Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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westabyss

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It's extacly for just being there. look at mha. The females heroes are poorly used, but it's one of the biggest new gen franchise in history cuz even the woman readers care more about the boys.

If I had to choose 1 manga that handles the best for female characters is Black clover, trying to be the best refined shonen and for that purpose, tabata does it good
World Trigger has well written female characters. So has One Piece, if you look beyond Nami's design, she is probably the most independent female character in Jump. JJK has a really great heroine and the author isn't scared to portray her as 'ugly' (in the sense of her fighting style, because a lot of mangaka tend to show females still being beautiful and graceful while fighting)
 

animeexpert

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Well, duh. Everyone cares more about the best developped characters, that's why development is important.

It's not that the female heroes are underutilised because people don't care about them. It's that people don't care about them because they are underutilised. Don't try and blame the female readers for this.
????????. I don't blame female readers, they do it themself. I'm just saying for shonen readers. Having developed female characters isnt an must, as long they look good and have a couple of shining moments Than it's all goody
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

World Trigger has well written female characters. So has One Piece, if you look beyond Nami's design, she is probably the most independent female character in Jump. JJK has a really great heroine and the author isn't scared to portray her as 'ugly' (in the sense of her fighting style, because a lot of mangaka tend to show females still being beautiful and graceful while fighting)
I was extacly implying about new gen Jump manga, forgot to mention that. I also already mentioned in my early comment that WT also has the best female characters without relaying on sexualizing. You right about them, but if I had to choose 1 in the new gen, than its Black clover
 

westabyss

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Well, even then you have JJK, Chainsawman, Act Age..I really don't see a problem with the treatment of female characters in the current Jump roster. I don't think Tabata is really great at it either, its just Hori is really bad at it. If i look at the current line up, he is far the worst (yes, worse than Yuuna) mangaka in that aspect
 

NeeNeen

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Tokyo Shinobi Squad does have a great setting with a lot of potential!

Unfortunately, so did Metallica Metalluca, so did Golem Hearts, so did a lot of series that got axed in less than 30 chapters. The potential of a series isn't always what WSJ prioritizes when they decide what series to axe, especially over factors like popularity and sales... two areas in which TSS has not been doing too hot as of late.

I'm still holding out hope that TSS will stay around past the next batch, myself. I'm not sure how much longer it can realistically go past that though, seeing how Jump tends to work.
It's doing surprisingly well on M+ though.

If it gets axed now, it will be the highest-ranking completed series, above Food Wars and Sumo.
 

Newkerzy

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It's doing surprisingly well on M+ though.

If it gets axed now, it will be the highest-ranking completed series, above Food Wars and Sumo.
Except M+ rankings mean jack squat as we can see with Boruto.
 

Konja9

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Well, duh. Everyone cares more about the best developped characters, that's why development is important.

It's not that the female heroes are underutilised because people don't care about them. It's that people don't care about them because they are underutilised. Don't try and blame the female readers for this.
The point is not blame female readers.

The point is if male and female readers don't care enough about the underutilized female heroes, then WSJ editors don't have a reason to care either.


That said, there are mangas in WSJ with pretty good writing of female characters.
 

Ctkk

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Except M+ rankings mean jack squat as we can see with Boruto.
If something like TSS has even enough people that would bother to try an inflate its views, it might actually mean something XD.

Well, duh. Everyone cares more about the best developped characters, that's why development is important.

It's not that the female heroes are underutilised because people don't care about them. It's that people don't care about them because they are underutilised. Don't try and blame the female readers for this.
This is actually not true considering MHA's fanbase obsession with even the most secondary characters. Not sure if it's the same in the Japanese side, though (and it'd be also a point against what animexpert is saying)
 

tirakai

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Now that we're almost at 1000 pages, I'm curious what the most argued about topic is among them.

Also when are we getting a new topic? Once it hits 1000? Just before 2020 issue #1? or at the end of the year? It'll be our first WSJ reiwa-era topic.
 

James Rye

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Shoseki Manga Rankings 11/5

1. Haikyu!!
20. Dr.STONE #13
22. We Never Learn #14
416. Tokyo Shinobi Squad #2

(Beast, DT, and Saiyuki are still out of the top 500)

Kimetsu no Yaiba

3. Kimetsu no Yaiba #8
4. Kimetsu no Yaiba #9
5. Kimetsu no Yaiba #7
6. Kimetsu no Yaiba #10
7. Kimetsu no Yaiba #11
8. Kimetsu no Yaiba #16
9. Kimetsu no Yaiba #15
10. Kimetsu no Yaiba #12
11. Kimetsu no Yaiba #14
12. Kimetsu no Yaiba #13
13. Kimetsu no Yaiba #17
14. Kimetsu no Yaiba #1
15. Kimetsu no Yaiba #2
16. Kimetsu no Yaiba #6
17. Kimetsu no Yaiba #5
18. Kimetsu no Yaiba #3
19. Kimetsu no Yaiba #4

Shonen Jump+

27. Boys Over Flowers Next Season #14
47. Haikyu-bu!! #1
65. Mato Seihei no Slave #3
96. Koi Goku no Toshi #1
105. Hidarikiki no Eren #10
145. Heart Gear #2
186. Hachurui-chan #1
254. Mizore-chan #4

Dr.STONE

20. Dr. STONE #13
89. Dr. STONE #12
126. Dr. STONE #10
136. Dr. STONE #8
143. Dr. STONE #11
144. Dr. STONE #9
154. Dr. STONE #7
208. Dr. STONE #6
235. Dr. STONE #3
251. Dr. STONE #1
264. Dr. STONE #4
271. Dr. STONE #5
273. Dr. STONE #2
Did SxF Vol.1 reach 400k yet?
 

Kolbe

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Now that we're almost at 1000 pages, I'm curious what the most argued about topic is among them.

Also when are we getting a new topic? Once it hits 1000? Just before 2020 issue #1? or at the end of the year? It'll be our first WSJ reiwa-era topic.
By far Samurai 8 lol
We got almost 100 pages of discussion just in the week it came out
 

supercow297

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I’d like to think we all know better than to embed the tweets of a banned member, especially one who creepily continues to watch the thread.

Also oh dude I think there isa photo cover with at least one female mangaka on it. I should go hunting
He's banned? Huh.
Also female mangaka are far less likely to want publicity... They've been sent some messed up stuff.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

But Japan is still a very misogynistic country, we have evidence of that, for example look at this news "The Japanese medical university lowered female students' scores because it didn't want too many women doctors"

This seems like a one off case that shouldn't be used to shine negative light on the entire country as a whole.
I wouldn't call Japan misogynistic necessary, but they are indeed behind the times.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

But Japan is still a very misogynistic country, we have evidence of that, for example look at this news "The Japanese medical university lowered female students' scores because it didn't want too many women doctors"

This seems like a one off case that shouldn't be used to shine negative light on the entire country as a whole.
I wouldn't call Japan misogynistic necessary, but they are indeed behind the times.
Incredibly late, but Tokyo Shinobi Squad was incredible these last two chapters, also, En x Jin is totally canon, like, wow, also the heart Jin uses for his punctuation in speech bubbles, be still my heart.
...
 

supercow297

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That's the biggest reach I've seen. I haven't read TPN but wow that praise for Kimetsu is a lie. Nezuko doesn't have character depth and consistent development. In fact, no character in Kimetsu is even consistently developed.

I dont have much praise to say about Anya but I placed teh series on hold so I wont comment further.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


That's why it was amusing lol. Also just because I dont see the need for them that doesnt mean I'm against female editors.
No character in KnY has consistent development? Wow you triggered me in one sentence lol.
 

NeeNeen

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The point is if male and female readers don't care enough about the underutilized female heroes, then WSJ editors don't have a reason to care either.
But the reason readers don't care about underutilized female characters is not because they are female, it's because they are underutilised.

"We're only putting in underdevelopped female chracters -> people don't care about these underdevelopped characters -> well, I guess this proves that readers don't care about females, so there's no need to try and do better" - Such use of false causation and circular reasoning is the lamest and laziest way to justify existing patterns of discrimination. Sure, series can still be succesful without female characters, but don't say 'the readers don't care about the female characters' when you haven't given them a reason to care first.
 

supercow297

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One of the most enduring criticism of Kimetsu is how Nezuko is barely a character when she is supposed to be the heroine of the story. I know many people are disappointed because her role is more like a battle pet and plot device most of the time. Even in the west, people only like her for the cuteness. I bet that most people don’t even care about her real personality. I wouldn’t take Kimetsu as an example for well-written female characters. They’re not used as walking fanservice, or confined to MC’s love interest role; but that is really a low bar to begin with.
Kimetsu has good female characters. Even Nezuko is good, just because she can't talk doesn't mean she hasn't made important decisions throughout the series.
 
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supercow297

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This just comes off as extremely sexist. Unless you can prove that hiring women as editors will uniformly result in a worse product, there's no good reason to not at least try. At least once.

I mean, hell, they only just hired a non-Japanese artist for the first time with Dr. Stone (Boichi is from South Korea), so it's not unfair to say that WSJ is rather old fashioned and a little behind the times in certain respects.
How do you suggest we "try"? You're assuming that the current hiring standards in WSJ are unfair, which we have no proof of.
It's hilarious how some of you are sidestepping the issue and not giving any reasonable argument to why a female shouldn't be given a chance in WSJ as an editor.

And let's not pretend there's no such issue by saying "maybe they're not applying". Japanese corporate culture is no secret. I didn't want to use an offtopic example but even Toei has or had similar issues where their female staff were told straight to their face that women aren't allowed to direct shows because they're not suitable.
No one here said women should not be given a chance. What people said is that

1. We don't know if women are denied chances at WSJ
2. Ability should be considered more important than gender
3. Assuming women are treated fairly there is no need to force women into WSJ.
 

Maxy Barnard

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We made it!
So Meister is a neat little football series that ran like ten chapters, by Kamiya Kaji, an author who isn’t that notable outside of maybe the assistants chart. It’s got that whole “this player is small” vibe that I like in sports manga, and only really fell as flat as it did because it was part of this obvious push to make football work again in Jump (see every post-whistle football manga). Regardless I own both volumes and I know it’s been scanned, so check it out

SEE I SAID I’D DO IT
 

supercow297

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Oda's designs may be hyper sexualized but Nami may very well be the most useful female characters in the series. Literally the strawhats would die without her. One Piece's female characters get more hate than they deserve.

I would also use this time to say that Jigokuraku has an incredible female lead, Sagiri.
At this point it's literally just your taste. Kimetsu has well written characters in general and the women are no exception.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Shoseki Manga Rankings 11/5

1. Haikyu!!
20. Dr.STONE #13
22. We Never Learn #14
416. Tokyo Shinobi Squad #2

(Beast, DT, and Saiyuki are still out of the top 500)

Kimetsu no Yaiba

3. Kimetsu no Yaiba #8
4. Kimetsu no Yaiba #9
5. Kimetsu no Yaiba #7
6. Kimetsu no Yaiba #10
7. Kimetsu no Yaiba #11
8. Kimetsu no Yaiba #16
9. Kimetsu no Yaiba #15
10. Kimetsu no Yaiba #12
11. Kimetsu no Yaiba #14
12. Kimetsu no Yaiba #13
13. Kimetsu no Yaiba #17
14. Kimetsu no Yaiba #1
15. Kimetsu no Yaiba #2
16. Kimetsu no Yaiba #6
17. Kimetsu no Yaiba #5
18. Kimetsu no Yaiba #3
19. Kimetsu no Yaiba #4

Shonen Jump+

27. Boys Over Flowers Next Season #14
47. Haikyu-bu!! #1
65. Mato Seihei no Slave #3
96. Koi Goku no Toshi #1
105. Hidarikiki no Eren #10
145. Heart Gear #2
186. Hachurui-chan #1
254. Mizore-chan #4

Dr.STONE

20. Dr. STONE #13
89. Dr. STONE #12
126. Dr. STONE #10
136. Dr. STONE #8
143. Dr. STONE #11
144. Dr. STONE #9
154. Dr. STONE #7
208. Dr. STONE #6
235. Dr. STONE #3
251. Dr. STONE #1
264. Dr. STONE #4
271. Dr. STONE #5
273. Dr. STONE #2
MHA is just gone from the top 500? Cuz of the anime break?
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Shoseki Manga Rankings 11/5

1. Haikyu!!
20. Dr.STONE #13
22. We Never Learn #14
416. Tokyo Shinobi Squad #2

(Beast, DT, and Saiyuki are still out of the top 500)

Kimetsu no Yaiba

3. Kimetsu no Yaiba #8
4. Kimetsu no Yaiba #9
5. Kimetsu no Yaiba #7
6. Kimetsu no Yaiba #10
7. Kimetsu no Yaiba #11
8. Kimetsu no Yaiba #16
9. Kimetsu no Yaiba #15
10. Kimetsu no Yaiba #12
11. Kimetsu no Yaiba #14
12. Kimetsu no Yaiba #13
13. Kimetsu no Yaiba #17
14. Kimetsu no Yaiba #1
15. Kimetsu no Yaiba #2
16. Kimetsu no Yaiba #6
17. Kimetsu no Yaiba #5
18. Kimetsu no Yaiba #3
19. Kimetsu no Yaiba #4

Shonen Jump+

27. Boys Over Flowers Next Season #14
47. Haikyu-bu!! #1
65. Mato Seihei no Slave #3
96. Koi Goku no Toshi #1
105. Hidarikiki no Eren #10
145. Heart Gear #2
186. Hachurui-chan #1
254. Mizore-chan #4

Dr.STONE

20. Dr. STONE #13
89. Dr. STONE #12
126. Dr. STONE #10
136. Dr. STONE #8
143. Dr. STONE #11
144. Dr. STONE #9
154. Dr. STONE #7
208. Dr. STONE #6
235. Dr. STONE #3
251. Dr. STONE #1
264. Dr. STONE #4
271. Dr. STONE #5
273. Dr. STONE #2
MHA is just gone from the top 500? Cuz of the anime break?
petition for page 1000 to be allowed shitposting (up to certain point) and low effort posts (but not spam)
Please no.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Well, duh. Everyone cares more about the best developped characters, that's why development is important.

It's not that the female heroes are underutilised because people don't care about them. It's that people don't care about them because they are underutilised. Don't try and blame the female readers for this.
Uh... Is that why Hori spent an arc on rank 30 Shiggy and VA jobbers and left high ranking Ochaco and Momo to do nothing?
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Well, even then you have JJK, Chainsawman, Act Age..I really don't see a problem with the treatment of female characters in the current Jump roster. I don't think Tabata is really great at it either, its just Hori is really bad at it. If i look at the current line up, he is far the worst (yes, worse than Yuuna) mangaka in that aspect
Holy crap are you new here? You're pretty cool
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Well, even then you have JJK, Chainsawman, Act Age..I really don't see a problem with the treatment of female characters in the current Jump roster. I don't think Tabata is really great at it either, its just Hori is really bad at it. If i look at the current line up, he is far the worst (yes, worse than Yuuna) mangaka in that aspect
Holy crap are you new here? You're pretty cool


But the reason readers don't care about underutilized female characters is not because they are female, it's because they are underutilised.

"We're only putting in underdevelopped female chracters -> people don't care about these underdevelopped characters -> well, I guess this proves that readers don't care about females, so there's no need to try and do better" - Such use of false causation and circular reasoning is the lamest and laziest way to justify existing patterns of discrimination. Sure, series can still be succesful without female characters, but don't say 'the readers don't care about the female characters' when you haven't given them a reason to care first.
So now you can read mangakas' minds?
 

Konja9

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But the reason readers don't care about underutilized female characters is not because they are female, it's because they are underutilised.

"We're only putting in underdevelopped female chracters -> people don't care about these underdevelopped characters -> well, I guess this proves that readers don't care about females, so there's no need to try and do better" - Such use of false causation and circular reasoning is the lamest and laziest way to justify existing patterns of discrimination. Sure, series can still be succesful without female characters, but don't say 'the readers don't care about the female characters' when you haven't given them a reason to care first.
The thing isn't whether readers care about the underdeveloped female characters or not, it is that readers don't care about the "lack of developed female characters".


This is the vicious circle:

"We're only putting in underdevelopped female chracters -> people don't care we're only putting in underdevelopped female characters -> this proves that readers don't care enough about females characters, so there's no need to try and do better"
 
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