Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[pamuchi]

I'll repeat my comment regarding this topic.
It would be nice to have both male and female editor in the team since it would help to understand what they readership like/dislike on whatever theme, not only from a female/male perspective but also as a whole.

 

[Tamil]

Errr, aside of Nezuko, several characters have their respective development. But that's an opinion anyways. But what I think thores wanted to convey was that those 3 female leads are being praised because they go beyond from being fanservice or ship baits, if they have development and other stuff it's another story.

That's not consistent development though :/

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2019 ---

One of the most enduring criticism of Kimetsu is how Nezuko is barely a character when she is supposed to be the heroine of the story. I know many people are disappointed because her role is more like a battle pet and plot device most of the time. Even in the west, people only like her for the cuteness. I bet that most people don’t even care about her real personality. I wouldn’t take Kimetsu as an example for well-written female characters. They’re not used as walking fanservice, or confined to MC’s love interest role; but that is really a low bar to begin with.

Exactly she's pretty much a submissive lead MC and going to be used at this point to progress the plot with the final villain. I don't see the praise for Nezuko.

 

[Nemesis]

Particularly, I'm not against female editors on WSJ, but, I don't see a need for that in the way that I'm seeing out there, in the same way that I don't see a need for men to write on Shoujo and Josei magazines or for male editors to be on Shoujo and Josei magazines. Which already don't happen in those and I see no need for the 90% of female mangaka to get invaded by men, same on the editorial. But If it happens on WSJ, nice, if it doesn't, whatever. Both sides are good to me, I just disagree with this reaction.

But I think this discussion is just irrelevant as we aren't part of Shueisha's board of directors or in a high position to change it for WSJ, they'll have to change themselves if they see the need for it for the company. If it's already difficult for japanese to do that, imagine us on different countries. Maybe they'll change this year, in years or never. We'll see, but outside of that, it's just a thing that it's out of the control of everyone outside of the obvious.

One of the most enduring criticism of Kimetsu is how Nezuko is barely a character when she is supposed to be the heroine of the story. I know many people are disappointed because her role is more like a battle pet and plot device most of the time. Even in the west, people only like her for the cuteness. I bet that most people don’t even care about her real personality. I wouldn’t take Kimetsu as an example for well-written female characters. They’re not used as walking fanservice, or confined to MC’s love interest role; but that is really a low bar to begin with.

Exactly. Couldn't say better. Idk how the heck she's an example. lol

 

[Neala897]

The s8 editor didn't have any experience

Lol I clearly remember the moment from last year documentary 100kame where Isaka( another editor ) joked how "people with skills are disliked" and than go and said that" Tanaguchi is loved by everyone" then camera switch at Tanaguchi and shows he had zero serialization at that time. When I saw he was assigned to S8 I could not help but giggle

That's the biggest reach I've seen. I haven't read TPN but wow that praise for Kimetsu is a lie. Nezuko doesn't have character depth and consistent development. In fact, no character in Kimetsu is even consistently developed.

You are right of course. I just wonder how such thing could beat in yeary sales all mighty OP which is, as everyone knows, is not sexist in the slightest. Robin post-timeskip development was especially A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. Its not like it introduced 4 princess type characters in 4 out of 5 arcs in timeskip

 

[ruggia]

I mean, hell, they only just hired a non-Japanese artist for the first time with Dr. Stone (Boichi is from South Korea), so it's not unfair to say that WSJ is rather old fashioned and a little behind the times in certain respects.

Given the current relationship between Korea and Japan, it's actually quite amazing for Jump to be promoting Boichi as much as they've been recently.

Also a side note: while this is more to do with Boichi's personal history, I find it hilarious that Dr. Stone is still not licensed in Korea while others are.

 

[Tamil]

Lol I clearly remember the moment from last year documentary 100kame where Isaka( another editor ) joked how "people with skills are disliked" and than go and said that" Tanaguchi is loved by everyone" then camera switch at Tanaguchi and shows he had zero serialization at that time. When I saw he was assigned to S8 I could not help but giggle
You are right of course. I just wonder how such thing could beat in yeary sales all mighty OP which is, as everyone knows, is not sexist in the slightest. Robin post-timeskip development was especially A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. Its not like it introduced 4 princess type characters in 4 out of 5 arcs in timeskip

Oda's designs may be hyper sexualized but Nami may very well be the most useful female characters in the series. Literally the strawhats would die without her. One Piece's female characters get more hate than they deserve.

I would also use this time to say that Jigokuraku has an incredible female lead, Sagiri.

 

[Nemesis]

Oda's designs may be hyper sexualized but Nami may very well be the most useful female characters in the series. Literally the strawhats would die without her. One Piece's female characters get more hate than they deserve.

I would also use this time to say that Jigokuraku has an incredible female lead, Sagiri.

OP biggest problem in this is how Oda basically is drawing the same women when they aren't huge like Big Mom. And how basically he changed Robin and Nami body after the timeskip. lol

 

[TxxT]

Shoseki Manga Rankings 11/5

漫画・マンガ・コミック 売上ランキングBEST500

漫画・コミックの売上ランキングを日々更新！　詳細はISBNコード（13ケタの数字）でご確認願います。文庫はhttp://shoseki500.blog.shinobi.jp/に移転しました

shosekiranking.blog.fc2.com

1. Haikyu!!
20. Dr.STONE #13
22. We Never Learn #14
416. Tokyo Shinobi Squad #2
(Beast, DT, and Saiyuki are still out of the top 500)

Kimetsu no Yaiba

3. Kimetsu no Yaiba #8
4. Kimetsu no Yaiba #9
5. Kimetsu no Yaiba #7
6. Kimetsu no Yaiba #10
7. Kimetsu no Yaiba #11
8. Kimetsu no Yaiba #16
9. Kimetsu no Yaiba #15
10. Kimetsu no Yaiba #12
11. Kimetsu no Yaiba #14
12. Kimetsu no Yaiba #13
13. Kimetsu no Yaiba #17
14. Kimetsu no Yaiba #1
15. Kimetsu no Yaiba #2
16. Kimetsu no Yaiba #6
17. Kimetsu no Yaiba #5
18. Kimetsu no Yaiba #3
19. Kimetsu no Yaiba #4

Shonen Jump+

27. Boys Over Flowers Next Season #14
47. Haikyu-bu!! #1
65. Mato Seihei no Slave #3
96. Koi Goku no Toshi #1
105. Hidarikiki no Eren #10
145. Heart Gear #2
186. Hachurui-chan #1
254. Mizore-chan #4

Dr.STONE

20. Dr. STONE #13
89. Dr. STONE #12
126. Dr. STONE #10
136. Dr. STONE #8
143. Dr. STONE #11
144. Dr. STONE #9
154. Dr. STONE #7
208. Dr. STONE #6
235. Dr. STONE #3
251. Dr. STONE #1
264. Dr. STONE #4
271. Dr. STONE #5
273. Dr. STONE #2

 

[Nemesis]

Kimetsu no Yaiba backlog sales is really impressive. Even more when you remember that this manga was selling almost nothing on the first volumes, which most people around the world will never know how it was in the beginning haha

 

[ZersEditor]

Am I the only one who expects Yaiba to reach for a million copies FM by the next volume?

 

[savethecat]

I'm not sure if that could help with the female characters problem. I think it's mainly on authors and readers personal taste. Does the average Jump reader even care about having well written female characters, or appreciate them to begin with? Editors are charged with maximizing sales and popularity after all.

I can’t speak for Japan, but it’s almost universally agreed in any Jump related forum or chat that female cast in Jump series could use some work.

I’m in no way saying that Jump needs to shift their full focus on improving female writing. However, I do believe for series like Death Note, and Bakuman, having a female editor their to tell the creators “hey...... ummmm actual woman aren’t like this”, would only help the series.
Catering to females shouldn’t be a priority in Jump, but highly doubt there are many readers who actively DON’T want the female writing to improve in certain characters. I doubt there’s anyone saying “I really hope the females in MHA don’t get any screen time in this new arc”.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2019 ---

Wow, we are back at this again.
I guess with S8 being out of the picture, we need another topic to reach 1000 pages.
We already knew WSJ are asshole toward female editors. What are we gonna do about it? Boycott WSJ products?

What you rather talk about?
Pretty much everything talked about in here that isn’t regarding the new TOC are just topics that’s been recycled 30 times over

 

[ShenGao]

Am I the only one who expects Yaiba to reach for a million copies FW by the next volume?

Yes, because Shueisha won't give it a 1+ million initial print for volume 18. They will short print it again and just go back to their "urgent reprint" strategy.

 

[Ctkk]

Am I the only one who expects Yaiba to reach for a million copies FW by the next volume?

Yes, because only One Piece can cross 1 million in a week.

 

[Newkerzy]

Yes, because Shueisha won't give it a 1+ million initial print for volume 18. They will short print it again and just go back to their "urgent reprint" strategy.

Which...makes no sense at all?

 

[RafGL]

Which...makes no sense at all?

Why wouldn't it make sense if sales are still gonna be achieved if there's an audience waiting for it. It will just stall the growth for a bit, nothing more. It's better to underprint and get stocks completely sold out (so then they reprint) than overprint and have some unexpected loses.

 

[Maxy Barnard]

Which...makes no sense at all?

Scarcity value and avoiding the possibility of a bubble market around the title are pretty sensible marketing tactics

 

[Konja9]

I also don't think female editors would really change a lot about stuff like the way female characters are written, but of course they should hire them.


To begin with, any woman working in the shonen market would probably be very influenced by it in regard to preferenreces and style.

They'd probably be rookies too, so they'd get teamed up with more veteran authors that don't need a lot of input.

And most importantly, an editor's job is to make series popular and successful, not push some personal agenda.


Like, if Miura got a female editor, would she tell him to tone down the Ecchi? Probably not when that's the main selling point of the manga.

And if we're talking about having a female perspective, there's no way that perspective is gonna have more influence than when a woman is writing the story themselves (which they already do)

This is totally true.

The discussion between "female editors" and "good writing of female characters" isn't so related like some people think.

Regardless their gender, editors need the series to be popular. So, they will push what they need for the popularity of these stories.

The editors asking for "good writing of female writing" will depend if the story needs this to be popular.

Particularly, I'm not against female editors on WSJ, but, I don't see a need for that in the way that I'm seeing out there, in the same way that I don't see a need for men to write on Shoujo and Josei magazines or for male editors to be on Shoujo and Josei magazines. Which already don't happen in those and I see no need for the 90% of female mangaka to get invaded by men, same on the editorial. But If it happens on WSJ, nice, if it doesn't, whatever. Both sides are good to me, I just disagree with this reaction.

There are male editors in Shoujo and Josei Magazine. That isn't a rare thing.

 

[animeexpert]

I'm not sure if that could help with the female characters problem. I think it's mainly on authors and readers personal taste. Does the average Jump reader even care about having well written female characters, or appreciate them to begin with? Editors are charged with maximizing sales and popularity after all.

It's extacly for just being there. look at mha. The females heroes are poorly used, but it's one of the biggest new gen franchise in history cuz even the woman readers care more about the boys.

If I had to choose 1 manga that handles the best for female characters is Black clover, trying to be the best refined shonen and for that purpose, tabata does it good

 

[westabyss]

I think that female editors aren't really needed, i wouldn't be against it but i don't see why Jump would need female editors. The target is young boys and females might have an idea what young boys like but they never were one.
Also imagine you are an author bringing your Manga to a female editor and she tells you that it doesn't fit the target audience. Most would be rather pissed off and be like"how do you know".
But on the other hand, i don't think male editors are needed in Shoujo / Josei magazines either.

 

[NeeNeen]

It's extacly for just being there. look at mha. The females heroes are poorly used, but it's one of the biggest new gen franchise in history cuz even the woman readers care more about the boys.

Well, duh. Everyone cares more about the best developped characters, that's why development is important.

It's not that the female heroes are underutilised because people don't care about them. It's that people don't care about them because they are underutilised. Don't try and blame the female readers for this.