Mag Talk Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk

Status
Not open for further replies.

Imitorar

MH Senpai
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
1,990
Reaction score
270
Age
35
Gender
Male
Country
United States
*chants* Down with Bleach! Down with Bleach! Go Toriko!
I am waiting eagerly for the week when that actually happens. I mean REALLY happens, with Toriko getting pushed on covers and specials alongside One Piece and Naruto like Bleach is now, and Bleach maybe being only one or two slots above Kochikame. Or even below Kochikame...

I think that even if it leaves the "Big 3", Bleach won't go away. It will probably find a strong place in the second tier if it does leave the big 3...and as long as the anime and stuff is made for the series, it's hype won't go away unless it suddenly just drops like a rock.
I dunno, I think Bleach is still riding on Soul Society's coattails. Sooner or later, if it keeps being mindless fighting with no story whatsoever, people's fond memories of Bleach 20 volumes ago may begin to fade a bit. Then I guess the question will be whether there are enough die-hard fans and/or mindless action craving pre-teens to keep Bleach in the magazine as a second tier series, or if it will actually lose so much popularity that it gets cancelled. It could quite conceivably happen, it wouldn't be unprecedented at all. Remember Shaman King..
 

Maxy Barnard

Manga Editor
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
3,233
Reaction score
1,618
Age
36
Gender
Male
Country
United Kingdom
bleach would never lose that much popularity, and it's still aesthetically pleasing... this year will tell all if the cover and colour count for bleach lowers past the CONSTANT USE OF COLOUR the series has had in the past few years... which i'm hoping is likely

oh and muddy i can't help but look at the difference between 8 and 9 as important... out of some want for meister to be better
 

ssjohn

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
599
Reaction score
11
Age
36
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Tokiro is a okay series imo but I do still enjoy bleach more.

I hate that Asklepios is just waiting for the Axe to swing, I really enjoy it and will hate to see it go while ....some 'other series' lives lol. Oh well that's the way it goes.
 

DeidaraGrimmjow

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
792
Reaction score
101
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I have one question: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? I am so shocked and disgusted that Bleach, with all its brilliance, is starting to take a back seat to Toriko in the minds of the people. Unbelieveable. I mean, are you guys just fairweather fans or did you not like Bleach to begin with? To actually hope Bleach falls...amazing. I for one hope that Bleach comes back and punches Toriko in its place. That manga is getting way too ahead of its self. If anyone cares to explain why Bleach is not light years ahead of Toriko, please do so. I am scared. I really am. Lets just hope Japanese fans don't feel the same way you guys do. Okay, rant over.
p.s I am not as angry as the post might suggest, just confused (still pretty angry, though).
 

fxu

Manga Editor
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
847
Reaction score
1,103
Gender
Male
Country
Uruguay
I, for one, hope that Bleach and Toriko fail.

The only reason I still keep reading Bleach is because is the second manga I ever read (yes, I'm a noob), and I just read it out of habit. Toriko in the other hand, I couldn't get past the first few chapters... not my cup of tea.
 

Hayashida

Manga Editor
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
214
Reaction score
36
Gender
Male
Country
Australia
lol toriko getting ahead of itself? reminds me of all the shrieks of "editor love!" when it was first booming up.
toriko is good and will only get better

bleach was good again for a while, with the pendulum stuff, but all these dragging fight scenes with zero storyline has become a chore to read, for me at least
 

StrangerAtaru

Translator
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
1,452
Reaction score
294
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I dunno, I think Bleach is still riding on Soul Society's coattails. Sooner or later, if it keeps being mindless fighting with no story whatsoever, people's fond memories of Bleach 20 volumes ago may begin to fade a bit. Then I guess the question will be whether there are enough die-hard fans and/or mindless action craving pre-teens to keep Bleach in the magazine as a second tier series, or if it will actually lose so much popularity that it gets cancelled. It could quite conceivably happen, it wouldn't be unprecedented at all. Remember Shaman King..
I really don't know if Shaman King was that successful. It may have been a mid-tier manga with occasional peaks being higher, but it didn't seem as huge looking over some of the ranks of that era compared to a lot of other stuff that was getting the hype and the notice.

In regards to Bleach's current status in the numbers, it probably is still riding on past laurels and fangirls who read doushinjis of Shrimpo McShrimpshrimp, but as is I doubt it will leave the forefront too soon. One thing I remember back when ES21 was bigger was that the Jump covers of the "all series covers" had Sena alongside Luffy, Naruto and Ichigo, making it a big 4 for a time. When the anime went away and ES21 hyped died down, it was back to three. (even with the occasional pokes by Reborn) With Toriko and Bakuman really cruising so far, maybe the front will be a bit more crowded..but time will tell if Ichigo starts moving back in the crowd or stays with the big boys.
 

Muddy

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
225
Reaction score
6
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I have one question: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? I am so shocked and disgusted that Bleach, with all its brilliance, is starting to take a back seat to Toriko in the minds of the people. Unbelieveable. I mean, are you guys just fairweather fans or did you not like Bleach to begin with? To actually hope Bleach falls...amazing. I for one hope that Bleach comes back and punches Toriko in its place. That manga is getting way too ahead of its self. If anyone cares to explain why Bleach is not light years ahead of Toriko, please do so. I am scared. I really am. Lets just hope Japanese fans don't feel the same way you guys do. Okay, rant over.
p.s I am not as angry as the post might suggest, just confused (still pretty angry, though).
Uh oh. I can go on about this awhile. I'll gladly humor your apparently honest & genuinely surprised question with my own honest rant though (Bleach spoilers ahead, along with lots & lots of text):

I started reading Bleach when the Soul Society arc was just beginning, so I've lived with it awhile. There is absolutely no doubt that for a while it was excellent. Lots of great, creative, lovable protagonists; many varied and intriguing villains; plenty of cool abilities to go around between the two; a cool premise, developed and expanded well; and above all, mountains of style. Kubo knew how to structure a chapter, for one; as well as how to build suspense and plot, getting you to really care for his characters and seriously get scared when they went up against someone much stronger than they. He also just had (still has, really) a cool and unique artstyle.

The Soul Society arc was, overall, a shounen masterpiece, and I readily admit that. Signs of wear began to emerge even near the end of SS though (a friend of mine and I once had a very long discussion about where Bleach started to go wrong, and ultimately we agreed it was at the Renji vs. Byakuya fight) - but at that point it wasn't too big a deal yet, since right on its heels you had amazing massive plot twist revelations about Aizen. But already things were beginning to go wrong. There were one too many overly dramatic fights in which a character would practically die... then get up again a few chapters later and have another even more dramatic fight, then again die... but not, of course, since he'd just reemerge soon after - only to die! and so on and so forth.

At that point I began to stop caring for the characters, and I think that's where Bleach's spirit has completely faltered. One of the amazing things about Soul Society arc is the sheer number of downright awesome characters involved, all of whom I either genuinely cared for or at least was intrigued by. There were villains that I actually feared. Since the end of SS, however, the series has become a rather pathetic parody of itself. The fights now are complete jokes. They're stupidly predictable, and even on the off-chance that something cool or unexpected happens, it's quickly bogged down in the same old formula of long stretches of chapters and taunting and side-stepping and swords clashing and Ceros being fired followed by characters almost dying. It's an endless repetition of "look, I got you now!" "oh no you don't, I've got you!" "but look at this cool move of mine" etc. etc.

This kind of thing can be done well, it's a shonen staple after all, but Bleach sure as hell doesn't anymore. All the characters and villains act pretty much the same now. Just about all emotional connection I ever had with any of the characters has been severed by dull, painful repetition. It hurts all the more because every once in a while I'll flip through my SS volumes and remember how good the series one was.

There IS still stuff Kubo does right. Every time the Vizored appear, for instance, I suddenly find myself thoroughly enjoying the manga again. That training arc of them with Ichigo? Absolutely kickass. The entrance into Hueco Mundo, too, though in many ways a recycle of SS, got me excited too (it didn't take long for that feeling to die down, though the arc had its decent parts later on as well). As others have said, the Pendulum chapters were very cool too - actual interesting plot revelations took place. But 99% of Bleach now is just the same old stupid meaningless going-through-the-motions. I would love for it to crash to the bottom of the magazine so that it could either free up space for other series that are actually worth reading, or have Kubo realize that he's pretty much gone to shit and that he better clean up his act or just get the hell out of the magazine.

Toriko, on the other hand, is fresh, unique, charming, has done a great job of building and introducing its world, has very likable main characters, exciting fights, clever dialogue, intriguing villains, awesome art & backgrounds & character design... I could go on. For all I know, Toriko can take the path of Bleach and become crap at some point in the future - but for now it's very promising, perhaps even moreso than Bleach was (though that's a matter of purely personal preference).

If you want to continue this convo, though, it'd probably be better to do it by PM, since this thread isn't really suited for very series-specific discussion.
 

Maxy Barnard

Manga Editor
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
3,233
Reaction score
1,618
Age
36
Gender
Male
Country
United Kingdom
I have one question: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? I am so shocked and disgusted that Bleach, with all its brilliance, is starting to take a back seat to Toriko in the minds of the people. Unbelieveable. I mean, are you guys just fairweather fans or did you not like Bleach to begin with? To actually hope Bleach falls...amazing. I for one hope that Bleach comes back and punches Toriko in its place. That manga is getting way too ahead of its self. If anyone cares to explain why Bleach is not light years ahead of Toriko, please do so. I am scared. I really am. Lets just hope Japanese fans don't feel the same way you guys do. Okay, rant over.
p.s I am not as angry as the post might suggest, just confused (still pretty angry, though).
I have to agree. A series with little to no real plot and endless kinetic scenes with the only character development being 'oh that's your release' is SO much better than something that actually knows what it's doing with itself, does action scenes competently and whilst developing the story at the same time... by this poitn you've realised i'm being a jerk adn that i prefer toriko.

Most of us probably liked bleach up to a point, but as people spend more and more time expanding themselves within the manga community we lose a lot of our fanboy traits and kidna learn the flaws of what we read (except for me and meister that's perfection)... Bleach just happens ot be one of the series where we realised it's become quite mediocre the most.


moving onto the stuff ataru said about the covers and what could happen.. we have a fair wait on our hands till the next one don't we (golden week)
 

eni

MH's Socialworker ٩( ᐛ )و ♡
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
14,313
Reaction score
1,730
Gender
Female
Country
Germany
Don't let that discussion develop into series bashing/flaming, please.

*hints at a certain person* -_-;
 

Kaiten

Harasho
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
27,293
Reaction score
15,166
Gender
Hidden
Country
Abu Dhabi
I'm not going to lie. If all three of the newest series are canceled I won't be upset. I'm hoping for a gradual death to all three series, so that each in turn protects a better series. Nothing against them, both sports series could be real good. I'd just rather see Sket Dance and Psyren survive.
 

DeidaraGrimmjow

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
792
Reaction score
101
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Last comment on the Bleach subject: Even if in yours minds, Bleach has fallen "downhill," I still don't understand why that warrents it being cancelled. I mean, this is the Soul Society vs. Arrancar. How much plot development could there be right now? They are enemies- when they meet, they fight. Not much more to it than that. I'll be the first to admit that the current battles are kind of slow, but I bet Kubo is planning something big. And when he does, I bet the same people who say it's crap now will say stuff like "OMG! Bleach is sooo good again. It's back at the top..." I can understand the need to be mentally stimulated while reading a shonen *rolls eyes* but, in my humble opinion, Bleach does what it set out to do, and it does it better than most.

And so no one can say that I'm particularly off topic, I hope Psyren survives and at least one of the new sports series gets cancelled (don't really have a preference right now). :)
 

Heiji-sama

初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
Shônen Jump #09 :
Couv Lq :
 

Sexy Randal 105

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
1,052
Reaction score
37
Age
37
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Great cover. =P
 

hatsuharupeace

MH Senpai
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
6,761
Reaction score
907
Gender
Male
Country
Australia
Awesome, Bakuman cover, looks great! <3
 

Onomatopoeia

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
308
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I'm not going to lie. If all three of the newest series are canceled I won't be upset. I'm hoping for a gradual death to all three series, so that each in turn protects a better series. Nothing against them, both sports series could be real good. I'd just rather see Sket Dance and Psyren survive.
Thats mean, thats very mean. You can't really be sure if those won't turn out to be just as good or better. You need to at least read them before making a statement like that.

Give the sports series a try, I always do, doesn't matter what the series is as long as it's sports specificlly basketball series. This habit of mine is mainly due to Slam Dunk which was just jaw-dropping good.
 

DeidaraGrimmjow

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
792
Reaction score
101
Gender
Male
Country
United States
The sports series are okay, but if it comes down to them and a manga like Psyren, I would not even have to think about it. The choice is simple. The only sports manga- past, present or future- that could hope to compare with the supernatural/action genre is PoT.
 

GGpX

Banned
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
985
Reaction score
580
Age
38
Gender
Male
Country
Canada
The sports series are okay, but if it comes down to them and a manga like Psyren, I would not even have to think about it. The choice is simple. The only sports manga- past, present or future- that could hope to compare with the supernatural/action genre is PoT.
Yeah, no.

The Japanese, who have read tons more manga than you and I have ever read disagree with your statement. PoT isn't even in the top50.

Slam Dunk is one of, if not the, most influencial mangas in Japanese history. Before Slam Dunk started, Basketball was the definition of irrelevance in Japan. Slam Dunk made a huge boom for basketball in Japan, to the point that there is a Slam Dunk Scholarship Award in Japan.

So, like I said. Yeah, no.
 

DeidaraGrimmjow

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
792
Reaction score
101
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Yeah, I know all about Slam Dunk and its beastiness, but that was just my opinion. I'm well aware that most may disagree. However, you can't tell me alot of Japanese fans would not agree with my statment. However, I did not know those facts so thanks for expanding my knowledge. :)
 

GGpX

Banned
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
985
Reaction score
580
Age
38
Gender
Male
Country
Canada
Except that facts > opinions, no matter how strongly you feel about something.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top