Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

Buranchi

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Everyone, please vote for your three favorite WSJ series for this (and every) week HERE.

Check back every Sunday for new polls!
 
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Weekly Shonen Jump Issue #2:
Agravity Boys (Cover & LCP)
Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba
Haikyu!!
My Hero Academia (CP)
Black Clover
ZIPMAN!! (CP)
ACT-AGE
Dr. STONE
We Never Learn (CP)
Chainsaw Man
Jujutsu Kaisen
The Promised Neverland
Yuuna and the Haunted Hot Springs
Mitama Security: Spirit Busters
Mission: Yozakura Family
Samurai 8: The Tale of Hachimaru
Tokyo Shinobi Squad (Last Chapter)
Dr. STONE reboot: Byakuya (Spin-Off)
Weekly Shonen Jump Issue #3:
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Agravity Boys (25p), Dr. STONE (Important Announcement), Kiraboshi no Meryl (One-Shot by Kawaguchi Yuki)
Extra Pages: Deku & Bakugo: RISING (2 Consecutive One-Shots By Akiyama Yoko - Issue 3 & 4*5 (15p each), ZIPMAN!! (23p), Medal w/ Purple Ribbon Award: Kochikame Short One-Shot (By Akimoto Osamu)


 
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Rain Spectre

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Guys, Twin Star Exorcist is Jump SQ. Let's not go off-topic.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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If the "extremely retro artstyle" was a problem, it would be from the start, Toriko is a 2008 manga, it was already super retro at the time but it's actually part of the charm of the series, i would say that Toei ending the anime at the time definitely hurted the manga a lot, it had all the problems but still a anime that was doing quite good at Sundays and keeping Toriko relevant for kids and overall readers.

I don't even think he watched Black Clover now. Every time I check a few clips, if it isn't some major fight there is seriously something going wrong in the scenes for example the contestant off model faces. Everything just looks jarring all the time. The music is terrible too and that really doesn't help.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I was talking more about the beginning (first 50/60 episodes) where it was truly terrible, by now the adaptation is what i would call "average" with some good or great sequences but it's really stepped up from the beginning, still could be so much better.
 

Buranchi

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If the "extremely retro artstyle" was a problem, it would be from the start, Toriko is a 2008 manga, it was already super retro at the time but it's actually part of the charm of the series, i would say that Toei ending the anime at the time definitely hurted the manga a lot, it had all the problems but still a anime that was doing quite good at Sundays and keeping Toriko relevant for kids and overall readers.
This is a good point, but also, the main thing that stood out about Toriko was the world building.

It had, by far, the best world building in a series I've read, second only to One Piece. Although, I found the world in Toriko to be more interesting than One Piece's world.

Another thing I'd like to add, though. Toriko is not a series that is an especially great marathon read. It's a series that requires process time, and speculation, week to week.

Marathoning through it quickly will confuse new readers, since they'll likely not pick up on the subtle foreshadowing Shimabu sprinkled in. Or, for instance, the part where Teppei's head was in the food bowl.

That moment loses all impact when you can just instantly go to the next chapter. There's a lot of moments like that in Toriko, where you NEED to wait, to speculate, to absorb what you're reading.

So, when a person quickly marathons the series and tries to weigh in on the strengths and weaknesses of the series, it comes off as disingenuous, since they didn't experience the series the intended way. And I think that's a problem with a lot of other series and not just Toriko.

So many series benefit from week to week processing, and theorizing from other fans. Some series you can blast through quickly and lose nothing for it, but a lot of them aren't like that.
 

DreamcastDazia

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This is a good point, but also, the main thing that stood out about Toriko was the world building.

It had, by far, the best world building in a series I've read, second only to One Piece. Although, I found the world in Toriko to be more interesting than One Piece's world.

Another thing I'd like to add, though. Toriko is not a series that is an especially great marathon read. It's a series that requires process time, and speculation, week to week.

Marathoning through it quickly will confuse new readers, since they'll likely not pick up on the subtle foreshadowing Shimabu sprinkled in. Or, for instance, the part where Teppei's head was in the food bowl.

That moment loses all impact when you can just instantly go to the next chapter. There's a lot of moments like that in Toriko, where you NEED to wait, to speculate, to absorb what you're reading.

So, when a person quickly marathons the series and tries to weigh in on the strengths and weaknesses of the series, it comes off as disingenuous, since they didn't experience the series the intended way. And I think that's a problem with a lot of other series and not just Toriko.

So many series benefit from week to week processing, and theorizing from other fans. Some series you can blast through quickly and lose nothing for it, but a lot of them aren't like that.
Well actually I think Toriko is a great binge read. There are just too many people that read through manga too quickly without trying to process what they are looking at properly like you said it that doesn't mean you can't marathon it either. I personally always read things slowly and try to take it in so maybe that just me. Also what you said applies also to black clover. Which is why it's really frustrating when people talk about it in a bad manner cause you just know they didn't read it properly. :(
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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This is a good point, but also, the main thing that stood out about Toriko was the world building.

It had, by far, the best world building in a series I've read, second only to One Piece. Although, I found the world in Toriko to be more interesting than One Piece's world.

Another thing I'd like to add, though. Toriko is not a series that is an especially great marathon read. It's a series that requires process time, and speculation, week to week.

Marathoning through it quickly will confuse new readers, since they'll likely not pick up on the subtle foreshadowing Shimabu sprinkled in. Or, for instance, the part where Teppei's head was in the food bowl.

That moment loses all impact when you can just instantly go to the next chapter. There's a lot of moments like that in Toriko, where you NEED to wait, to speculate, to absorb what you're reading.

So, when a person quickly marathons the series and tries to weigh in on the strengths and weaknesses of the series, it comes off as disingenuous, since they didn't experience the series the intended way. And I think that's a problem with a lot of other series and not just Toriko.

So many series benefit from week to week processing, and theorizing from other fans. Some series you can blast through quickly and lose nothing for it, but a lot of them aren't like that.
This is a good point because seriously, for a good time Toriko was absolutely the BEST manga on Shonen Jump to read every week, Shimabukuro was a master of building the "weekly hype", the fights worked so much on a weekly basis, i remember even people that weren't read the manga would get constantly exposed to the fantastic double pages and bloody scenes, he was able to pump like consecutive chapters of "mind blowing" fight chapters.
 

DreamcastDazia

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This is a good point because seriously, for a good time Toriko was absolutely the BEST manga on Shonen Jump to read every week, Shimabukuro was a master of building the "weekly hype", the fights worked so much on a weekly basis, i remember even people that weren't read the manga would get constantly exposed to the fantastic double pages and bloody scenes, he was able to pump like consecutive chapters of "mind blowing" fight chapters.
You've all got me wanting to talk about Toriko now :( But I guess we shouldn't anymore right?
 

Buranchi

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You've all got me wanting to talk about Toriko now :( But I guess we shouldn't anymore right?
In the context of potential sales, it's fine. Plus, while it's debatable that the series was cancelled (I believe it was), it definitely ended prematurely. Kinda like Bleach, although that was more because of Kubo's declining health.

Thankfully, it seems Kubo has had time to fully recuperate, and actually misses making manga.

Having said that, I do still hope Shimabu tries to serialize Build King. I don't know how the current Jump audience would take to it, though.

Could a series about architecture battles do well?
 

TyVip

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This is a good point, but also, the main thing that stood out about Toriko was the world building.

It had, by far, the best world building in a series I've read, second only to One Piece. Although, I found the world in Toriko to be more interesting than One Piece's world.

Another thing I'd like to add, though. Toriko is not a series that is an especially great marathon read. It's a series that requires process time, and speculation, week to week.

Marathoning through it quickly will confuse new readers, since they'll likely not pick up on the subtle foreshadowing Shimabu sprinkled in. Or, for instance, the part where Teppei's head was in the food bowl.

That moment loses all impact when you can just instantly go to the next chapter. There's a lot of moments like that in Toriko, where you NEED to wait, to speculate, to absorb what you're reading.

So, when a person quickly marathons the series and tries to weigh in on the strengths and weaknesses of the series, it comes off as disingenuous, since they didn't experience the series the intended way. And I think that's a problem with a lot of other series and not just Toriko.

So many series benefit from week to week processing, and theorizing from other fans. Some series you can blast through quickly and lose nothing for it, but a lot of them aren't like that.
Nah i binged it in 4 days. It's mad HYPU. I would argue that if I had read Toriko week to week, by its final year it would give me the Bleach effect. We would never know since I marathoned it, and it's good when I marathoned it, so let's keep it that way. But It has been a struggle to get my friends to read it compare to other series that I manage to make him read (Food War, Dr Stone, Neverland, Bakuman)
 

DreamcastDazia

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In the context of potential sales, it's fine. Plus, while it's debatable that the series was cancelled (I believe it was), it definitely ended prematurely. Kinda like Bleach, although that was more because of Kubo's declining health.

Thankfully, it seems Kubo has had time to fully recuperate, and actually misses making manga.

Having said that, I do still hope Shimabu tries to serialize Build King. I don't know how the current Jump audience would take to it, though.

Could a series about architecture battles do well?
I can't say honestly. I'll eat up anything Shimabu makes. But I mean, even is a manga on architecture doesn't sound that interesting. He could make in interesting. He made a manga about food Godlike. He can do something like that again.


Also even if toriko was cancelled I still think the ending was good. And it felt like a good spot to end at...ish
 

101nemesis

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Toriko definitely is a valid counter to this, though. Not to say Toriko didn't get a big boost, but I really do feel a well-done adaptation in the same vein as Ufotable, would have made it go way higher.

Hell, I'd go as far as to say that if Toriko had an exceptional adaptation, it'd likely still be running.
I agree but that's solely because Toriko's anime was marketed for kids. Hence it was censored immensely. It was the wrong demographic to aim for.
 

Rain Spectre

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This is a good point, but also, the main thing that stood out about Toriko was the world building.

It had, by far, the best world building in a series I've read, second only to One Piece. Although, I found the world in Toriko to be more interesting than One Piece's world.

Another thing I'd like to add, though. Toriko is not a series that is an especially great marathon read. It's a series that requires process time, and speculation, week to week.

Marathoning through it quickly will confuse new readers, since they'll likely not pick up on the subtle foreshadowing Shimabu sprinkled in. Or, for instance, the part where Teppei's head was in the food bowl.

That moment loses all impact when you can just instantly go to the next chapter. There's a lot of moments like that in Toriko, where you NEED to wait, to speculate, to absorb what you're reading.

So, when a person quickly marathons the series and tries to weigh in on the strengths and weaknesses of the series, it comes off as disingenuous, since they didn't experience the series the intended way. And I think that's a problem with a lot of other series and not just Toriko.

So many series benefit from week to week processing, and theorizing from other fans. Some series you can blast through quickly and lose nothing for it, but a lot of them aren't like that.
While I can't entirely disagree on this point (I mean, it's modeled on me), it's important to remember that volumes are more and more the most vital part of a manga, not the magazine. If you can't keep a consistent story over 200 pages or so, you're not exactly playing to the current market. This is something series like MHA, Kimetsu, Act-Age, Jujutsu and so on favor heavily.
 

DreamcastDazia

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While I can't entirely disagree on this point (I mean, it's modeled on me), it's important to remember that volumes are more and more the most vital part of a manga, not the magazine. If you can't keep a consistent story over 200 pages or so, you're not exactly playing to the current market. This is something series like MHA, Kimetsu, Act-Age, Jujutsu and so on favor heavily.
Wouldn't go there with MHA my friend. The story progression has been all over the place since the overhaul arc. Aren't the sales dropping.


Actually your good with this kind of stuff. You don't mind proving us with the MHA volumes sales do you? 🙂 Also whens volumes 25 coming out or is it out already?
 

Rain Spectre

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Wouldn't go there with MHA my friend. The story progression has been all over the place since the overhaul arc. Aren't the sales dropping.


Actually your good with this kind of stuff. You don't mind proving us with the MHA volumes sales do you? 🙂 Also whens volumes 25 coming out or is it out already?
That's literally not what I meant? Story being "all over the place", beyond being completely subjective, doesn't deter the point that the series is clearly written for volumes and not weekly chapters like Toriko (and a lot of Big 3 Era series) were.
 

Ryuusei

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Wouldn't go there with MHA my friend. The story progression has been all over the place since the overhaul arc. Aren't the sales dropping.


Actually your good with this kind of stuff. You don't mind proving us with the MHA volumes sales do you? 🙂 Also whens volumes 25 coming out or is it out already?
Not really. In 2018, volumes 17, 18, 19 and 20 sold together 3.077.216, while in 2019 volumes 21, 22, 23 and 24 sold together 2.926.606. That's a drop of only 5% percent. What happened in 2019 was that MHA's backlog didn't sell as much as it did back in 2018, when the backlog represented more than 50% of the series's yearly sales, while in 2019 the backlog represented only 42%. Volume 25 is out today and that will give us a better idea if sales are actually dropping or if the series has reached some sort of plateau.
 
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Konja9

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While I can't entirely disagree on this point (I mean, it's modeled on me), it's important to remember that volumes are more and more the most vital part of a manga, not the magazine. If you can't keep a consistent story over 200 pages or so, you're not exactly playing to the current market. This is something series like MHA, Kimetsu, Act-Age, Jujutsu and so on favor heavily.
This is true. Many people buy exclusively volumes, so they will likely read the chapters pretty fast.

In itself, there isn't a "properly" way to read a manga.
 

Rain Spectre

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This is true. Many people buy exclusively volumes, so they will likely read the chapters pretty fast.

In itself, there isn't a "properly" way to read a manga.
I know I've referenced this quote a bunch, but even Nakano has noted this.

 

Buranchi

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You can write both for the weekly crowd and the volume crowd.

It's not mutually exclusive. Generally, if you're having cliffhangers every week, those same cliffhangers will be at the end of the volume as well, further incentivizing both crowds to continue reading.

You just need to make sure that the major, plot-changing cliffhangers happen at the end of every seventh chapter, or however many chapters they do in volumes nowadays.
 

supercow297

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Damn I can't WAIT for BNHA sales today.
Interesting how the anime is going so strong but the backlog is below even Stones and to a lesser extent, JJK with just the announcement.

Is it possible we're seeing a transition to the "BC sales model" where the volume sales are declining but everyone is watching the anime so the series overall stays popular?
 
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