Moriking maybe?
Boruto as an anime does directly promote Naruto but it is completely a different story and holds its own without relying heavily on the things that Naruto, as a series, was famous for. Last years TV Tokyo ranking had Naruto in 1st and Boruto in 2nd, which suggests that there is still a large majority of audience that support Naruto as a series but as Boruto a series progressed massively throughout the year of 2019-2020 and as a result it began to attract more audience, new and old. So I agree slightly but I strongly think that Boruto as a series promotes the new generation more then the old generation.
More like Moriking definitely.
I'm not here to argue if Boruto is good enough to get popular on its own. I'm merely stating that the popularity it experiences is largely because of Naruto's name.
Boruto wouldn't exist without Naruto since is a sequel of Naruto, so is impossible to think something like this, because is a impossible situation, and isn't what he was saying lol
Right, I forgot about that. Nothing's gonna die through Issue #2, I believe. Some series will probably take absences.
My original argument was if Boruto is relevant, Naruto is relevant because its the same franchise and literal continuation. In short - Boruto exists to milk that franchise. Same way as Star Wars sequel trilogy exists to milk the Star Wars Skywalker saga name.
It's until #52 that nothing will die based on manga+ IDs, #2 was predicted based on #51 and #52 being missing in the schedule earlier.
Firstly, as I’ve said before I do agree that Naruto does have a slight influence on Boruto but it is inconsiderate to completely say that “Boruto is still in naruto’s shadow and is nothing without Naruto”! Just because something is a sequel doesn’t automatically make it inferior to the original. Secondly, you refer to the settings, world building and characters in Naruto which have not been touched once in Naruto, the only character that I can think of is ryuki who turned out to be a follower of Hidan. But apart from that every other character that has been reintroduced into Boruto from the old generation has been introduced keeping in mind that s/he are in Boruto. So for example, Jugo in the ‘Jugo arc’ fought team 7 and Konohamaru and was stopped by them and not Naruto or sasuke, having the new generation directly building on top of old generations previous character development from Naruto is what makes it stand out.
Imagine CSM suddenly ending a couple chapters later with no real warning and everyone here going "WTF just happened?". XD
Bleach was hardly on its way out though - it was the third best selling in the magazine at the time and just hit its peak, and had an ongoing anime with very strong sales (especially high for a long-running adaptation). And can the 6th best-selling WSJ manga (soon to be 7th after Demon Slayer) ever really 'fade away', even today? It'll always be known as one of the best-selling titles of all time.
Agreed, Bleach's legacy does speak for itself, but I do think there are still incorrect assumptions about Bleach and its popularity.
Anyways, Bleach being 4th place here despite the anime ending 8 years ago? Nice. Will be interesting to see how the TYBW adaptation performs.
My point.
This is kinda runing in circles because no one is really trying to say that Boruto would have the same popularity, reach and etc without Naruto since is impossible, any sequel/spinoff makes success and exist because the original work existed first, what NotMe123 is basically talking is about plot elements and stuff while you're talking about the popularity side, you two are problably misinterpreting each one.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Now this is making more sense, but i expected Roboco to hold better
I can also see why Toriko was given more promotion, though the whole reason it was brought up is because it's not exactly an example of it being successful. In hindsight it didn't exactly play out like was intended. The original post also said Bleach was fading away (even though it's got an anime returning next year and still has had a fanbase during the quiet years), that JJBA and HxH have gained in popularity (which is down to their anime in the last decade), and that MHA/JJK are at Bleach level (they're not). I mainly wanted to point out that Bleach isn't so easily comparable with other recent hits and that few could maintain reach/maintain its highs.
No need to play the victim card or nitpick, all I meant is Bleach was past it's prime and Toriko looked more promising than Bleach at that time. You then said JJK would have to pull a Yaiba, but 4M sales is not Bleach's peak. Bleach peaked at 700k-1M range, but was not a million seller, the 100k that Mha's peak(830k) lacked can arguably be made up for in international fame.Bleach was hardly on its way out though - it was the third best selling in the magazine at the time and just hit its peak, and had an ongoing anime with very strong sales (especially high for a long-running adaptation). And can the 6th best-selling WSJ manga (soon to be 7th after Demon Slayer) ever really 'fade away', even today? It'll always be known as one of the best-selling titles of all time.
What's the opposite of rose-tinted glasses, because it often feels like people wear them when remembering Bleach? It might have been the punching bag of the Big 3 and a lot of people don't like it but I think people are quick to forget just how popular Bleach actually was, and how even at its lowest (per volume) it was outselling every currently running series except One Piece and My Hero Academia. At its highest, only One Piece (and technically Hunter x Hunter).
The only series to come out after 2001 to peak higher than Bleach ever did in a single year are:
Demon Slayer - Not even comparable
Kuroko no Basket - 8,761,081 (2013)
Haikyuu!! - 8,283,709 (2014)
Assassination Classroom - 8,605,861 (2015)
The Promised Neverland - 7,454,745 (2019)
The thing is, three of these ended at around 20 volumes, one at 30 volumes. Bleach had a steady increase in sales between 20~30 and didn't peak until volumes 30~40. Even if other series had a year or two higher few lasted long enough to match how long Bleach stayed relevant, so you can't compare their longevity.
In terms of series that ran long enough to become ongoing franchises, you have Haikyuu!! and Gintama, but on a volume-by-volume basis even then not they weren't at Bleach's level. Haikyuu!! does come close at its peak however and is probably the closest thing comparable to Bleach due to its yearly peak, volume sales, and it being 40+ volumes.
I think when people forget how long Bleach maintained its popularity it's easy to then say series like My Hero Academia are its level, but they're not. MHA has great internationally but has already passed its peak. JJK, unless it gets a Demon Slayer-level boost, won't be Bleach's level either.
And just to point out the obvious, Bleach still has 90,000,000 volumes in Japan and 120,000,000 worldwide, which even when averaged over 74 volumes is higher per volume than almost every series mentioned above.
As for Hunter x Hunter and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure finding more popularity in the last decade, that's largely down to their anime adaptations. Of course, Hunter x Hunter anime fans are now stuck in limbo like us manga readers, but the JJBA is still (presumably) ongoing and has an active fanbase after decades of no true adaptation, plus the manga is ongoing. Once the Bleach anime returns in 2021 it'll also become just as relevant.
Agreed, Bleach's legacy does speak for itself, but I do think there are still incorrect assumptions about Bleach and its popularity.
2009 - 6,471,021
2010 - 5,204,193
2011 - 4,187,258 (Toriko beats Bleach)
2012 - 2,974,750
2013 - 2,752,588
2014 - 2,986,968 (by this point Toriko was significantly below Bleach)
2015 - 2,818,926
2016 - 2,253,028
As for its sales, Bleach didn't quite decline by 50% much by the time Toriko reached its peak, but Bleach's decline was because it peaked in 2009, and like every series that charts high it's because everyone buys the backlogs. When it did eventually go to 50% in 2012 it stayed at that level and eventually stabilised at roughly 2.5-3 million for 5 years after its peak. There are few series that could steadily grow and be in the best-selling for every year for 5 years (2005-2009), peak, and then for seven more years maintain the numbers that Bleach did (and frankly there aren't many that run long enough after their peak to compare it to).
In terms of overall sales Toriko peaked in 2011 and only just outsold Bleach in 2012 and 2013, but as others have said, as far as individual volume sales go, Toriko wasn't anywhere close to Bleach.
2011 (the year Toriko peaked with more overall sales)
Bleach's best selling volume was 845,791
None of Toriko's volumes sold more than 545,045
2012 (where Toriko sold slightly more overall)
Bleach best selling volume was 653,085
Toriko's best selling volume was 487,114
There wasn't a time where Bleach's lowest volume of the year sold less than Toriko's highest. The reason for Toriko peaking was its backlog, which is what every manga goes through, and then eventually drops, even One Piece. I think we can all agree it can be a tiring conversation when people claim a series is no longer doing good just because it's not performing as it did in its prime. But as we know every successful manga peaks and then drops at some point - it's why in yearly sales you'll get times where Bleach outsold Naruto (2006) or Bleach was outsold by Death Note (2006) or Reborn (2008) or Toriko (2011) during their respective peaks.
Anyways, Bleach being 4th place here despite the anime ending 8 years ago? Nice. Will be interesting to see how the TYBW adaptation performs.
tl;dr - Bleach's was really, really popular and even series that occasionally outsold it during their peaks don't compare.
I think we’re largely in agreement then that it makes sense why the editorial department made those decisions with Toriko at the time. Since the conversation was a mixture of reflecting on editorial choices and discussing success/sales at the time I assumed you were referring more to the latter.
I think Yozakura lasted 2 days on Honto last time, maybe this time it could last 3 days?
I’m surprised about Magu. Perhaps it might actually have a chance after all.
What do you mean it's not a million seller? It's mathematically impossible for BLEACH to have achieved its sales (90M Japan) without at least one of its volumes selling one million volumes, If I were to make a guess I'd say volumes 1-48 probably sold around 1.5m and the rest a little bit less than a million.. Sure maybe not all its volumes sold a million (Though maybe they did) but it definetly is a million seller in all likeness.