Mag Talk Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk

[andrewsungchehau]

Addition:
D.Gray-man Will go on hiatus from issue #24 (11/05).
Reserialization undetermined.

NOOOOOOO........
How can it be.... *crying*
I hope it's only 1 or 2 weeks.
Also, I hope Hoshino-sensei is fine.
I wait till it comes back again. Only hope it's not a serious matter. I don't want to wait so long again after that 4-5months hiatus(even though it's unavoidable),it's really sad to see I of my most favourite and anticipated series got hiatus,even for a week.
Anyway, as mention, hope she's fine and come back earlier. Gonna think positively in this situation.

 

[Akainu]

So apart from the bad news for all DGM fans... how was the one shot ths week?

 

[Maxy Barnard]

P2 turned into a mini success despite a horrible beginning, so i think hoop men has the same chance.... well not as much of one, it's not quite as brilliant as p2, but it's still awesome and needs the chance

 

[Kaiten]

P2 turned into a mini success despite a horrible beginning, so i think hoop men has the same chance.... well not as much of one, it's not quite as brilliant as p2, but it's still awesome and needs the chance

That's more a matter of luck then quality, at this point. And p2 was brilliant.

 

[Crude]

Where can I have a look at Medaka Box?

 

[Josl]

Where can I have a look at Medaka Box?

http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/details/10899

 

[Digital_Eon]

I thought Hoshino's last hiatus involved surgery. Maybe she just hadn't fully recovered yet? Though we even got MORE pages than normal in one chapter...

Medaka Box and Suikoden would have to be the worst of the worst to get cancelled by the next round of cuts. How many series have been cut in the round after they began? That'd be just barely making it out of the eight-chapter lack of ranking, right?

 

[StrangerAtaru]

I thought Hoshino's last hiatus involved surgery. Maybe she just hadn't fully recovered yet? Though we even got MORE pages than normal in one chapter...

Medaka Box and Suikoden would have to be the worst of the worst to get cancelled by the next round of cuts. How many series have been cut in the round after they began? That'd be just barely making it out of the eight-chapter lack of ranking, right?

Chagecha immediately comes to mind. Junbor I think was the same.

 

[[Cross]]

Meister was killed off in about 10 chapters, not that long after being ranked.

 

[ruggia]

sooner or later, either Hoopmen or Kuroko no Basket will get cancelled out.....
its highly unlikely that WSJ is going to be keeping two basketball mangas....one of them has to drop, and its not like Kuroko is that good.... its okay, but not really worth keeping..... Dogashi Kaden was much better(thats my personal opinion)
don't know about Hoopmen...

 

[Kaiten]

Hoopmen is just waiting for the next cuts. That's it. There isn't even anything to speculate about. Kuroko is popular, Hoop Men is not. Two basketball series could co exist in one magazine; Shonen Magazine has two soccer series, both of which do fine. But Jump fans want their sports series to follow the Slam Dunk blue print, Hoop Men does not. So it was rejected. Having two series of the same genre/subject in one magazine has never been a problem, especially one as generic as Jump. Look at the action series: One Piece and Toriko are the only wholly original ones, Psyren is the only other moving away from shonen cliche. Everything else is a variation of the same thing.

 

[DeidaraGrimmjow]

I can see your point with D.Gray, Bleach and Mago (kind of) if only because they all have monsters of some sort that must be slayed. But I don't recall there being too many manga about the mafia. And I'm not too sure how to defend Naruto but I know there is a way...it does not have any demons anyway...and I don't think that Gintama is all that "cliche" either. And Hunter X Hunter is kind of original too I think...

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Hunter x Hunter and Reborn are very original. I don't see how anyone could claim that they follow just the normal stereotypes.

As far as Jump wanting their sports series to be like Slam Dunk, that's absolutely preposterous. Prince of Tennis and Eyeshield 21 (both huge successes) were about as far away from Slam Dunk as you could get, and Kuroko is pretty different from it, too. In fact, has there ever been a sports series in Jump that was anything like Slam Dunk?

Chagecha immediately comes to mind. Junbor I think was the same.

I believe M & Y and Hands also suffered the same fate.

 

[Kaiten]

Reborn (starting with volume 8) and Hunter x Hunter are still variations of the same thing: teens with super powers, fight bad guys, win, train, get stronger, fight more bad guys, win, train, get stronger, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Weather shinigami, mafioso, hunter, ninja, youkai it's basically the same template. One Piece and Toriko have bits of that but make it easier to forget. Naruto follows the same template but does it better. Psyren has moved into more plot oriented terrain. Even at their most generic those four can make you forget your reading the same old story.

What I meant by comparing Jump sports manga to Slam Dunk isn't that Jump sports is an exact copy, plenty have been very original, but that more often then not they are heavily influenced by Inoue's style and story structure. The influence is hard to shake, even for Eyeshield.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Reborn (starting with volume 8) and Hunter x Hunter are still variations of the same thing: teens with super powers, fight bad guys, win, train, get stronger, fight more bad guys, win, train, get stronger, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Weather shinigami, mafioso, hunter, ninja, youkai it's basically the same template. One Piece and Toriko have bits of that but make it easier to forget. Naruto follows the same template but does it better. Psyren has moved into more plot oriented terrain. Even at their most generic those four can make you forget your reading the same old story.

Hunter x Hunter is as atypical as shounen fighting series get. Togashi basically rejects every staple of the genre and constantly turns things on their head. The series is all about writing a shounen series in a way its never been done before. I mean, where else are you going to see a fighting tournament where only the losers advance, or a villain getting major character development by having someone they care for severely injured by a hero?

As far as Reborn, it has a pretty unique mix of comedy and action, and I think it's managed to avoid the typical stuff. Not saying it doesn't have some of those common elements, but I think Amano has done a lot of unique things.

What I meant by comparing Jump sports manga to Slam Dunk isn't that Jump sports is an exact copy, plenty have been very original, but that more often then not they are heavily influenced by Inoue's style and story structure. The influence is hard to shake, even for Eyeshield.

I disagree completely. Prince of Tennis, Eyeshield 21 and Kuroko are about as far from Ineou's style in Slam Dunk as you can get. If you look at the general story structure they have, it's completely different. Slam Dunk was much less focused on basketball, compared to some of these other series that put the focus firmly on the game.

Eyeshield 21's only real similarity with Slam Dunk's general story structure is the whole 'weak team getting built up and becoming strong', but that goes back even further than Slam Dunk. Prince of Tennis was just about as far from Slam Dunk as you can get. Level-headed protagonist who has been playing the sport his whole life, team that was already considered a strong team from the start, heavy focus on the actual sport, etc.

Honestly, Hoop Men feels far more like a Slam Dunk knock off to me, right down to the character only joining the team to get with the hot chick.

 

[Sexy Randal 105]

Shounen will always have a similar formula. It's all about how you make it interesting. It's the same with most genres. If you even look at stuff like Shakespeare, most of his tragedies follow a similar formula. It doesn't mean they are generic. The whole point of a genre is lay a format for other things to follow. Well, and to classify things...

 

[DeidaraGrimmjow]

Shounen will always have a similar formula. It's all about how you make it interesting. It's the same with most genres. If you even look at stuff like Shakespeare, most of his tragedies follow a similar formula. It doesn't mean they are generic. The whole point of a genre is lay a format for other things to follow. Well, and to classify things...

I agree. Shonen will be shonen. Love it or hate it. Not every series can be some original masterpiece. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The "generic" formula sells, and people love it. So I say, if you can't make something fresh, take what's already there and make it good...

 

[Kaiten]

There's a difference, in my mind, between genre and generic. Action is a genre. Certain conventions come with action, other wise it would be a different genre. Shonen action to often seems industrialized, more the same car with different paint jobs then unique make and models. Certainly some are painted nicer colors; but when compared to something truly worthy of the term unique they seem a little more dull. Most of the action series in Jump wouldn't change if you switched things around. Would Varia arc be different if they were rival shinigami fighting? Would the Soul Society arc be that different if they were mafioso fighting to rescue Rukia from her mob bosses? The subtext would be the same, the story would only need cosmetic changes but progress identically to the original. If Bleach were about pirates it still wouldn't be One Piece. Where One Piece is about being true to your self, individuality, and has an anti - authoritarian streak; Bleach is just about the typical Jump themes of friendship, ambition, and achievement. All are present in One Piece as well, but there's more to the story for Luffy, but it ends there for Bleach.

Like One Piece, not all shonen action has to be generic. Full Metal Alchemist, Kekkaishi, Soul Eater, Tagami Bachi, and Toriko are all unique works. Naruto, D. Gray Man, and Hunter x Hunter aren't the most original things out there but usually manage to do more with cliches then most.

 

[DeidaraGrimmjow]

But if it comes down to that, it's merely a difference in taste. Some people argue that Bleach is a better series BECAUSE of the differences you made between it and One Piece. Ichigo's "goal" if you will is to merely protect his friends. Luffy wants to become King of the Pirates. That alone directs the seperate ways that the stories are going to go. I like both series evenly so I look at them as doing different things but doing them well. Just because one attacks the action genre one way does not mean it's inferior to a series doing it another way. Besides, One Piece, unlike Bleach, is fueled by adventure more than action, so that may account for the "story" that you claim Bleach lacks.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

There's a difference, in my mind, between genre and generic. Action is a genre. Certain conventions come with action, other wise it would be a different genre. Shonen action to often seems industrialized, more the same car with different paint jobs then unique make and models. Certainly some are painted nicer colors; but when compared to something truly worthy of the term unique they seem a little more dull. Most of the action series in Jump wouldn't change if you switched things around. Would Varia arc be different if they were rival shinigami fighting? Would the Soul Society arc be that different if they were mafioso fighting to rescue Rukia from her mob bosses? The subtext would be the same, the story would only need cosmetic changes but progress identically to the original. If Bleach were about pirates it still wouldn't be One Piece. Where One Piece is about being true to your self, individuality, and has an anti - authoritarian streak; Bleach is just about the typical Jump themes of friendship, ambition, and achievement. All are present in One Piece as well, but there's more to the story for Luffy, but it ends there for Bleach.

Like One Piece, not all shonen action has to be generic. Full Metal Alchemist, Kekkaishi, Soul Eater, Tagami Bachi, and Toriko are all unique works. Naruto, D. Gray Man, and Hunter x Hunter aren't the most original things out there but usually manage to do more with cliches then most.

I agree with what you're saying, but I'd put Hunter x Hunter in the same category as One Piece. Yes, it has some of the typical trappings of a shounen action series, but so do most of those other series. It's about you do with it that matters.

Hunter x Hunter is in many ways a story about growing up. It also has the conventions of friendship, but it turns them on their head completely. The so-called villains actually seem to place as much, if not more, emphasis on friendship and comraderie as the heroes do. I see it as being cut out from a very unique cloth.

Bleach, certainly, is pretty generic. (Not MAR-levels of generic, but it's certainly not that unique) I don't think that many people who are truly well-versed in shounen action would dispute that claim. Reborn, on the other hand, I give a lot of credit to. There aren't many series out there that can be both deadly serious, yet pretty much openly mock the ridiculousness of the series at the same time. I think Amano has done an effective job of playing around with the conventions of the genre and crafting a series that does some new things, even if it isn't the most unique series out there.

Similar to what you were saying, if Bleach was about the mafia, it still wouldn't be Reborn. It would still have a paper thin plot, and a decisive lack of originality; at times, well masked by the lovable characters and awesome fights. And if Reborn was about Shinigami, well, I think it would be a completely different series. Reborn works well enough because it is able to ever so slightly trend on that line of reality. Yeah, there are completely ridiculous and inane things happening, but it's all in our own world, and they're all being done by humans. But, just humoring the thought, it still wouldn't be Bleach. There would still be off-beat comedy, and a very unique cast of characters that all play off each other in ways you don't see often.