Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[tirakai]

The difference between how Phantom Seer and Build King have handled ending has me curious about how exactly cancellations work, since some series seem to go into a cancellation rush mode quite a few chapters beforehand while others show no sign of ending until the final chapter is out and just stops.

Have we ever had info from an interview or manga or something about how early the creators usually are told they're getting axed?

I know a soft-cancellation (being told to end in half a year) is a thing at least in some places since the Keijo!!!!!!!! author talked about it in a blog post, but I've no clue what it's like for Jump's really quick axes which don't even last for half a year.

 

[Serinox]

The difference between how Phantom Seer and Build King have handled ending has me curious about how exactly cancellations work, since some series seem to go into a cancellation rush mode quite a few chapters beforehand while others show no sign of ending until the final chapter is out and just stops.

Have we ever had info from an interview or manga or something about how early the creators usually are told they're getting axed?

There was that NHK documentary that showed the editor's side of the phone call when he told Fujimaki that RxL was cancelled, but I don't remember if the editor said something along the lines of "You have X chapters left".

I only found the documentary on BiliBili, the part with the phone starts at around 28 minutes, if someone wants to go back and check if something along those lines was mentioned there: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av26563604/

 

[Rain Spectre]

Throwing my hat into the ring, I think the bit that speaks to the really severe problems with BK was in Chapter 2, when they reveal Tonkichi had the power to "rebuild" things by...just using the other side of his hammer. And yet he somehow never learnt about that despite using the thing for literally years.

This is a really, really easy writing mistake, because it writes the characters essentially as little more than props who exist not as people with goals, but as little more than puppets to communicate random concepts about the setting. It's a problem Shimabukuro had in Toriko as well (Coco, Sunny and Zebra basically get no substantial character development outside of level-ups), but when you consider how nowadays Jump manga build such extensive following on their casts, it makes Shimabukuro look woefully out of touch in terms of literally basic storywriting. He's a very ambitious creator, I'll give him that, and the amount of detail and worldbuilding he gave to Toriko is absolutely impressive, but that kinda falls under a demonstration of Chandler's Paperclip Theory, and there's virtually nothing in Build King to latch onto.

And that's the thing, who the hell is Build King even supposed to be for? It's nothing like the rest of the lineup, which is in a sense a good thing, but its actively trying to be exactly like Toriko, which makes it seem like it's appealing to those who enjoyed that series. Only Toriko, regardless of if you liked it, was pretty much an objective business failure, getting nowhere near the amount of success Shueisha clearly wanted of it, and then spent the last two years of its run being basically buried in the back of the magazine with zero promotion, with vast swaths of Shimabukuro's plans being clearly jettisoned (so much so that half of Gourmet World happened offscreen) and is now largely forgotten. Who exactly would there in the audience nearly five years after the series finished serialization who would be interested in that? It very genuinely feels like Shueisha started all this up without even bothering to consider market.

 

[WyldViolet]

objective business failure,

Lol.
Even if it wasn't as popular as Shueshia may have wanted it to be, Toriko was absolutely by no means an "objective business failure".

 

[galaxy-juice]

To expand a bit on the successes and failures of Toriko, the series ultimate circulation was 25M across 43 volumes. This ratio is pretty reminiscent of Dr. Stone today, which might be an apt comparison considering how Dr. Stone is usually at the forefront of Jump's promotion, getting tons of covers and color pages.

Of course, when you look at the Oricon sales data for both series, you see that early Toriko sales (volumes 1-16) ranged from two to four times that of Dr. Stone sales over the same period. Even at Toriko's lowest point it still sold about as much as Black Clover does today.

Two other series that might make for good comparisons are Food Wars (which was slightly less successful) and Reborn (which was fairly more successful) because of their similar lengths. Food Wars in particular is a pretty good comparison because its sales also famously dropped off towards the end.

Obviously, Shueisha had high hopes for Toriko, but you can't force a Naruto or a One Piece to appear. It might have been a disappointment, but a failure is probably a step too far.

And to be fair to Shimabukuro's story, while Toriko did start to feel obviously rushed around Volume 36, there was still time to develop a satisfying final arc lasting like four volumes, so while it was clearly cut short, Shueisha respected him enough to give him the time he needed to wrap up his manga.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Rain still didn't learn what objective means...

 

[SharkBait]

Dr. Stone is BLack Clover level? I thought BLack CLover was way past it.

Of course, when you look at the Oricon sales data for both series, you see that early Toriko sales (volumes 1-16) ranged from two to four times that of Dr. Stone sales over the same period. Even at Toriko's lowest point it still sold about as much as Black Clover does today.

Kind of lost here, you started with Toriko but then jump to BLack Clover. Did Toriko at its lowest point sell more than Dr. Stone?

Also, disagree. Toriko felt rushed at the end, the whole space arc that people kept saying was teased for years was like extremely abbreviated and/or omitted.

 

[TyVip]

Dr. Stone is BLack Clover level? I thought BLack CLover was way past it.

Do not bring digital or worldwide unless you have the source~

Black Clover has 12 million in print by volume 28 (include novels, and other spin off)
5 months ago it had 11 million in print (so roughly around volume 26/27)

Dr Stone currently has 10 million in print as of March 30th

Spoiler: source

It had 8.4 million at the beginning of January, 2021
Dr Stone has 20 volumes at the moment

Given its current pace, it is going to exceed the 12 million before it hits volume 28.

Since we are on Toriko's topic, it has 20 million in circulation by volume 30. So both Stone and Clover aren't even closed.

 

[galaxy-juice]

Kind of lost here, you started with Toriko but then jump to BLack Clover. Did Toriko at its lowest point sell more than Dr. Stone?

Dr Stone has surpassed Black Clover in volume sales. If you need evidence, look at the Shoseki for this week. Dr Stone volume 20 charted 3-4-4 while Black Clover volume 28 charted 5-6-7. Also, Black Clover has been on a downward trend while (as far as I can tell) Dr Stone is on an upward trend.

At its lowest point, Toriko sold more than what Black Clover sells now. I'm not 100% sure what Dr Stone sells right now so I did not compare it to that, but if I had to guess Toriko would probably be less.

 

[SharkBait]

Black Clover has 12 million in print by volume 28 (include novels, and other spin off)

Dr Stone currently has 10 million in print as of March 30th

Spoiler: source

Dr Stone has surpassed Black Clover in volume sales.

???

 

[Dandyboy1337]

I would assume sales per volume would be where Dr Stone surpassed Black Clover, considering that the latter has been out for about two years longer

 

[Blink22]

???

What don’t you understand? It’s pretty clear cut what their posts say.

 

[SharkBait]

What don’t you understand? It’s pretty clear cut what their posts say.

unless the post was edited one says BLack Clover has more and the other says Dr Stone does? Which one is correct as I dont see the numbers posted.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #18 (2021) - VOTING​

The thread for Poll and Comment Voting of the issue #18 is open now, you can vote HERE

The extra series this week are:

-Blue Exorcist 129
-Seraph of the End 101
-Twin Star Exorcists 92
-Kaiju No.8 30
-Excuse Me Dentist, It's Touching Me! 22
-Ghost Reaper Girl 18
-Ron Kamonohashi: Deranged Detective 18

Good votes!

 

[Neala897]

There was that NHK documentary that showed the editor's side of the phone call when he told Fujimaki that RxL was cancelled, but I don't remember if the editor said something along the lines of "You have X chapters left".

I only found the documentary on BiliBili, the part with the phone starts at around 28 minutes, if someone wants to go back and check if something along those lines was mentioned there: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av26563604/

I remember this one. I though that narrator was Daiki Yamashita but turns out its Sato Takeru

 

[Ike79]

Well, they actually did voice chapter 2 of Build King:

Yes, I am confused too.

 

[suzume029]

Well, they actually did voice chapter 2 of Build King

They have done that before, releasing voiced comics of the first 3 chapters to promote a volume release. Usually the first one is a repost combining the 2 videos they previously did for chapter 1. Roboco, Yozakura, Magu-chan, and Phantom Seer all got that treatment, so I wouldn't be surprised if one turn up for BK chapter 3 tomorrow. I guess they just want to do *something* to move these volumes.

 

[Ike79]

They have done that before, releasing voiced comics of the first 3 chapters to promote a volume release. Usually the first one is a repost combining the 2 videos they previously did for chapter 1. Roboco, Yozakura, Magu-chan, and Phantom Seer all got that treatment, so I wouldn't be surprised if one turn up for BK chapter 3 tomorrow. I guess they just want to do *something* to move these volumes.

Oh, I know they have done this before.
Thing is, Build King is presumably ending next week, so the timing for this is really weird.

 

[suzume029]

Oh, I know they have done this before.
Thing is, Build King is presumably ending next week, so the timing for this is really weird.

My guess would be they already had the recordings lying around and if the series' ending soon anyway, might as well throw them out now when it's still in the magazine.

I really want to see how many views these end up with, lol.

 

[Ebrietas-]

unless the post was edited one says BLack Clover has more and the other says Dr Stone does? Which one is correct as I dont see the numbers posted.

10 million with 20 volumes>>>12 million with 28 volumes