Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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101nemesis

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Alright, so:

This is Urasawa and Eguchi talking about Otomo, which, you know, is a legendary mangaka and stuff. What do they mention? The art and pacing (visual pacing, that is) (https://mangabrog.wordpress.com/201...-about-manga-in-the-70s-and-80s-mostly-otomo/)

Urasawa: I think I’d probably seen Otomo’s work somewhere before then, but it was after he started drawing with that linework in “Fireball” that I started remembering him.
Eguchi: To be honest, I didn’t think much of the story in “Fireball”. It’s all in the art. The visual intensity.
Urasawa: That, plus the way “Fireball” just goes on plunking down scene after scene without narration. It was different from the conventional rhythm in Japanese manga and more like something lifted from Kubrick or Peckinpah — the stuff that we considered hip, right there in a manga.
Eguchi: Otomo really did draw manga totally unlike anyone before him. Where manga artists back in the day would draw action lines, he wouldn’t. Or, like, the way he’d draw things under shadows. There were a ton of discoveries for me in terms of how to draw things to make them look a certain way.

This is Kishimoto talking about Hiroaki Samura, who he idolizes. What does he mention? Art. (https://mangabrog.wordpress.com/201...with-fawning-fanboy-masashi-kishimoto-naruto/)

Kishimoto: Anyway, I was blown away in university in a way I hadn’t been since Akira. I mean, that artwork! It felt so far away from anything I was capable of. The arms and legs especially. Afternoon had this section where artists were given a page to themselves, and I still remember being just floored by this character sitting in a chair that you drew there.

Samura is also praising Kishimoto's drawing ability, but it must mean he didn't think of anything else, right?

Samura: You know, though: I only started reading Naruto midway through the series, but you struck me as someone with a really high basic drawing ability.

Taiyo Matsumoto talking to Daisuke Igarashi, and the focus is, again, on drawings:

Taiyo Matsumoto: I feel like you kind of came out of nowhere. I’ve been drawing manga for about 25 years, but you really blew me away. I first heard your name around the time Witches came out, and at first I thought you were still new to the scene. This guy is just incredible, I thought—it was so polished and everything. I was a little worried for myself.
Daisuke Igarashi: I found out about you when I was a student. Your work was being featured in a magazine or something, and seeing your manga cover designs I thought to myself, “This is really good, this is my kind of art”, but I figured I would probably be influenced by it if I read it, though. That fear kind of trumped everything else, so I avoided your work for a long time. (laugh) Nowadays I actually read your work just to steal from it, though.
Matsumoto: I find I can’t tell who you’ve been influenced by when I look at your work. With most manga artists you can see that, Oh, this artist’s a Katsuhiro Otomo fan, this one’s a Yumi Tada fan. With your art, though, I can’t tell; you leave me wondering, “What artist is this guy into?” You’re original, I guess is what I’m saying. Hmmm… it feels kind of like you’ve come to manga via painting.


I could go on, but anyway. Mangaka are focused on art and drawing ability, they are artists and they think of what they do differently than us. Kubo praising Horikoshi art is not a bad thing, just the opposite. It's what they tend to look for.
Oh no, what have you done. This clearly means all those mangaka are indirectly hinting the other's storytelling and other skills are non-existent.
/s
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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You can really feel the absence of Buranchi in these moments when you have like over 2 pages of "i have problems with BNHA so i will spin Kubo's praise about Horikoshi art"

Anyway, this has to be one of the longest "big" batches of manga ever, when was the last time we had 3 flop series easily crossing over 20 chapters together? not to mention Kamio Yui going for 40 chapters.
 

101nemesis

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How's S8 doing story wise btw?


You can really feel the absence of Buranchi in these moments when you have like over 2 pages of "i have problems with BNHA so i will spin Kubo's praise about Horikoshi art"
Agreed.
 

Ryuusei

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*Kubo.

Yes, Kubo is a good artist. But again he had NOTHING to say about story, themes, composition, style, characters. His favorite character is Kaminari and he says "As for me, I like Denki Kaminari. He plays a very amusing role in the story"
Draw your own interpretations from that stunning praise.



That's the thing, context matters here. Kubo didn't think about it, consider the various great aspects of BNHA, and say "the thing I like the very most [...]" This is what happened, stated by Horikoshi himself.

“I have no idea what my forte is.” You immediately replied, “Art, of course,”
Draw from that your own conclusions.




They're friends? LOL
Kubo: Yeah, I have no memory of chatting with you that night. [laughs]
So you can pinpoint every single moment you met every single person for the first time? Horikoshi could use that quirk in his story. Also, in the japanese original, Kubo uses "-kun" to address Horikoshi when Kubo is 9 years older than him and is his senior in the manga industry. Sounds trivial, but this matters when it comes to japanese.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

You can really feel the absence of Buranchi in these moments when you have like over 2 pages of "i have problems with BNHA so i will spin Kubo's praise about Horikoshi art"

Anyway, this has to be one of the longest "big" batches of manga ever, when was the last time we had 3 flop series easily crossing over 20 chapters together? not to mention Kamio Yui going for 40 chapters.
I was just thinking the same.

How's S8 doing story wise btw?




Agreed.
S8 has been going by pretty fast. There is a "tournament arc" right now, but the actual tournament has passed by in a flash. There's a lot more fighting dynamic and a few more characters were introduced. It's more interesting now and the art has kept the quality, but nothing that got me excited.
 

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Alright, so:

This is Urasawa and Eguchi talking about Otomo, which, you know, is a legendary mangaka and stuff. What do they mention? The art and pacing (visual pacing, that is) (https://mangabrog.wordpress.com/201...-about-manga-in-the-70s-and-80s-mostly-otomo/)

Urasawa: I think I’d probably seen Otomo’s work somewhere before then, but it was after he started drawing with that linework in “Fireball” that I started remembering him.
Eguchi: To be honest, I didn’t think much of the story in “Fireball”. It’s all in the art. The visual intensity.
Urasawa: That, plus the way “Fireball” just goes on plunking down scene after scene without narration. It was different from the conventional rhythm in Japanese manga and more like something lifted from Kubrick or Peckinpah — the stuff that we considered hip, right there in a manga.
Eguchi: Otomo really did draw manga totally unlike anyone before him. Where manga artists back in the day would draw action lines, he wouldn’t. Or, like, the way he’d draw things under shadows. There were a ton of discoveries for me in terms of how to draw things to make them look a certain way.

This is Kishimoto talking about Hiroaki Samura, who he idolizes. What does he mention? Art. (https://mangabrog.wordpress.com/201...with-fawning-fanboy-masashi-kishimoto-naruto/)

Kishimoto: Anyway, I was blown away in university in a way I hadn’t been since Akira. I mean, that artwork! It felt so far away from anything I was capable of. The arms and legs especially. Afternoon had this section where artists were given a page to themselves, and I still remember being just floored by this character sitting in a chair that you drew there.

Samura is also praising Kishimoto's drawing ability, but it must mean he didn't think of anything else, right?

Samura: You know, though: I only started reading Naruto midway through the series, but you struck me as someone with a really high basic drawing ability.

Taiyo Matsumoto talking to Daisuke Igarashi, and the focus is, again, on drawings: (https://mangabrog.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/24/)

Taiyo Matsumoto: I feel like you kind of came out of nowhere. I’ve been drawing manga for about 25 years, but you really blew me away. I first heard your name around the time Witches came out, and at first I thought you were still new to the scene. This guy is just incredible, I thought—it was so polished and everything. I was a little worried for myself.
Daisuke Igarashi: I found out about you when I was a student. Your work was being featured in a magazine or something, and seeing your manga cover designs I thought to myself, “This is really good, this is my kind of art”, but I figured I would probably be influenced by it if I read it, though. That fear kind of trumped everything else, so I avoided your work for a long time. (laugh) Nowadays I actually read your work just to steal from it, though.
Matsumoto: I find I can’t tell who you’ve been influenced by when I look at your work. With most manga artists you can see that, Oh, this artist’s a Katsuhiro Otomo fan, this one’s a Yumi Tada fan. With your art, though, I can’t tell; you leave me wondering, “What artist is this guy into?” You’re original, I guess is what I’m saying. Hmmm… it feels kind of like you’ve come to manga via painting.


I could go on, but anyway. Mangaka are focused on art and drawing ability, they are artists and they think of what they do differently than us. Kubo praising Horikoshi art is not a bad thing, just the opposite. It's what they tend to look for.
The point isn't that they're praising "art" and that means everything else is bad. You seriously lack reading comprehension. I was replying to posts that said most interviews are vague about this kind of praise so what Kubo said is par for the course. Your examples perfectly prove my point that most interviews between people that actually are skilled can go into a lot of detail on why their art is good, rather than just "Your art. Good." Hopefully the bolding aids your comprehension =^)

Oh no, what have you done. This clearly means all those mangaka are indirectly hinting the other's storytelling and other skills are non-existent.
/s
You also completely missed the point, please see above. Context matters.

Kubo uses "-kun" to address Horikoshi when Kubo is 9 years older than him... industry.
Obviously.

I have spun nothing.
 

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I wonder when the next poll's gonna come up and what it's gonna be about, I enjoyed seeing the discussions on those.
Buranchi has been gone for a while. Last time I saw him we were discussing what would be the next poll's theme.
If anyone has any sugestion btw, feel free to tell us!
 

supercow297

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You can really feel the absence of Buranchi in these moments when you have like over 2 pages of "i have problems with BNHA so i will spin Kubo's praise about Horikoshi art"
I have spun nothing. I stated my point and people said I was wrong so I am correcting any misunderstandings. I am happy to end the conversation we've been having whenever Buranchi says so.
 

OniluapL

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The point isn't that they're praising "art" and that means everything else is bad.. You serious lack reading comprehension. I was replying to posts that said most interviews are vague about this kind of praise so what Kubo said is par for the course. Your examples perfectly prove my point that most interviews between people that actually are skilled can go into a lot of detail on why their art is good, rather than just "Your art. Good." Hopefully the bolding aids your comprehension =^)


Obviously.

I have spun nothing.
First of all, sorry to you all for keeping this discussion alive, but:

Come on, dude. This is what you said:

Eh. I see manga as a form of storytelling primarily and usually in these types of interviews people get praise for story, themes, characters, etc. The fact that Kubo doesn't even MENTION any of these and says immediately "Art." is quite telling.
Alright I lied, I'm back. Did you read the whole interview? Kubo clearly said "If I were asked the same question (what is your strength) I'd reply the same thing even now." Doesn't mention theme, style, story, anything at all.

The discussion regarding vagueness came later, you started it by saying "he didn't praise story, theme or characters". And I showed examples of mangaka also not praising those aspects, of mangaka they absolutely idolize. Which means, it isn't really relevant that Kubo didn't praise those aspects.
 

supercow297

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I could go on, but anyway. Mangaka are focused on art and drawing ability, they are artists and they think of what they do differently than us. Kubo praising Horikoshi art is not a bad thing, just the opposite. It's what they tend to look for.
Also, "Mangaka are focused on art and drawing ability" as a blanket statement is one of the most disingenuous statements I've ever read. Obviously in a vacuum it's correct. But in the context of this conversation it's as if you're saying they have a comparatively weaker focus on story which is completely false. Many mangaka have stated that their profession is to tell stories, not "show off art and drawing ability". This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the medium of manga if you think the key focus is art and drawing ability. If anything that may be Horikoshi's main focus after Kubo's words of insight to him.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

First of all, sorry to you all for keeping this discussion alive, but:

Come on, dude. This is what you said:

The discussion regarding vagueness came later, you started it by saying "he didn't praise story, theme or characters". And I showed examples of mangaka also not praising those aspects, of mangaka they absolutely idolize. Which means, it isn't really relevant that Kubo didn't praise those aspects.
You're wrong. Someone mentioned that vague compliments in interviews are par for the course. In response, I listed detailed praise in similar interviews. Your examples only prove my point further. I fail to see the significance of the two quotes of me in your comment.
 

animeexpert

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You can really feel the absence of Buranchi in these moments when you have like over 2 pages of "i have problems with BNHA so i will spin Kubo's praise about Horikoshi art"

Anyway, this has to be one of the longest "big" batches of manga ever, when was the last time we had 3 flop series easily crossing over 20 chapters together? not to mention Kamio Yui going for 40 chapters.
2010, but that time was irrelevant for newbys cuz we had enough hits in the magazine
 

supercow297

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I don't know how you can miss the point so much, then apologize for extending the conversation, with points that make it seem like you've proven me completely wrong when you have no idea what you're even replying to.

Literally this is what happened. I'll spell it out to you so you can understand.

Today at 6:25 PM
Ctkk said:
Also I don't know what interviews have you read, but in the ones I've seen the praise is usually the same generic stuff there's in this one.

56 minutes ago
I said:
Also, on "all praise in these interviews is generic":
[Several examples of detailed praise]

36 minutes ago
OniluapL said:
[Multiple examples of detailed praise. Especially concerning art, which proves further what an anomaly Kubo saying Hori's art is just "good" is.]

What are you going to do now that you're proven wrong, say "sorry for extending the conversation guys, it's gone on long enough," and just ignore my points?

Also, at least this is better IMO than the 50 pages of S8. God that was horrible.
 
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OniluapL

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I don't know how you can miss the point so much, then apologize for extending the conversation, with points that make it seem like you've proven me completely wrong when you have no idea what you're even replying to.

Literally this is what happened. I'll spell it out to you so you can understand.

Today at 6:25 PM
Ctkk said:
Also I don't know what interviews have you read, but in the ones I've seen the praise is usually the same generic stuff there's in this one.

56 minutes ago
I said:
Also, on "all praise in these interviews is generic":
[Several examples of detailed praise]

36 minutes ago
OniluapL said:
[Multiple examples of detailed praise. Especially concerning art, which proves further what an anomaly Kubo saying Hori's art is just "good" is.]

What are you going to do now that you're proven wrong, say "sorry for extending the conversation guys, it's gone on long enough," and just ignore my points?

Also, at least this is better IMO than the 50 pages of S8. God that was horrible.
You said it afterwards, in response to another post. I am responding to the start of this conversation, in which your point was that Kubo didn't "mention theme, style, story, anything at all.". Therefore, I showed examples of mangaka not mentioning theme, style, story, anything at all.

Also, you don't really need to be rude. It's pretty frustrating.
 

supercow297

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You said it afterwards, in response to another post. I am responding to the start of this conversation, in which your point was that Kubo didn't "mention theme, style, story, anything at all.". Therefore, I showed examples of mangaka not mentioning theme, style, story, anything at all.

Also, you don't really need to be rude. It's pretty frustrating.
I wasn't rude to you. I said this. "I don't know how you can miss the point so much". I was expressing frustration that you missed the point. I did not call you any names or say anything unjustified.

Yes, Kubo didn't mention theme, style, story, anything at all. Also, someone said that most interviews give vague praise.

My examples showed interviews that touch on things besides art, as well as give detailed praise. Your examples showed interviews that praise art, and do it in a detailed fashion. We seem to both agree that Kubo's response to Hori was an interesting choice compared to the examples we've listed - touch only on art, and do so in a very shallow manner.

All I'm trying to say is, Kubo doesn't think much in particular of Boku no Hero given how limited in scope his commentary on it is, and Horikoshi is aware of his shortcomings. I don't think anyone can argue with these points.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


---

Also, on the subject of "rudeness":

"How about you f*ck off and crawl on back to MH Supercow297 and go back to sucking off Chainsawman like the little b*tch you are"
"It's obvious that it's you supercow297 you little b*tch *ss baby"
"Funny coming from the one that sucks off Chainsawman like there's no tomorrow, like the little b*tch you are"

Someone else:
"Christ who gives a flying fuck about supercow, he's a stupid *ss c*nt but this thread ain't about him just stop already"

Wow. Am I literally debating against pre-teens (here on MH)? Jesus Christ this was all pointless. Still better than S8-tier conversation though, and even that had less triggered people. I'm doing the censoring btw. It's not even me posting on the threads, like I said my IP range is blocked for some reason. LOL. But jeez one of us fellow MHers totally lost it. Nice, I got a good laugh out of this and am no longer stressed from work.

Okay Buranchi, I think this has gotten off-topic enough. I'm probably fully done.
 
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Koni

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Also, on the subject of "rudeness":

"How about you f*ck off and crawl on back to MH Supercow297 and go back to sucking off Chainsawman like the little b*tch you are"
"It's obvious that it's you supercow297 you little b*tch *ss baby"
"Funny coming from the one that sucks off Chainsawman like there's no tomorrow, like the little b*tch you are"


Wow. Am I literally debating against pre-teens (here on MH)? Jesus Christ this was all pointless. Still better than S8-tier conversation though, and even that had less triggered people. I'm doing the censoring btw. It's not even me posting on the threads, like I said my IP range is blocked for some reason. LOL. But jeez one of us fellow MHers totally lost it. Nice, I got a good laugh out of this and am no longer stressed from work.

Okay Buranchi, I think this has gotten off-topic enough. I'm probably fully done.
...I don’t think anybody on this forum has said anything like that in this conversation. At least, I hope not.
 

101nemesis

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All I'm trying to say is, Kubo doesn't think much in particular of Boku no Hero given how limited in scope his commentary on it is, and Horikoshi is aware of his shortcomings. I don't think anyone can argue with these points.
Lol, no. Pretty much EVERYONE can argue with you on those points. You're so sure that Kubo is indirectly hinting at how he doesn't think that highly of MHA when nothing of this interview says that even remotely. You're reaching so hard that it's kinda embarrassing at this point.
Kubo literally says that he was not up to date with WSJ series and when he did get back to reading WSJ, MHA is the series that got his attention.

Also, on the subject of "rudeness":

"How about you f*ck off and crawl on back to MH Supercow297 and go back to sucking off Chainsawman like the little b*tch you are"

Wow. Am I literally debating against pre-teens (here on MH)? Jesus Christ this was all pointless. Still better than S8-tier conversation though, and even that had less triggered people.

Wow.

"It's obvious that it's you supercow297 you little b*tch *ss baby"

I'm doing the censoring btw. It's not even me posting on the threads, like I said my IP range is blocked for some reason. LOL.

Okay Buranchi, I think this has gotten off-topic enough. I'm probably fully done.
I'm not even sure what all this is about. You really need to stop at this point.
 

supercow297

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...I don’t think anybody on this forum has said anything like that in this conversation. At least, I hope not.
Eh, it's someone from the 4chan thread who thought everyone hating on BNHA in that thread was me when I wasn't even able to post in that thread. It's pretty funny.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Lol, no. Pretty much EVERYONE can argue with you on those points. You're so sure that Kubo is indirectly hinting at how he doesn't think that highly of MHA when nothing of this interview says that even remotely. You're reaching so hard that it's kinda embarrassing at this point.
Kubo literally says that he was not up to date with WSJ series and when he did get back to reading WSJ, MHA is the series that got his attention.
Your argument:
"You're wrong that it's unarguable, we CAN argue with you!!"
"The interview doesn't say that he doesn't think highly of MHA!!"
"You're embarrassing! You're reaching!!"
Come on dude, you're usually so sensible that this coming from you is unbelievable.

And finally: "Kubo says MHA got his attention."

Okay, what about it got his attention?

The immediate next question in the interview is:
Please tell us what impressed you about the other person’s work.
Kubo: I’m consistently blown away by the amount of detail it has for a weekly serialization. In fact, I think the biggest difference between our manga is the intricacy of the backgrounds.

It stood out to him due to the detail and backgrounds. Which is fine, feel free to say Kubo has acknowledged Hori's genius at doing detail and backgrounds. I'm happy to concede that. It's similar to when another mangaka said Gintama stands out because its pages are mostly white (lol).
 

101nemesis

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Oh shit you're right. You'd think that more people in this thread would be talking about it...
Are people talking good things or bad things about it tho? That's the real question here.

Your argument:
"You're wrong that it's unarguable, we CAN argue with you!!"
"The interview doesn't say that he doesn't think highly of MHA!!"
"You're embarrassing! You're reaching!!"
Come on dude, you're usually so sensible that this coming from you is unbelievable.

And finally: "Kubo says MHA got his attention."

Okay, what about it got his attention?

The immediate next question is:
Please tell us what impressed you about the other person’s work.
Kubo: I’m consistently blown away by the amount of detail it has for a weekly serialization. In fact, I think the biggest difference between our manga is the intricacy of the backgrounds.

It stood out to him due to the detail and backgrounds. Which is fine, feel free to say Kubo has acknowledged Hori's genius at doing detail and backgrounds. I'm happy to concede that. It's similar to when another mangaka said Gintama stands out because its pages are mostly white (lol).
Eh. I'm done. I don't have the patience to deal with the level of conversation. I've already wasted my time with this.
It's embarrassing because you've taken a genuinely nice interview between two people who clearly respect each other and twisted it to fit your perspective and feelings about MHA. Literally no one agrees with you here because your bias against MHA (for whatever reason) is on display. Just makes your opinion on this matter impossible to even consider.
 
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