen, which is a fair and respectable opinion

 

[Maxy Barnard]

I’m surprised by anyone thinking MHA didn’t have die-hard stans out the gate. People were hollering about it being the next naruto from almost day dot

 

[fuzzb]

Toei only netted Toriko because it was being pushed like crazy by Shueisha due to nepotism (since Shimabukuro was Oda's best friend). Needless to say, I think it backfired on them in the long-term. As for World Trigger...I dunno.

That's one big turd of bullshit. Toei didn't pick up Toriko because of that, but because it felt it had similar audience like OP and DB. And only after picking it up, they did the crossovers. Also Shueisha wasn't pushing Toriko like crazy. During those "crazy pushes" other series had more promotions than Toriko. It's also the same thing right now. Dr. Stone, The Promised Neverland, We Never Learn, Kimetsu no Yaiba and few more. They have more CP and promotions than Toriko did. When a series is hot or has things happening about it, it's only normal to be promoted more than the regular bottom ToC series. That's how it's always been for Jump, that's how it will always be. And only morons who hate said series keep repeating "that series was super pushed", because they are blind idiots who had put their hate glasses and only choose to see what they get annoyed and fail to see other series they don't hate that it gets either the same or more promotion.
Also promoting Toriko didn't backfire... The series did great, sold tons of stuff, merchandise, games, movies. Yeah, anime didn't sell that much, but that's because it was targeted at younger audience. Do you expect 10 year olds to go and buy the dvds? That's what failed them, they made it too kiddy.
Also the fact that you coudn't explain WT, destroys your whole statement and proves that the other person was corrent.


About Samurai 8:
There are still people who fail to understand this: If you don't like the series, don't read it. No need for seeing each week same people hating on the series, telling how bad it is, etc. Sure say your point 1-2 times, but there is zero point in keep repeating it each week.
I enjoy S8, didn't like Naruto that much, but S8 is quite nice so far. So don't go make statements that "everyone" lost interest, hype, etc bullshits. You don't speak from my name. You don't speak from all of people's name. Just because you say 5-10 people hating it, means nothing.

 

[savethecat]

The people who “hate” it continue reading it because it’s the new series from the one the magazine’s biggest creators.

For most people who are still reading Jump, or are Action/Battle manga fans they were either huge Naruto fans at some point in their life, still like Naruto, or Naruto was their big introduction to manga/anime in general.

I said this earlier, but the vast majority of people “hating” on S8 aren’t people who actively want it to be bad or fail.

 

[westabyss]

Naruto's first chapter is one of the best of any series Jump published. It encompasses a lot of elements like human drama, action and mixes them perfectly. Also while giving you a perfect story told in one chapter but also leaving you behind wanting more. Plus, the way Kishimoto designs characters is just unique.

I was always disappointed by how lackluster the first chapter of Samurai 8 was compared to that and then the second chapter felt like the Konahamaru chapter but without that fresh energy Naruto had. Hopefully it'll get better once the journey really starts but i'll stop reading it for now. If it was any other new Jump series i would've dropped it after one chapter and i've given Kishimoto six chapters to catch me.

 

[Ctkk]

Mangas in the jump aren't exactly 5-5 on the gender ratio even if the Jump is has a really big amount of female readers.

We have some information about the ratio of male-female readers in some mangas:

Kimetsu no Yaiba: 4-6

The Promised Neverland: 4-6

Black Clover: 6-4

We Never Learn: 8-2

アニメ原作コミック売上ランキング | ほんのひきだし

hon-hikidashi.jp

I found some data from 2012, although only One Piece and Haikyuu are still in the magazine. This was the male-female percent:

One Piece 48.2 - 51.8

Haikyuu 32.2% - 62.8%

Challenge of the Demographics! Men and Women!

Strap yourself in. I'm about to blow away all your preconception about comic and manga gender demographics. It's actually more interesting than it sou

comicvine.gamespot.com

My Hero Academia should have a big amount of female readers. Act-Age may be in a similar situation.

Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san should have a lot more of male readers (like We Never Learn).

When I checked those statistics from the anime rankings, Quintuplets also had a 8:2 ratio, so it seems women aren't into harems, no matter how successful. On the other side, I think spokons in general have a strong female fanbase, and battle manga are more even.

I’m surprised by anyone thinking MHA didn’t have die-hard stans out the gate. People were hollering about it being the next naruto from almost day dot

Is it really comparable to Samurai 8, though? How many people even read new Jump series back then? Of Course MHA was an instant hit and sold over 100K first month, and then they started to push it alongside Black Clover as the next Big Three (that's clearly what they were going for) and the west obviously latched onto that pretty hard, and when the anime started Kishimoto pretty much spelled it out that 'yes, this is the next Naruto'. But all of that was after the first volume came out and there were signs of success already, wasn't it?

 

[Rain Spectre]

S8 built its fanbase solely on people being fans of Naruto. There isn’t exactly anything wrong with that. However, there are people who already made up their minds that S8 was going to be “Best New Manga Of The Year” before the first chapter was even released. There were subreddits and fan communities created months before we even got a legit synopsis.

Whenever S8 is criticized, you rarely see defenses based in logic. The most common defense is “it’s still early! It’ll get better”; “the first 5 chapters of Naruto weren’t good either. If you wait a few arcs it’ll get good”.

The “passionate” fanbase for S8 seems to be manufactured passionate. Not many of it’s fans seem to have love or defenses for the series based on its quality. Instead they only talk about the quality the series will “PROBABLY” have 20 chapters in.

Yep, and that's the thing which annoys me the most about this discourse, none of this is coming from a place of sincerity. Despite the countless people trying to tell me wrong, none of it feels like it comes from a place of people who genuinely believe in the manga, they just believe in Kishimoto to make it good.

That's one big turd of bullshit. Toei didn't pick up Toriko because of that, but because it felt it had similar audience like OP and DB. And only after picking it up, they did the crossovers. Also Shueisha wasn't pushing Toriko like crazy. During those "crazy pushes" other series had more promotions than Toriko. It's also the same thing right now. Dr. Stone, The Promised Neverland, We Never Learn, Kimetsu no Yaiba and few more. They have more CP and promotions than Toriko did. When a series is hot or has things happening about it, it's only normal to be promoted more than the regular bottom ToC series. That's how it's always been for Jump, that's how it will always be. And only morons who hate said series keep repeating "that series was super pushed", because they are blind idiots who had put their hate glasses and only choose to see what they get annoyed and fail to see other series they don't hate that it gets either the same or more promotion.
Also promoting Toriko didn't backfire... The series did great, sold tons of stuff, merchandise, games, movies. Yeah, anime didn't sell that much, but that's because it was targeted at younger audience. Do you expect 10 year olds to go and buy the dvds? That's what failed them, they made it too kiddy.
Also the fact that you coudn't explain WT, destroys your whole statement and proves that the other person was corrent.

I stand corrected then. Thank you for the answer, and I believe that gives some additional insight into how abnormal the situation with Samurai 8 is.

The people who “hate” it continue reading it because it’s the new series from the one the magazine’s biggest creators.

For most people who are still reading Jump, or are Action/Battle manga fans they were either huge Naruto fans at some point in their life, still like Naruto, or Naruto was their big introduction to manga/anime in general.

I said this earlier, but the vast majority of people “hating” on S8 aren’t people who actively want it to be bad or fail.

The amount of people who claim I "hate" Samurai 8 despite stating constantly I have no such feeling towards it is utterly ridiculous.

Naruto's first chapter is one of the best of any series Jump published. It encompasses a lot of elements like human drama, action and mixes them perfectly. Also while giving you a perfect story told in one chapter but also leaving you behind wanting more. Plus, the way Kishimoto designs characters is just unique.

I was always disappointed by how lackluster the first chapter of Samurai 8 was compared to that and then the second chapter felt like the Konahamaru chapter but without that fresh energy Naruto had. Hopefully it'll get better once the journey really starts but i'll stop reading it for now. If it was any other new Jump series i would've dropped it after one chapter and i've given Kishimoto six chapters to catch me.

I recall the buildup for Samurai 8, how there was so much talk about it and how it's first chapter was gonna be so good, to the point that I even broke my rules and read the Edited Manga because I was anticipating it so much...only to then finish it and go "That's it?". There's a bit of behavioral psychology in how the brain responds to something with so much buildup, but I still feel like, for a work with so much hype behind it, Samurai 8 started off on the wrong foot by not being bigger than the sum of its parts.

When I checked those statistics from the anime rankings, Quintuplets also had a 8:2 ratio, so it seems women aren't into harems, no matter how successful. On the other side, I think spokons in general have a strong female fanbase, and battle manga are more even.


Is it really comparable to Samurai 8, though? How many people even read new Jump series back then? Of Course MHA was an instant hit and sold over 100K first month, and then they started to push it alongside Black Clover as the next Big Three (that's clearly what they were going for) and the west obviously latched onto that pretty hard, and when the anime started Kishimoto pretty much spelled it out that 'yes, this is the next Naruto'. But all of that was after the first volume came out and there were signs of success already, wasn't it?

Ah, not surprising. What's Kaguya-sama's like? I'm curious about that.

HeroAca's reception was helped in no small part to the timing. Naruto's end had already been confirmed to be happening, and with that the mystery became if a battle manga would appear to fill the power vacuum that would come about. Then HeroAca appeared and blew everyone away, and the discussion quickly became all pointed around it. The fact that it was built on superheroes, a completely new idea which had become very much mainstream through the MCU, helped immensely. Then a bunch of other things happened, aaaand it kinda fit in place for HeroAca to become the flagship of the modern era.

 

[Xzone]

Is it really comparable to Samurai 8, though? How many people even read new Jump series back then? Of Course MHA was an instant hit and sold over 100K first month, and then they started to push it alongside Black Clover as the next Big Three (that's clearly what they were going for) and the west obviously latched onto that pretty hard, and when the anime started Kishimoto pretty much spelled it out that 'yes, this is the next Naruto'. But all of that was after the first volume came out and there were signs of success already, wasn't it?

Yeah, MHA began his translation in chapter 18 if I remember well.Many people were giving suport to Hori because it was his third try, the same way people gave support Iwashiro in kagaminami.
I think the only series comparable with Sam8 was Assclass, because we knew how was Matsui's style, but they where other times and Neuro wasn't as popular here than Naruto.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Yeah, MHA began his translation in chapter 18 if I remember well.Many people were giving suport to Hori because it was his third try, the same way people gave support Iwashiro in kagaminami.
I think the only series comparable with Sam8 was Assclass, because we knew how was Matsui's style, but they where other times and Neuro wasn't as popular here than Naruto.

Not to mention, AssClass became huge because it connected to students. It was a story very much about the faults of the Japanese education system, and the painful but hopeful journey of graduating from a time in your life that you loved but ultimately had to say goodbye to. That's a message I think many related to, and it's something Samurai 8 lacks.

 

[Ctkk]

Ah, not surprising. What's Kaguya-sama's like? I'm curious about that.

https://hon-hikidashi.jp/enjoy/75498/
7:3



Come to think of it, wouldn't the logical comparison to Sam 8 be Eden's Zero? You know, sci-fi comeback of a well-known author.

 

[MangAniMY]

Ah, not surprising. What's Kaguya-sama's like? I'm curious about that.

7:3

why won't most people click links?

 

[Rain Spectre]

Come to think of it, wouldn't the logical comparison to Sam 8 be Eden's Zero? You know, sci-fi comeback of a well-known author.

Because bringing up Hiro Mashima is an inevitable punchline. Even so, it doesn't really work, because the two are nothing alike on more than a surface level.

 

[supercow297]

Is it just me or is there a lot more arguments going on here? Even just six months ago when I joined I remember there being a lot of stats and news but recently it's just "which author is a pedo" "this series sucks" etc.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Is it just me or is there a lot more arguments going on here? Even just six months ago when I joined I remember there being a lot of stats and news but recently it's just "which author is a pedo" "this series sucks" etc.

You're hardly one to talk.