Discussion What needs to change (for you)?

Yakkun

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With 4KotA #231 out, we are probably close to the conclusion of the inofficial "part 2" of the manga. Following the tournament, this smaller arc was basically one big fight and the setup thereof and most readers in this community were various degrees of disappointed. None (to my knowledge) were pleased. This is certainly not good.

What needs to change for your henceforth to bring this series back on track? Do you even think it is still salvagable or have you openly or secretly given up on 4KotA?
 

Demonspeed

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More interesting and competent antagonists. I don't even mind the lack of "tension" that much. I just want them to be interesting at least. NnT had some entertaining villains at least but Cath is just a joke. Ironside started interesting but now this Chaos things seems almost like an attempt to redeem him. It applies to all the Perils BTW excepted Pellegarde who wasn't that "evil" from the getgo and actually had rather meaningful interactions with the cast. Diodra's development in the tournament arc was also terrible.

The switch of tone to seriousness to comedy sometimes is just bad. We are supposed to believe that Ban will die because of a clown like Cath and Elizabeth collapsed.

Also, better logic and or at least clear explanations regarding certain things? This fight happening in Liones with civilians being there and nothing like Teleportation Incantation Orbs. They could have even asked Gawain to wait just a few minutes and teleport them? Forced developments for this dumb fight.
 
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Vortigern

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I'm still enjoying the series, but I will admit that a large part of this enjoyment comes from anticipation for the future. For example, I've been expecting the KotA to end up serving under King Arthur since chapter 1 and we're only now just getting to that point after 5 years of serialization. When Nakaba first brought up the sequel early into NnT he described it as a story about Arthur, which along with the fact that the Knights of the Round Table are perhaps the most important aspect of the Arthurian legends essentially means that we haven't even gotten to the meat of the story yet. It's something to be excited about, but it also highlights one of the major issues, that being the pacing. Nakaba is taking things very leisurely and it manifests in some things taking much longer than you'd expect them to. The tournament arc lasting for over 50 chapters is the biggest offender here. There were certainly important developments happening in that arc, such as the return of the other main characters, Percival Platoon getting their STs, the debuts of Gareth and Balin, Beltreipe's proper introduction and Diodra finally becoming more relevant, but was this enough to justify the story spending an entire year in the same location going through a predictable tournament bracket?

However, even the pacing pales in comparison to some of the writing decisions. The villains not feeling like much of a threat is probably the most discussed example of this and it definitely is a problem. I can sort of understand this approach when it comes to the Sins since they are supposed to be these legends that have to live up to their hype, partly because it means it's a big deal when the KotA eventually surpass their predecessors, but this doesn't excuse even the youngsters having a fairly easy time with the antagonists. Lancelot is of course the biggest offender here given that the power discrepancy between him and the enemies is so large that Nakaba has to constantly keep distracting him with something or just write him out of the story entirely, hence why he was absent from it for like 70 chapters. This is what happens when you include an Escanor-style powerhouse to the main cast without giving him a proper weakness to balance out his strength. Achilles had his famous heel for a reason, because otherwise his story would have been less interesting to everyone except for the Ancient Greek equivalent of mindless powerscalers obsessed with aura farming over the actually important stuff. That said, it does seem like this issue is going to be addressed sometime soon with how Lancelot is set to receive an ST that would otherwise make him even more broken. Nakaba understood that Ban had to lose his immortality after the Purgatory boost to prevent him from becoming completely overpowered, and we're basically just looking at the same situation again. Things should be fine as long as Nakaba doesn't somehow manage to unlearn his previous lessons.

Aside from the villains there's also another issue that seems to bother me more so than many other readers, which is how some plot points are resolved in very odd ways or sometimes seemingly abandoned entirely. A good example would be the Drug of Yore that was the objective of Worreldane's assault on the Fairy Realm. You'd think her success on this mission would amount to something important later down the line, but no, she just used the Drug to create some fodder enemy that was defeated largely off-screen by side characters. Great. The Perils themselves also fall victim to this with how Cath spent almost two decades to build them up into a force to counter the Sins, only for them to accomplish... what exactly? A handful of panels of them fighting their designated enemy until Ban just casually one-shots the entire group, after which Cath robs them of their powers. 18 years of effort for a few minutes of payoff? This is like the reverse of having a child by accident, which is a few minutes of fun resulting in 18 years of work. Jokes aside, the thing that bothers me the most here is that there was plenty of setup for the KotA to eventually defeat the Perils, especially when it comes to Percival and Ironside finally concluding their entire series-long feud, only for this plotline to be seemingly abandoned without a proper conclusion. There is still some hope that the Perils could be brought back since Cath himself is not done yet, but right now things aren't looking great on that front.

In conclusion, even though my overall opinion regarding the series remains positive and I'm quite excited for its future, there are certain elements that I believe Nakaba has handled poorly and that take away from my enjoyment. As for how things could be improved, some of these problems would be pretty easy to fix and Nakaba has previously managed to do it just fine. I already mentioned the issue of how to address overpowered heroes in the context of Lancelot, Ban and Escanor, but the other side of the equation isn't a particularly difficult one to balance either. In NnT there was essentially the opposite problem in the sense that the second set of major villains, those being the Ten Commandments, started out way too strong to the point that they made a good 95% of the cast totally irrelevant in the context of fights going forward. Forget about important side characters like Gil and Howzer getting a chance to shine again, because even main characters like King and Diane couldn't put a scratch on the TC until much later. Making the villains overpowered comes with its own set of issues so I don't want a repeat of that with what comes after Cath and the Perils. Rather, I'm hoping that Nakaba can find a nice middle ground after first going too far and then not quite far enough. The pacing is the one thing that might not really improve since it seems like an intentional decision. Nakaba has always wanted to write a story about King Arthur and was already utilizing Arthurian elements in his works almost 30 years ago, so this series is essentially like his dream project that he's been preparing to make for most of his life. I can understand why he'd want to turn it into a proper epic that goes on for years and years both in and out of universe, and there is a case to be made that a slow burn is preferable to rushing even if the former might sometimes be a little frustrating to sit through while reading the series week-to-week. Bleach was my introduction to the world of manga so I'm well-acquainted with chapters in which nothing happens.

Also, the story being split into parts is not something unofficial. At the end of chapter 128 there is a little note that announces it as the end of part 1 so this is coming from Nakaba himself.

Also, better logic and or at least clear explanations regarding certain things? This fight happening in Liones with civilians being there and nothing like Teleportation Incantation Orbs. They could have even asked Gawain to wait just a few minutes and teleport them? Forced developments for this dumb fight.
I don't think the civilians were really an issue. It takes a lot of effort to teleport that many people, as seen from the fact that Thetis collapsed from exhaustion after transporting them to Liones using the amulets. Her and Gawain were the only mages available to the Sins and you wouldn't want Gawain going into the Camelot mission already tired from the get-go. Incantation Orbs can't be used to teleport large crowds due to their small area of effect, seemingly only a couple of meters judging by Sin whisking Percival and Donny away right in front of Pellegarde. This left Merlin as the only person who could have potentially saved the civilians, and her power seems to be very limited in her doll form judging by how helpless she was against Cath. There wasn't much the Sins could have done better.
 

Yakkun

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I could easily go on a lengthy tirade that summarizes and critizises the last two arcs (current one included) but I'd rather not get into the nuts and bolts of it here, especially since most of it has already been stated multiple times by multiple people, last but not least by Vortigern in this very thread. Plus, I feel a bit burned out at the moment.

Cath and the Sins were imo what plagued the manga the most for the past 100 chapters or more. Cath is obvious; Nakaba, you can write a pathetic character personality wise without making him utterly pathetic feats-wise. Cath should have been more. More competent at least, power-wise he probably is good and he did a lot of things that made him look scummy but would have made him successful in almost any scenario - had he not been up against the Sins.

I know it sounds insane but their legendary status - which only has amplified along with their powers in the past 18 years in-verse - has done the manga more harm than good. They are waaay too powerful, especially Meliodas and Ban and they have gradually taken up way too much focus without bringing anything particularely interesting or new to the table. The exception to the latter point are King and Diane because the Fairy Realm arc was genuinely fun and interesting and provided nice insight into the new family Kiane build together. Could the kids have been in the spotlight more? Sure. But it is what it is.

But Ban and Mel, seriously that was just needless self-wank that completely overshadowed not only the 4KotA but also made the 4 Perils obsolete. This may have provided the switch for the 4Perils potentially turning good in the forseeable future and aiding the 4KotA but it was handled badly. Beltreipe is especially disappointing because this man was hyped up so much and he did nothing worthy of note compared to the other 3.


For the future this needs to change, starting with the 4KotA becoming the stars of their own manga again. Fuck the Sins. They need to step back and serve as occasional supporting characters or retreat to their own bubbles of business in a convincing way but otherwise let the new gen handle it. Also, allow the platoons and other side characters to shine more, NNT was at its best when it was about the Holy Knights, PERIOD.

Cath - should he remain relevant in the future - needs to step up his game. I don't care how. Even keep the comically villainous antics for all I care. Just. be. COMPETENT. Get some actual W's, for fuck's sake. Or be useful in some other, unexpected way (involuntary ally against an even greater threat but maintain your own devious agenda or whatever).

New villains - yes, we still need them. Additionally to Cath or replacing him, I don't care. Make them badass, make them look visually distinctive from each other and interesting. Give them a good motivation for what they are doing, Nakaba. I know you suck at writing final villains, you have not a single good final villain in any of your works. But you can write interesting and powerful henchmen. The DK and SD fucking sucked even more than Cath. The 10 Commandments were amazing. Nippon Banchou was - the final fight aside - utterly bland and boring. Kenpei Banchou was THE SHIT! Do that again, Nakaba and gain some of my faith back, pls.

Scenery change - we can stay in Camelot for all I care but I wouldn't mind new locations either. As long as they are interesting and look good. NNT had more to offer than 4KotA in that regard. As long as Camelot looks just like a stolen piece of Britania, we can just as well go back to Britania. The whole point of Camelot is that anything is possible there. Work it, Nakaba. Oh and while we are at it, give us Darkmunt back.

Yeah, give us Darkmunt and Griamore and Dreydrin already. Jesus Christ.
 

Kv0

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For me, Nakaba really needs to improve at writing villains… they’re all pathetic—there isn’t a single good one in this series. Also, the nostalgia factor, in my opinion, makes parts of the manga feel a bit cringe, since it feels like the heroes always win (kind of Disney-like). The story was going well, but it started to decline in this arc. (This is just my opinion, no need to get upset.) Cath started off great… but we already know how Nakaba is.
 
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