Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[Blink22]

For anyone interested, Moriking first ranking in 3rd place is the best first ranking since Hinomaru Zumou in 1st place on 2013, and yeah, i just checked each series since that, i didn't counted Naruto Gaiden in 2015 that got 2nd place because it was a 10 chapters short series.

Well it is a sumo manga after all.

Spoiler

 

[Ryuusei]

Now I wonder what happened in Agravity's newest chapter that got to it to place higher than Mitama and Yozakura.

Chris being luckier than his peers?

Last week's chapter has no influence on this week's placement.

 

[MysticCatto]

Moriking the King of newbies

 

[savethecat]

I think there should be a reminder that the TOC placements shouldn’t be taken too literally.

Act-Age being at the bottom most likely means nothing. And doesn’t mean that “this is a reflection of readers not liking recent chapters”. Highly likely that it’s just there because the EiC just felt like putting it there. And it being lower than Yozakura and Agravity Boys should be a reflection of that.

We Never Learn is in no danger what so ever. We all know it’s going to end exactly as the mangaka wanted regardless. It’s placement means literally nothing, and again, could be very likely that it’s just there just cause. Doesn’t necessarily mean that readers hate recent chapters, despite the recent chapters getting seemingly mixed reactions, in America at the very least. But I’m still pretty sure that’s not why.

Morking is the only meaningful and important placement this week

 

[Azure Warrior]

That is correct, ratings do not matter. But consistent low placements to some extent do.

Look at Bleach and other series that were going downhill in their final arcs.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

I think there should be a reminder that the TOC placements shouldn’t be taken too literally.

Act-Age being at the bottom most likely means nothing. And doesn’t mean that “this is a reflection of readers not liking recent chapters”. Highly likely that it’s just there because the EiC just felt like putting it there. And it being lower than Yozakura and Agravity Boys should be a reflection of that.

We Never Learn is in no danger what so ever. We all know it’s going to end exactly as the mangaka wanted regardless. It’s placement means literally nothing, and again, could be very likely that it’s just there just cause. Doesn’t necessarily mean that readers hate recent chapters, despite the recent chapters getting seemingly mixed reactions, in America at the very least. But I’m still pretty sure that’s not why.

Morking is the only meaningful and important placement this week

Or it means something and we just don't know, Act-Age has been placed really low for a good number of weeks already and WNL is last place, which is something that we don't see happening with any other veteran besides Yuuna for a good time, hardly doubt that WNL was just placed there for no reason at all and it coincides a lot with the fact Rizu arc dragged a lot, also the color page happens to be exactly after the abysmal position.

I don't think anyone is saying "both series are in danger and etc", but no one here really knows if means or not something but i've been following SJ for time enough to think that at least WNL position is indeed a reflection of readers not caring about Rizu's arc.

 

[Koni]

Missed the TOC talk (take two):
-Ayakashi Triangle looks good. The color pages and character designs make me more excited. I was waiting for this and I’m not disappointed at all. It looks like there’s gonna be ecchi elements, which I’m okay with. Just want my romance/action mix. Yabuki delivers with art, now let’s see the writing.
-Promised Neverland color page looks really good. Gonna miss this gorgeous art.
-HeroAca’s on break next week? Damn.
-Moriking’s Top 5? Was NOT expecting that. Can it hold a good position now, that is the question.
-This TOC is really wacky. There’s no longer a Yuuna line, and I’m guessing Jump wants all attention on Ayakashi, since it can realistically replace both of them.

I’m really sorry for whatever mod read the original version.

 

[lgrmjauffre]

Or it means something and we just don't know, Act-Age has been placed really low for a good number of weeks already and WNL is last place, which is something that we don't see happening with any other veteran besides Yuuna for a good time, hardly doubt that WNL was just placed there for no reason at all and it coincides a lot with the fact Rizu arc dragged a lot, also the color page happens to be exactly after the abysmal position.

I don't think anyone is saying "both series are in danger and etc", but no one here really knows if means or not something but i've been following SJ for time enough to think that at least WNL position is indeed a reflection of readers not caring about Rizu's arc.

You really think that people hate Rizu so much that a series with such a defined fanbase as We Never Learn placed below Guardian of the Witch, a clearly dead in the water series, Mitama, which enough people clearly don't like enough to buy(unfortunately), and Agravity Boys, which has frequented the bottom 5 for a good portion of its run based on reader votes alone?

Come on, now.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

You really think that people hate Rizu so much that a series with such a defined fanbase as We Never Learn placed below Guardian of the Witch, a clearly dead in the water series, Mitama, which enough people clearly don't like enough to buy(unfortunately), and Agravity Boys, which has frequented the bottom 5 for a good portion of its run based on reader votes alone?

Come on, now.

Yes i think.

 

[lgrmjauffre]

Yes i think.

Fair enough. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[Azure Warrior]

Hot take: The tanned girl is the only good one.

 

[savethecat]

That is correct, ratings do not matter. But consistent low placements to some extent do.

Look at Bleach and other series that were going downhill in their final arcs.

While Bleach did decline in popularity, regardless of its TOC placement Bleach was still one of the most popular series in the magazine even even the final arc. It’s only an assumption that the TOC is heavily influenced by reader poles. While we know it definitely influences the TOC to an extent, it’s not always a pure reflection of a series popularly or reception.
Bleach was definitely still in probably the Top 5 most popular series in the magazine even when it was at the bottom.
And we all know now that Bleach ended abruptly due to Tite Kubo’s health, not an axe.

I’m pretty sure if Tite Kubo still wanted to continue, it would still be running in the magazine now if that’s how long he wanted to go.

Or it means something and we just don't know, Act-Age has been placed really low for a good number of weeks already and WNL is last place, which is something that we don't see happening with any other veteran besides Yuuna for a good time, hardly doubt that WNL was just placed there for no reason at all and it coincides a lot with the fact Rizu arc dragged a lot, also the color page happens to be exactly after the abysmal position.

I don't think anyone is saying "both series are in danger and etc", but no one here really knows if means or not something but i've been following SJ for time enough to think that at least WNL position is indeed a reflection of readers not caring about Rizu's arc.

A much more logical assumption is that the Magazine seems to be getting a lot of newer series that are doing moderately well, or incredibly well.

Undead Unluck, and Mashle seem to be 2 definite hits as of now. Despite mediocre sales, Mitama seems to be well received. Agravity Boys and Yokazura isn’t turning any heads. But they’re doing decent sales wise despite being at the bottom consistently. Certainly better than the typical new series we see.
And now Morkings first placement was great.
Guardian of the Witch seems to be the only new series doing bad

The magazine seems to be having a larger influx of “doing just fine” series atm.
It makes sense to leave a series that’s already on the way out and has it ending set in stone at the bottom in order to bring more attention to the newer stuff.
And while Act Age is at the bottom, and we don’t know why, it’s unlikely that a series that sells considerable well, and growing, is fairly acclaimed, and even just received a color page and a stage play announcement, is at the bottom because reception has suddenly gone down

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Fair enough. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion.

Much bigger series than We Never Learn like Souma and Bleach had their worst positions in the ToC exactly when they were at their lowest quality and the overall audience clearly not satisfied, they were much more "popular" than the other series in the bottom and still got constantly placed there, it happens, people doesn't really need to hate Rizu but simply not care enough about her arc to not waste their three options, this last position and even the one last week in the bottom are too well sync with the overall opinion about Rizu's arc being boring and etc.

 

[El Jacco]

So, because I got interest in the amount of Covers, CPs and LCPs the series has had over the years. I decided to do a google sheet that supously was only going from the 90s to now, but decided to go all in and do all of Jump. (Atleast the series that defined the magazine and some relevant series that lasted for a bit). And its updated until the new ToC issue of today.


Here is the link to see it much better, just delete the line between the t's in https:

Spoiler: Link

ht-tps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qVcqWdEWfoL8J1utRLtd0nEBtJOHX5pqb7bJOS2Q8ws/edit?usp=sharing

It starts on 1969 because on the magazine first year, it was mostly real life images covers.
In the covers part, because in the beginnings of the magazine it was more usual for 3-4 series to shared the cover, I decided to count as a "+1" for the series that appeared and did the same with the rest of the years. So examples like this:

Spoiler: Example

are counted as a +1 for Yuuna and +1 for WNL.

Sequels are considered if they run on Jump. Example: Bobobo and Shin Bobobo Covers, CPs and LCPs are in the same row.
If any of you guys think I left one that shoul be included, tell me please to add it. And sorry if I couldnt design more nicely the sheet, Im not good with it tbh.

Thanks to @yadayada and @revo68 for helping me with the source links to be able to find the CPs and LCPs parts, specially for the beginnings to 90s series.
Sources used to do this:

Spoiler: Sources pages

Mainly to see the covers: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/weekly-shonen-jump/4050-43519/
To see the ToCs from 2000 to 2016: http://pharaodopazoplus.blogspot.com/
To verified the LCPs and CPs from the beginnings of the magazine to today: https://www.jajanken.net/years

Dont asked me how much time I spent on this.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

A much more logical assumption is that the Magazine seems to be getting a lot of newer series that are doing moderately well, or incredibly well.

Undead Unluck, and Mashle seem to be 2 definite hits as of now. Despite mediocre sales, Mitama seems to be well received. Agravity Boys and Yokazura isn’t turning any heads. But they’re doing decent sales wise despite being at the bottom consistently. Certainly better than the typical new series we see.
And now Morkings first placement was great.
Guardian of the Witch seems to be the only new series doing bad

The magazine seems to be having a larger influx of “doing just fine” series atm.
It makes sense to leave a series that’s already on the way out and has it ending set in stone at the bottom in order to bring more attention to the newer stuff.
And while Act Age is at the bottom, and we don’t know why, it’s unlikely that a series that sells considerable well, and growing, is fairly acclaimed, and even just received a color page and a stage play announcement, is at the bottom because reception has suddenly gone down

Nothing of this really explains why WNL suddenly dropped to the last place, i don't even remember if the manga was ever there, Act-Age is clearly not a case of "bad reception" but WNL has been clearly dropping in sales for the last volumes, and opinions about Rizu's arc are really not positive, isn't anything hard to just imagine readers not caring too much about part of it.

 

[savethecat]

Nothing of this really explains why WNL suddenly dropped to the last place, i don't even remember if the manga was ever there, Act-Age is clearly not a case of "bad reception" but WNL has been clearly dropping in sales for the last volumes, and opinions about Rizu's arc are really not positive, isn't anything hard to just imagine readers not caring too much about part of it.

As someone said above. Even if the reception dropped. If your take the TOC at face value, and view it as a literal reflection of who’s getting better reception, it’s highly unlikely that We Never Learn, a series with an established fanbase, and a mainstay in the magazine is faring worse than a series the struggles to sell 5000 copies.

I don’t deny that WNL has declined in sales and reception. But I believe it being at the bottom is more so a reflection of it being dead, but in the opposite sense that Guardian is dead. Reader polls and placements are borderline pointless for a series that has a guaranteed end in a few months. It’s just my guess, I personally believe the TOC and EiC has no regard for a establish big seller, or grower, even if bottom placements are consistent.

 

[lgrmjauffre]

Much bigger series than We Never Learn like Souma and Bleach had their worst positions in the ToC exactly when they were at their lowest quality and the overall audience clearly not satisfied, they were much more "popular" than the other series in the bottom and still got constantly placed there, it happens, people doesn't really need to hate Rizu but simply not care enough about her arc to not waste their three options, this last position and even the one last week in the bottom are too well sync with the overall opinion about Rizu's arc being boring and etc.

Okay, let me put it another way. 3 year veteran that's confirmed to be a handful of months away from ending suddenly starts making its way towards the bottom.

All of these new series with no real reason to be above it are above it. One would assume they're trying to get more exposure for the new series that need growth, instead of the almost ended series that needs no more new readership.

As to your other point, where are you getting this "overall opinion" that the Rizu arc is boring? Because unless you live in Japan and know the majority of people who read the manga weekly in Jump, that's a pretty non-existent argument.

 

[Koni]

Nothing of this really explains why WNL suddenly dropped to the last place, i don't even remember if the manga was ever there, Act-Age is clearly not a case of "bad reception" but WNL has been clearly dropping in sales for the last volumes, and opinions about Rizu's arc are really not positive, isn't anything hard to just imagine readers not caring too much about part of it.

The only reference point I can think of for Japanese reception of the WNL girls are the results last popularity poll. It's almost a year old, at this point, but I think the results still stand today ("Sensei won very convincingly" is a massive understatement). In that poll, Rizu placed 4th out of the main 5 and 4th overall. At the same time, though, the series is clearly in it's endgame, so it would be hard to attract new readers. Like I said earlier, the magazine could want all attention to focus on Ayakashi Triangle as Jump's new ecchi romcom by a veteran mangaka, so they put the other romcom they have near the back of the magazine so as to not disturb it.

Honestly, we'll have to see how well WNL places for the next couple weeks. If it's low for the next 7 weeks but then starts jumping up on the 8th, it's much more likely the arc played a role.

 

[Nemesis]

What the hell happened with Bokuben

Nothing, which is even clear with the CP. lol As with all romcom, they all go to bottom when they are about to end. Happened with most if not all from what I remember. Now with Yunna ending, WNL probably will be there a lot with how it worked in the past.

Act-Age also is there a lot for some reason on this year.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

As someone said above. Even if the reception dropped. If your take the TOC at face value, and view it as a literal reflection of who’s getting better reception, it’s highly unlikely that We Never Learn, a series with an established fanbase, and a mainstay in the magazine is faring worse than a series the struggles to sell 5000 copies.

I don’t deny that WNL has declined in sales and reception. But I believe it being at the bottom is more so a reflection of it being dead, but in the opposite sense that Guardian is dead. Reader polls and placements are borderline pointless for a series that has a guaranteed end in a few months. It’s just my guess, I personally believe the TOC and EiC has no regard for a establish big seller, or grower, even if bottom placements are consistent.

Okay, let me put it another way. 3 year veteran that's confirmed to be a handful of months away from ending suddenly starts making its way towards the bottom.

All of these new series with no real reason to be above it are above it. One would assume they're trying to get more exposure for the new series that need growth, instead of the almost ended series that needs no more new readership.

As to your other point, where are you getting this "overall opinion" that the Rizu arc is boring? Because unless you live in Japan and know the majority of people who read the manga weekly in Jump, that's a pretty non-existent argument.

I think both of you are not really understanding that i'm not saying We Never Learn is literally receiving "less votes" than a manga like Guardian of the Witch, but that the last place, something that you don't see happening with any other veteran that isn't really dropping in sales or overall popularity, its a reflection of the current state of the manga, a series that is already with a "final" announced, sales dropping and Rizu route not being really good, we can all try to be "vague" about things, but like i said, i've been following the toc for enough time to notice the pattern with long running series dropping to the back of the magazine at the same time sales and quality drops too.