Moderator Notice: Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.
These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei
Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi
GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
KnY and TPN were probably too new to really have the same impact of DB and Slam Dunk (also quick reminder that KnY was selling less than Black Clover until the second half of last year). Only HQ was truly a pillar. But were there really that many people reading WSJ because of it? I guess the spokon audience might truly be at risk since there's nothing filling that niche now.
Just like he did, in the first chapter and then couple chapters later with each time a new WSJ volume to keep going. Just have Teppei tell Aino the truth and they would work together as Aino has yet to get the ten years of drawing experience and polishing her author skills to create what her future self created. It stops Teppei from being a lonely self-pitying mess which hardly anyone liked at least from what I have seen in most forums and it gives Aino a more prominent role in the series as she is both Teppei's partner in crime as well as his best excuse to continue the plagiarism as she herself says it is okay. Especially after the secret of what happens to her future self gets out. Have the two work together as a duo for the first couple/first dozen chapters and focus on their relationship, Aino learning from Teppei art-wise and him learning story/character-wise from Aino's genius both the future and the present one so that as a reader you can already anticipate that Aino and Teppei will be future rivals once WK has ended. Have the Editor be a bigger part, the whole "this is perfect I got nothing to add" got boring real quick and I liked it when we had Hattori give his experience in the manga business to his young mangakas to give Input to their series. Add some assistants later on with a funny misunderstanding of Teppei and Aino being all secretive and her being over at his apartment with the timemachine to have them think they are dating and we got some shenanigans at work and abroad from it.
There is a lot of stuff that could have been done to make this more interesting and attention grabbing.
Also WSJ got years of series so they should know what is and what is not badly received by their audience, so they can anticipate what the likes and dislikes are with each chapter. Also the first 5-6 chapters are written in advance so it's not like the reader's Input had a huge deal until the 7th chapter. Instead of going on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Teppei's guilt, Aino needed to be introduced much earlier, either straight away accusing him of stealing her work or even go as far as breaking into his home to find "evidence" and so on and have them pair up to clean up this mess as them telling the world they got a timemachine would mean WK would never be able to be finished and both love the series too much to let that happen. A Editor with a real character needed to be implemented not as a cheerleader but as a real critic giving real critics based on their surveys of the past and current trends and what not. All of that could have been the choice of either the creator or his editor, readers had none of that, they just judged first chapter well and all chapters afterwards as crap, because you can have one maybe two guilt-tripping chapters but once you get past three and four it just sucks.
So yes, most of the blame for TPG failing does lay on its creator and his supporting Editor as the readers can only judge what they are given and if said judgement causes them to rush the series and turn it into a hot mess then that is not helping the series either.
I find it more selfish to blame the readers who are innocent of the creation of the series.
But again, your opinion, my opinion. Let's agree to disagree. Not like arguing here gonna save this series anyway.
Do they? OP selling less, no new real hits and a lot of famous series ending? Yes, Mashie, undead and ayakashi are probably here to stay but I doubt they can become pillar. They need at least one absolute hit. Not just manga that explode and then end but manga that here to stay
For the longest time KnY wasn't a Pillar either and look what it became after its anime/near its end.
All you can do to find a hit that stays with the masses interest is keep bringing out hits and read the signs as in surveys and sales and online interest and what not.
Just like he did, in the first chapter and then couple chapters later with each time a new WSJ volume to keep going. Just have Teppei tell Aino the truth and they would work together as Aino has yet to get the ten years of drawing experience and polishing her author skills to create what her future self created. It stops Teppei from being a lonely self-pitying mess which hardly anyone liked at least from what I have seen in most forums and it gives Aino a more prominent role in the series as she is both Teppei's partner in crime as well as his best excuse to continue the plagiarism as she herself says it is okay. Especially after the secret of what happens to her future self gets out. Have the two work together as a duo for the first couple/first dozen chapters and focus on their relationship, Aino learning from Teppei art-wise and him learning story/character-wise from Aino's genius both the future and the present one so that as a reader you can already anticipate that Aino and Teppei will be future rivals once WK has ended. Have the Editor be a bigger part, the whole "this is perfect I got nothing to add" got boring real quick and I liked it when we had Hattori give his experience in the manga business to his young mangakas to give Input to their series. Add some assistants later on with a funny misunderstanding of Teppei and Aino being all secretive and her being over at his apartment with the timemachine to have them think they are dating and we got some shenanigans at work and abroad from it.
There is a lot of stuff that could have been done to make this more interesting and attention grabbing.
Also WSJ got years of series so they should know what is and what is not badly received by their audience, so they can anticipate what the likes and dislikes are with each chapter. Also the first 5-6 chapters are written in advance so it's not like the reader's Input had a huge deal until the 7th chapter. Instead of going on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Teppei's guilt, Aino needed to be introduced much earlier, either straight away accusing him of stealing her work or even go as far as breaking into his home to find "evidence" and so on and have them pair up to clean up this mess as them telling the world they got a timemachine would mean WK would never be able to be finished and both love the series too much to let that happen. A Editor with a real character needed to be implemented not as a cheerleader but as a real critic giving real critics based on their surveys of the past and current trends and what not. All of that could have been the choice of either the creator or his editor, readers had none of that, they just judged first chapter well and all chapters afterwards as crap, because you can have one maybe two guilt-tripping chapters but once you get past three and four it just sucks.
So yes, most of the blame for TPG failing does lay on its creator and his supporting Editor as the readers can only judge what they are given and if said judgement causes them to rush the series and turn it into a hot mess then that is not helping the series either.
I find it more selfish to blame the readers who are innocent of the creation of the series.
But again, your opinion, my opinion. Let's agree to disagree. Not like arguing here gonna save this series anyway.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
For the longest time KnY wasn't a Pillar either and look what it became after its anime/near its end.
All you can do to find a hit that stays with the masses interest is keep bringing out hits and read the signs as in surveys and sales and online interest and what not.
It is selfish to detonate a manga just for the theme.
The author must be free to speak whatever he wants without being blamed. I never said I should save the manga in any way, you're just making things up that I didn't say.
If the author or the editors were to blame, the manga shouldn't even have been published in the first place.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
And even if he followed everything you're suggesting there is no guarantee that the manga would do better.
so there is no way to blame the author so heavily.
It is selfish to detonate a manga just for the theme.
The author must be free to speak whatever he wants without being blamed. I never said I should save the manga in any way, you're just making things up that I didn't say.
If the author or the editors were to blame, the manga shouldn't even have been published in the first place.
You are the one making things up. I never said this got dunked soley for its theme, you are the only one who keep harking on that. It got dunked for the presentation of its theme (like how the genderbender in Hungry Marie failed but might succeed in AT. Same theme, different presentation), of its missed characterization, its poor cast, its sidelining of the second most important character, it failing to generate real sympathy for the MC, for focusing so much on the timemachine and plagiarism on its own that the other stuff like relationship building and mangaka/artist/author techniques which could have grabbed other readers interest who don't mind the theme so much but didn't found anything else interesting enough for them to keep reading.
And yes, while all that might not have been enough to save this series or get it a large enough followership/good TOC ratings, it certainly didn't helped it was all missed.
And yes, thats why I said Mangaka and Editor as the WSJ Editors are the ones who decide which series to give a go and which not and how strongly they interfere with a mangaka's work and how much they let them run fictional amok. But TPG itself said that they only get to see the One-shot/first chapter and decide based on that to release it or not and the first TPG chapter was good and its first ranking was also not bad. So far so good. Now would have WSJ done the same if they had the entire first volume up front or would they be like "you sure doing 4 chapters of self-pity is a good idea? Isn't this "oh woe is me, please pity poor little me" a bit too much in the face? Parts of our readership might not like it.". Some Mangakas like Ashihara worked for years on their project and wrote entire BOOKS before showing the first chapter to WSJ who then have a much better idea where this series will go and if there is or is no potential for it which is why they didn't axe WT first twenty chapters and instead said "cut the entire school arc, it ain't getting enough attention, bring in Jin earlier and accelerate Yuuma entering Border, there is the interesting stuff that will gain attention" or why they didn't stop WT after Ashihara's horrible health for two years and instead said "go monthly, we don't want this series to end too early" and neither did the Japanese readership given the sales increased after the two year hiatus.
But what came for TPG after the first chapter was what really hurt it and could have needed some guidance from the Series Editor to move things along more smoothly in the first couple chapters instead of repeating the same stuff over and over again when you could have introduced more interesting and attention grabbing stuff.
Like you can see it in this forum/thread.
First chapter? Hardly anyone criticized it, much less for its theme. There were concerns about it but no boycott calls or whatever.
But second and from on there chapter? More and more people losing interest, getting annoyed with Teppei and wondering where this is supposed to go. This is why a good first chapter doesn't guarantee you a long life. Saiyuki had the same problem with an interesting first chapter and then just snoozing off in the house for 6 chapters in a row before something interesting happened.
Anyone can tell you that that's not the way to success and an Editor should have realized and tell it to the mangaka who should have adjusted to it or even expected what readers might like and not like based on the surveys/Editor talks. TPG is simply going down the same Path as Saiyuki. Good idea, bad execution. It happens all the time. No need to demonize the Japanese for not liking it.
And just so you know, that is the end of my part of the discussion. Feel free to write what you want, I won't reply to it anymore.
You are the one making things up. I never said this got dunked soley for its theme, you are the only one who keep harking on that. It got dunked for the presentation of its theme (like how the genderbender in Hungry Marie failed but might succeed in AT. Same theme, different presentation), of its missed characterization, its poor cast, its sidelining of the second most important character, it failing to generate real sympathy for the MC, for focusing so much on the timemachine and plagiarism on its own that the other stuff like relationship building and mangaka/artist/author techniques which could have grabbed other readers interest who don't mind the theme so much but didn't found anything else interesting enough for them to keep reading.
And yes, while all that might not have been enough to save this series or get it a large enough followership/good TOC ratings, it certainly didn't helped it was all missed.
And yes, thats why I said Mangaka and Editor as the WSJ Editors are the ones who decide which series to give a go and which not and how strongly they interfere with a mangaka's work and how much they let them run fictional amok. But TPG itself said that they only get to see the One-shot/first chapter and decide based on that to release it or not and the first TPG chapter was good and its first ranking was also not bad. So far so good. Now would have WSJ done the same if they had the entire first volume up front or would they be like "you sure doing 4 chapters of self-pity is a good idea? Isn't this "oh woe is me, please pity poor little me" a bit too much in the face? Parts of our readership might not like it.". Some Mangakas like Ashihara worked for years on their project and wrote entire BOOKS before showing the first chapter to WSJ who then have a much better idea where this series will go and if there is or is no potential for it which is why they didn't axe WT first twenty chapters and instead said "cut the entire school arc, it ain't getting enough attention, bring in Jin earlier and accelerate Yuuma entering Border, there is the interesting stuff that will gain attention" or why they didn't stop WT after Ashihara's horrible health for two years and instead said "go monthly, we don't want this series to end too early" and neither did the Japanese readership given the sales increased after the two year hiatus.
But what came for TPG after the first chapter was what really hurt it and could have needed some guidance from the Series Editor to move things along more smoothly in the first couple chapters instead of repeating the same stuff over and over again when you could have introduced more interesting and attention grabbing stuff.
Like you can see it in this forum/thread.
First chapter? Hardly anyone criticized it, much less for its theme. There were concerns about it but no boycott calls or whatever.
But second and from on there chapter? More and more people losing interest, getting annoyed with Teppei and wondering where this is supposed to go. This is why a good first chapter doesn't guarantee you a long life. Saiyuki had the same problem with an interesting first chapter and then just snoozing off in the house for 6 chapters in a row before something interesting happened.
Anyone can tell you that that's not the way to success and an Editor should have realized and tell it to the mangaka who should have adjusted to it or even expected what readers might like and not like based on the surveys/Editor talks. TPG is simply going down the same Path as Saiyuki. Good idea, bad execution. It happens all the time. No need to demonize the Japanese for not liking it.
And just so you know, that is the end of my part of the discussion. Feel free to write what you want, I won't reply to it anymore.
Nobody is demonizing anyone here. And since you are agreeing that TPG is following the same path as saiyuki then it would not even be necessary to do this whole monologue to blame the editors and authors.
And the execution was not bad, since many criticized the topic without reading the story.
And thanks for not responding, I don't want to waste my time on this boring conversation.
You are the one making things up. I never said this got dunked soley for its theme, you are the only one who keep harking on that. It got dunked for the presentation of its theme (like how the genderbender in Hungry Marie failed but might succeed in AT. Same theme, different presentation), of its missed characterization, its poor cast, its sidelining of the second most important character, it failing to generate real sympathy for the MC, for focusing so much on the timemachine and plagiarism on its own that the other stuff like relationship building and mangaka/artist/author techniques which could have grabbed other readers interest who don't mind the theme so much but didn't found anything else interesting enough for them to keep reading.
And yes, while all that might not have been enough to save this series or get it a large enough followership/good TOC ratings, it certainly didn't helped it was all missed.
And yes, thats why I said Mangaka and Editor as the WSJ Editors are the ones who decide which series to give a go and which not and how strongly they interfere with a mangaka's work and how much they let them run fictional amok. But TPG itself said that they only get to see the One-shot/first chapter and decide based on that to release it or not and the first TPG chapter was good and its first ranking was also not bad. So far so good. Now would have WSJ done the same if they had the entire first volume up front or would they be like "you sure doing 4 chapters of self-pity is a good idea? Isn't this "oh woe is me, please pity poor little me" a bit too much in the face? Parts of our readership might not like it.". Some Mangakas like Ashihara worked for years on their project and wrote entire BOOKS before showing the first chapter to WSJ who then have a much better idea where this series will go and if there is or is no potential for it which is why they didn't axe WT first twenty chapters and instead said "cut the entire school arc, it ain't getting enough attention, bring in Jin earlier and accelerate Yuuma entering Border, there is the interesting stuff that will gain attention" or why they didn't stop WT after Ashihara's horrible health for two years and instead said "go monthly, we don't want this series to end too early" and neither did the Japanese readership given the sales increased after the two year hiatus.
But what came for TPG after the first chapter was what really hurt it and could have needed some guidance from the Series Editor to move things along more smoothly in the first couple chapters instead of repeating the same stuff over and over again when you could have introduced more interesting and attention grabbing stuff.
Like you can see it in this forum/thread.
First chapter? Hardly anyone criticized it, much less for its theme. There were concerns about it but no boycott calls or whatever.
But second and from on there chapter? More and more people losing interest, getting annoyed with Teppei and wondering where this is supposed to go. This is why a good first chapter doesn't guarantee you a long life. Saiyuki had the same problem with an interesting first chapter and then just snoozing off in the house for 6 chapters in a row before something interesting happened.
Anyone can tell you that that's not the way to success and an Editor should have realized and tell it to the mangaka who should have adjusted to it or even expected what readers might like and not like based on the surveys/Editor talks. TPG is simply going down the same Path as Saiyuki. Good idea, bad execution. It happens all the time. No need to demonize the Japanese for not liking it.
And just so you know, that is the end of my part of the discussion. Feel free to write what you want, I won't reply to it anymore.
Honestly, I have problems with the "oh woe is me, please pity poor little me" in the first chapter of TPG.
The author tried to make me feel sorry for the MC's life, but it failed with me. The emotional manipulation felt too forced.
That said, including an jerk editor who should be "defeated" in the first chapter was a good idea, since it makes you support the protagonist for a while. Maybe the "jerk editor" was defeated too soon.
Honestly, I have problems with the "oh woe is me, please pity poor little me" in the first chapter of TPG.
The author tried to make me feel sorry for the MC's life, but it failed with me. The emotional manipulation felt too forced.
That said, including an jerk editor who should be "defeated" in the first chapter was a good idea, since it makes you support the protagonist for a while. Maybe the "jerk editor" was defeated too soon.
The point is that all that you are buying with respect to the story will only be shown after 30 or 40 chapters. But there was no time, and I don't see it as the fault of the author and the publisher, after all, many good manga were canceled out of nowhere.
i wish haikyuu was that genre defining. In two or so years itll be the next "only ones who talk about it are us fanfic writers and shippers" status like kurobas became.
i wish haikyuu was that genre defining. In two or so years itll be the next "only ones who talk about it are us fanfic writers and shippers" status like kurobas became.
I think that's probably because Slam Dunk is more realistic and because people often refer to it as the best sports manga of all time. A lot of people including me prefer realistic sports manga over sports manga with unrealistic powers. I haven't read Kuroko and have only seen the first season of the anime. But iirc, from what I've heard, a lot of people criticized that it became more about the powers and less about basketball the longer it went on. Haikyuu doesn't have that, so I think it'll be fine. Most readers seem to be very satisfied with the way it ended and that's probably what counts.
KnY and TPN were probably too new to really have the same impact of DB and Slam Dunk (also quick reminder that KnY was selling less than Black Clover until the second half of last year). Only HQ was truly a pillar. But were there really that many people reading WSJ because of it? I guess the spokon audience might truly be at risk since there's nothing filling that niche now.
Agreed that The Promised Neverland and Demon Slayer were a little too short to have that sort of lasting impact in readership numbers. Without Haikyuu!! there is a definite genre gap in the magazine that needs filled asap.
It's interesting through as sales-wise it's the opposite. Demon Slayer's is currently at 80+ million - twice that of Haikyuu!!'s, with half the amount of volumes. Once it passes 100 million (likely this year) with its last two volumes out it'll be the best-selling manga of all time with the least amount of volumes (tied with Astro Boys, currently at 100 million). It's a good thing for the magazine that the anime for Demon Slayer will be around for another few years at least. After the Mugen Train movie the manga will be 33% adapted, so at least two more 2-cour seasons is likely. That'll keep sales going throughout its airing. Heck, by this time next year I expect it to be outselling Slam Dunk (126 million).
It's currently quite hard to imagine the magazine 5 years from now. It's very possible that it's three oldest series (One Piece, My Hero Academia, and Black Clover) will have ended or at least be at their climax and Demon Slayer will be fully adapted and the sales will even out by then. The next three (Dr Stone, Act-Age, Jujutsu Kaisen) might all be over too, possibly except JJK. Nevermind just the problem of One Piece ending, the entire magazine could be completely different to as it is now.
i wish haikyuu was that genre defining. In two or so years itll be the next "only ones who talk about it are us fanfic writers and shippers" status like kurobas became.
Other than Prince of Tennis, Haikyuu!! is still the magazine's biggest sports franchise manga since Slam Dunk so I wouldn't count it out yet. And it's still got 2.5 seasons of content to adapt with lots of anime-only fans who will be talking about it for a few years still. It's well surpassed Kuroko no Basket's reputation by this point.
It's currently quite hard to imagine the magazine 5 years from now. It's very possible that it's three oldest series (One Piece, My Hero Academia, and Black Clover) will have ended or at least be at their climax and Demon Slayer will be fully adapted and the sales will even out by then. The next three (Dr Stone, Act-Age, Jujutsu Kaisen) might all be over too, possibly except JJK. Nevermind just the problem of One Piece ending, the entire magazine could be completely different to as it is now.
Dunno if it has been commented here already, but Ao no Hako oneshot is having a very big acceptance by Japan Twitter and a lot of support by other mangaka. I hope it gets serialized next year. This could be both an original romcom and spokon.
Dunno if it has been commented here already, but Ao no Hako oneshot is having a very big acceptance by Japan Twitter and a lot of support by other mangaka. I hope it gets serialized next year. This could be both an original romcom and spokon.
Dunno if it has been commented here already, but Ao no Hako oneshot is having a very big acceptance by Japan Twitter and a lot of support by other mangaka. I hope it gets serialized next year. This could be both an original romcom and spokon.
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