Discussion What's in the Box (Nest)?

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Lots of talk in the chapter threads. What's hidden in the crystal structure behind the *seal* (OMFG, is it a baby seal? Kawaii!)? What animal, if any, is it? What are its abilities?



IMO:

- Native One
- Crystal Elemental
- Power - to use crystals, duh
- Female, bc why not
- hmmm, animal class is Tiger. We already have the bull (cow) & elephant... and considering the elephant has strong Ganesh inspirations I'm thinking the 5 sacred Indian animals (cow, monkey, elephant, tiger, snake) to coincide with the 5 elements for each native one (we've seen fire, earth, rock... water and crystal remain). For some reason an alligator-looking creature split itself into unrelated animals (from the parent animal and each other). Makes perfect sense. Except it does if you think that the Native One is related to admin, who are ALSO giant animals with the ability to change appearance/animals. I digress.

So, there's my best guess. A crystal-element female tiger Native One descendant/elemental. It had better have tits, right? Crystal tits. "Up next to the stage: Cryssssstallllll!"

Runner up: yet ANOTHER some-odd sea creature, whoopee! Maybe something also from the abyss that it talks about throwing Rei in...

Edit: I cannot edit the damn poll, only add to it: "Yet ANOTHER Thryssa" it is supposed to say.

Spoiler: Tags

@Jubei_Kibagami @Jubei_Kibagami @Jubei_Kibagami
@Jubei_Kibagami @Jubei_Kibagami @Jubei_Kibagami
@Jubei_Kibagami @Jubei_Kibagami @Jubei_Kibagami
@Jubei_Kibagami @Jubei_Kibagami @yourmom

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

"Fuck Rei, amirite, Baam?"

? Eh? Ehhhhh?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2022 ---

Maybe it's a different kind of predator.

"Hey, Baam, do you like movies about gladiators?"

 

[King Dryst]

Something that originated from outside the Tower, and that's why only Irregulars can hear and interact with it.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

A Native One is in a dead heat with your mom!

Something that originated from outside the Tower, and that's why only Irregulars can hear and interact with it.

Interesting. Any idea what that might be? A creature from outside?

 

[lazybum]

I wonder if NN/Acrinak being attacked by mostly LPB force is a mere "coincidence", could be Acrinak wanted to be in LPB territory. Perhaps even it's related to the sealed being in the Nest. Could be a friend/colleague/related to Acrinak.

Considering Rei's interests, it should be an ancient specie or native one. Rei could dominate shinheuh, animals, human but not these beings (ancient specie/native one), Rei is calling BS.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I wonder if NN/Acrinak being attacked by mostly LPB force is a mere "coincidence", could be Acrinak wanted to be in LPB territory. Perhaps even it's related to the sealed being in the Nest. Could be a friend/colleague/related to Acrinak.

Considering Rei's interests, it should be an ancient specie or native one. Rei could dominate shinheuh, animals, human but not these beings (ancient specie/native one), Rei is calling BS.

In this thread https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/maschenny-wants-baam-to-fight-traumerei.3022258/ I was thinking along the same lines:

On another note, I'm almost certain that Rei could not control Acrinak if he tried (certainly not everyone is in agreement). It's odd that he sent a huge force and just let it slip away from him, possibly thinking he killed it, if he had the possibility to make it a pokemon he can control, which we know he did want considering the effort to get it in the first place. Even Zahard wanted to make sure it was captured. Seems silly to just be ambivalent about capturing it then when it was right in front of him...

All that combined with Acrinak's own ability - to control the mind to some extent. Meaning I don't think a mind-controller could have its mind controlled - not even by Rei. And the very FB that shows the Acrinak also just so happens to show Rei is a failure at controlling everything, even though he claims he can.

Wild theory - it is said that Rei developed the ability to control beasts AFTER he entered the tower. What if he hosted an Acrinak (while still 'good' as one of the 13 adventurers) wayyyy back in the day, thus giving him that ability? We do know that Ancient One DD's did climb with the adventurers for a time, before Zahard betrayed them.

Which we keep going back to the native beasts and other ancients though. From Acrinak to EVK/Khel's beasts, those ancients seem to need a host. Female Acrinak?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2022 ---

I wonder if NN/Acrinak being attacked by mostly LPB force is a mere "coincidence", could be Acrinak wanted to be in LPB territory. Perhaps even it's related to the sealed being in the Nest. Could be a friend/colleague/related to Acrinak.

Considering Rei's interests, it should be an ancient specie or native one. Rei could dominate shinheuh, animals, human but not these beings (ancient specie/native one), Rei is calling BS.

Not coincidental at all:

- Rei is the big man on campus when it comes to controlling things (just ask him; he'll tell you!)
- Rei can't control whatever is in the seal, it is a very old being/creature
- The Acrinak can control people's minds, at least enough to make them stop moving and enter another realm, possibly much more
- WW is the outlier of the beast-people hybrids, he can't be controlled by Rei OR the Acrinak
- As such, the Acrinak is hyper-focused on this ability and WW by extension
- LPB and Zahard both combine forces to take on an ancient and capture it - the two with the biggest skin in the game when it comes to controlling and/or sealing ancient beasts in the tower
- Rei doesn't even bother trying to control the Acrinak (known to be able to control others in its own right), possibly implying he knows he can't
- Rei certainly wanted the Acrinak under his thumb, one can't argue he had no interest in it
- The fangs came about to be able to instill fear/control in others, particularly those that cannot be controlled



Now, if there isn't a common thread in all that, that's too much mere coincidence.

 

[lazybum]

To add on :

- Owl or whoever remarked some info about the ancient specie. If a trifle like him knew some stuff, then Rei most certainly knows a lot about Acrinak.
- Rei intentionally ordered WW to court then make a baby with NN, knowing that NN is host to Acrinak.
- WW is supposed to be an engineered specie designed that even LPB kids can control through a technique, and though WW is special that he can't be dominated, his first son Doom seems to not carry his special power.

Perhaps Rei wanted to trap Acrinak through NN/WW's kid and then being able to control somehow through beastkin's engineered genes.

 

[AdityaG]

I guess it is some Ancient like Akrinak kind of.

'It' said it's everywhere in the shinsoo in every part of the floating stone, so I presume it has got admin-level kind of control on shinsu (albeit even if in smaller area), a power that suits an Ancient one.

'It' said only the 10 Family head and baam could hear the voice, I guess it's due to some powerful spell maybe. Not powerful enough that 'it''s energy overflows through which it can talk with Baam in his mid, Baam said as the seal is released, it's voice is getting louder, i guess this is that more of 'it''s energy/power (power to talk through his mind maybe) baam can feel.

Baam said he can feel the 'sadness' transmitted in the voice, and the way 'it' says, exciting still Baam saying it has sadness, it looks like it wants 'revenge' from Traum. I am linking this with two past events, one most have assumed that it's the thing that Traum tried to control but failed so sealed it. Second one is a wild idea, but I think maybe the 'someone who he loved left him' kind of story also links to this. Say someone was it's 'host' (this is one problematic part, i can't say 'it' requires a host), was killed by Traum or some other sad story with traum, and 'it' has been waiting for thousands of years to get revenge.

So all in all, something that has great control on shinsu, something that even the spell of the 10 FHs couldn't hold its powers, something that wants revenge from Traum.
Among the options, if it was host or 'helper' (whatever) of someone that fought Traum, then it's like an even more powered Akrinak, eitherway I think it's a Native One

EDIT: Only rachel or sly can beat my arguments, so I MUST chose rachel also : )
EDIT++: I don't mean an admin itself, from the 'admin-level kind of control on shinsu', I just read the chapter thread, it had been discussed before my post was put

 

[Cinera]

Something that needs a host.

The Voice says that Baam is "qualified":

Spoiler

That he is capable of "accepting" it, and that it will lend Baam its power to take revenge on Traumerei:

Spoiler

Rather than a Shinheuh to be controlled by an Anima, it sounds more like something that needs a host to utilise its power. Perhaps a Demon, Thryssa or Ancient Species.

The Voice wondering if Baam can be the one to defeat Traumerei (despite it clearly desiring to take revenge on Traumerei in its own right) reinforces the notion that it's something that needs a host to function. It is not capable of combating Traumerei by itself. So it's wondering if its next host/vessel (Baam) would be capable of fulfilling its vendetta.



Baam also said that it is "extremely dangerous", so I expect it to be mighty powerful.

 

[Fiodor Pavlovich K]

I guess it is some Ancient like Akrinak kind of.

I'm not buying the ancient hypothesis. They sure are powerful from a regular pov but not powerful enough to be treasured and even challenge an irregular. From what we've seen so far at least.

Something that needs a host.

The Voice says that Baam is "qualified":

That he is capable of "accepting" it, and that it will lend Baam its power to take revenge on Traumerei:

Rather than a Shinheuh to be controlled by an Anima, it sounds more like something that needs a host to utilise its power. Perhaps a Demon, Thryssa or Ancient Species.

The Voice wondering if Baam can be the one to defeat Traumerei (despite it clearly desiring to take revenge on Traumerei in its own right) reinforces the notion that it's something that needs a host to function. It is not capable of combating Traumerei by itself. So it's wondering if its next host/vessel (Baam) would be capable of fulfilling its vendetta.

Baam also said that it is "extremely dangerous", so I expect it to be mighty powerful.

Thanks for taking the time to add the panels.

Baam already hosts so many things that are hard to keep track, we don't even know what many do. From the writer perspective is quite easy to handle making it a strong possibility but i'm hoping (always) for something different.

So I'm betting on a Shinheuh. I feel like it would fit nicely in the arc theme and something 'alive' would be much better than an object IMO (even though objects appear to be alive in TOG XD).

 

[Cinera]

So I'm betting on a Shinheuh. I feel like it would fit nicely in the arc theme and something 'alive' would be much better than an object IMO (even though objects appear to be alive in TOG XD).

That doesn't fit with Baam being "qualified" to "accept" it's power. That language strongly implies that Baam would become its host or vessel.

Note that even though it wants revenge on Traumerei, it says that it wants to see if Baam will be capable of defeating Traumerei. It doesn't speak of taking revenge itself. Most likely because it cannot fight by itself and would need a host in order to realise its revenge.

 

[Fiodor Pavlovich K]

That doesn't fit with Baam being "qualified" to "accept" it's power. That language strongly implies that Baam would become its host or vessel.

Shinheuh can be given, I remember reading Dokoko saying Tramerei gave him the eagle. So I think being qualified and accepting would still fit IMO. Also, to me Shinheuh act many time like something that anima is a host. I mean it wouldn't be that different of the Thryssas

Note that even though it wants revenge on Traumerei, it says that it wants to see if Baam will be capable of defeating Traumerei. It doesn't speak of taking revenge itself. Most likely because it cannot fight by itself and would need a host in order to realise its revenge.

Maybe it can fight by itself and it's just not strong enough.

 

[Cinera]

Shinheuh can be given, I remember reading Dokoko saying Tramerei gave him the eagle. So I think being qualified and accepting would still fit IMO. Also, to me Shinheuh act many time like something that anima is a host. I mean it wouldn't be that different of the Thryssas

A Shinheuh would not need a qualified host to accept it. Shinheuh can fight independently of their host (see the Ancient Odd Eyed Cobra for example). So no, I don't think it fits. Not for traditional Shinheuh.

It also doesn't fit its claim that it will "lend its power" to Baam.

Maybe it can fight by itself and it's just not strong enough.

I doubt it. It told Baam that it will lend Baam its power to take revenge on the Lo Po Bia Family and thereafter implied that realising that revenge depends on Baam.

 

[Arjuna]

I want it to be a Shinhueh but let's see what it is.Though i doubt it is an Admin,it is beyond the capability of Family Heads to seal an Admin.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Hmm, so *I* was way off. Mostly. It does have ice (a crystal!) and/or water elemental powers.

- It's kind of a shinheuh. But not a traditional one.
- It's kind of an ancient. But not a traditional one.
- It's kind of an elemental. But not a traditional one.
- It's a type of dragon. But not a traditional one.
- It's being referred to as a 'demon' but I don't think that is self-referential, and was just an early translator opinion really.
- It's possibly a materialized ego. So... 'soul' kind of works as an answer as well.
- It's *possibly* (brought in) from outside the tower as well - insofar as it is a piece of Rei's ego? Yet it is 'birthed' in the tower.

More to come as we figure it out.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2022 ---

Crystal Elemental
...
We already have the bull (cow) & elephant... and considering the elephant has strong Ganesh inspirations I'm thinking the 5 sacred Indian animals (cow, monkey, elephant, tiger, snake) to coincide with the 5 elements for each native one (we've seen fire, earth, rock... water and crystal remain).
...
***Runner up: yet ANOTHER some-odd sea creature, whoopee! Maybe something also from the abyss that it talks about throwing Rei in...***

OK, I thought a serpent (sea creature) from the abyss would be too obvious (Leviathan), but it is what it is. Although this is less a 'natural' animal and more of an egoist construct cum dragon.

Crystal... ice... water... kind of on target there. Ice being the crystalline structure of water, but not sure if SIU is making the connection one way or another yet.

Looks like I picked the wrong animal though (snek/serpent, not tiger or monkey), though that would only be correct if this was one of the five as sacred animals, which it doesn't appear to be (a Native One that is).

It also doesn't seem to be the type of 'ancient' that preceded the OG13 in the tower, but instead is the type of 'ancient' that was 'birthed' (still uncertain of exact meaning here as it pertains to Rei) during their ascension.

 

[Cinera]

Hmm, so *I* was way off. Mostly. It does have ice (a crystal!) and/or water elemental powers.

- It's kind of a shinheuh. But not a traditional one.
- It's kind of an ancient. But not a traditional one.
- It's kind of an elemental. But not a traditional one.
- It's a type of dragon. But not a traditional one.
- It's being referred to as a 'demon' but I don't think that is self-referential, and was just an early translator opinion really.
- It's possibly a materialized ego. So... 'soul' kind of works as an answer as well.
- It's *possibly* (brought in) from outside the tower as well - insofar as it is a piece of Rei's ego? Yet it is 'birthed' in the tower.

More to come as we figure it out.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2022 ---

OK, I thought a serpent (sea creature) from the abyss would be too obvious (Leviathan), but it is what it is. Although this is less a 'natural' animal and more of an egoist construct cum dragon.

Crystal... ice... water... kind of on target there. Ice being the crystalline structure of water, but not sure if SIU is making the connection one way or another yet.

Looks like I picked the wrong animal though (snek/serpent, not tiger or monkey), though that would only be correct if this was one of the five as sacred animals, which it doesn't appear to be (a Native One that is).

It also doesn't seem to be the type of 'ancient' that preceded the OG13 in the tower, but instead is the type of 'ancient' that was 'birthed' (still uncertain of exact meaning here as it pertains to Rei) during their ascension.

I think it's far to early to say ice or crystal based purely on a blue and white colour theme.

- It's kind of an ancient. But not a traditional one.

I disagree. The Ancient existed from before the Great Journey.

Leviathan was birthed by Traumerei.

- It's kind of an elemental. But not a traditional one.

I don't think it's an elemental at all.

- It's a type of dragon. But not a traditional one.

- It's kind of a shinheuh. But not a traditional one.

It's a Shinheuh that bears the name of a mythical sea serpent. Both Traumerei and Kirin referred to it as an animal.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I think it's far to early to say ice or crystal based purely on a blue and white colour theme.

While true, it does have a certain aesthetic. We will see. TBD.

I disagree. The Ancient existed from before the Great Journey.

'Ancient' is relative. The Great Journey was also an ancient time period relative to modern tower era. It's one reason Jinsung is seen as an ancient beast of sorts. Ancient just means old as opposed to an official classification. Jinsung refers to the "ancient wars" to Mas, referencing Genesis. So, Genesis is also ancient history.

Leviathan was birthed by Traumerei.

But we don't know *when* (though we have obvious hints). Could it have been in the ancient periods (Entering the Tower - Genesis)? How else would it have referenced ancients in the tower, which were later killed, sealed, or dispelled (hinted at occurring long ago during the establishment of empire)? Obviously it had to coexist with them at some point. TBD.

I don't think it's an elemental at all.

Probably true, though it existed/awaited *inside* the very shinsoo in the structure. Is that an effect of the seal - who knows? Or does that have something to do with its abilities? We know enough to know it 'feeds on emotions' - that is enough to believe it isn't *traditionally* corporeal (like a frog or a squirrel or a snek IRL). And if it is a creature formed from Rei's ego, all the more reason it has some sort of metaphysical abilities. Just like Acrinak can form a solid fist, sure, but it also can do energy blasts and probably more importantly do some mind-fuckery and turn into a dust cloud. TBD.

It's a Shinheuh that bears the name of a mythical sea serpent. Both Traumerei and Kirin referred to it as an animal.

In the same way it is a beast, sure. It has the morphology of an Eastern dragon. A sea serpent as opposed to a dragon... that's really analogous. Depending on the culture it's basically one and the same.

It hardly seems traditional at all. In fact, we don't even know if it needs a bowl or just a host - or neither. It seemed to be formed from emotions, that's hardly the same as tower fauna. If its words are to be true it even could rule over the ancient ones as well. Further, its entire existence is predicated on someone, somewhere feeling a type of way about Rei. That's hardly conventional from tower creatures/shinheuh we've seen.

This, so far, seems to be a class apart from *traditional* shinheuh, which was my point.

=============================

Regardless - the spirit if you will of my last post was 'not enough information yet' - nothing conclusive, just hints. TBD.

 

[Cinera]

Probably true, though it existed/awaited *inside* the very shinsoo in the structure.

I read that as the Suspendium being its bowl.

But we don't know *when* (though we have obvious hints). Could it have been in the ancient periods (Entering the Tower - Genesis)? How else would it have referenced ancients in the tower, which were later killed, sealed, or dispelled (hinted at occurring long ago during the establishment of empire)? Obviously it had to coexist with them at some point. TBD.

This is from the Bible:

33 Nothing on earth is its equal—
a creature without fear.

34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
it is king over all that are proud.”

This:

Everything inside the Tower was under my power, and that included everything from the ancient times, or even outside the Tower.

Is just a Tower of God localised version of Leviathan standing above all on earth.

Ergo, I don't think that the claim is necessarily true. It doesn't need to have fought the Ancients to know that it's stronger than them.

The lore of Leviathan is that its a monster that is unparalleled in all the earth.

More than anything, this hypes the Ancients as Leviathan mentioned them alongside the Irregulars.

Further, its entire existence is predicated on someone, somewhere feeling a type of way about Rei. That's hardly conventional from tower creatures/shinheuh we've seen.

It wasn't born from hatred towards Traumerei. It just cannot be killed as long as hatred towards Traumerei exists. That relationship towards Traumerei is something that Leviathan acquired later in life from eating the filth of disgusting emotions.

Regardless - the spirit if you will of my last post was 'not enough information yet' - nothing conclusive, just hints. TBD.

It's a Biblically accurate rendition of Leviathan.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I read that as the Suspendium being its bowl.

OK, and that may be true, but what happens once removed from the bowl? We don't know, and the suspendium cavern is hardly portable, so....

This is from the Bible:

Is just a Tower of God localised version of Leviathan standing above all on earth.

Ergo, I don't think that the claim is necessarily true. It doesn't need to have fought the Ancients to know that it's stronger than them.

Seems a bit nonsensical to specifically mention the ancients - separately from the irregulars - if that's not a real claim.

Although, there's something to be said about BS claims. Rei said he could subjugate everything in the tower and that's obviously not true with the inclusion of at least the Leviathan, possibly more.

Still, boasting a very specific claim is the obvious assumption to lean towards between the two. There's more evidence that he was lording over the ancients than he wasn't - all we have is his claim to go on. There's no evidence - yet, if ever - that this is a bogus claim.

The lore of Leviathan is that its a monster that is unparalleled in all the earth.

We can't read biblical lore into ToG lore when it isn't there. Leviathan is clearly inspired, but it's not a 1:1 translation. The most obvious besides biblical antiquity and the tower is the timeline, and the fact that the Tower Leviathan was 'born' while the biblical one was primordial and prehistoric.

More than anything, this hypes the Ancients as Leviathan mentioned them alongside the Irregulars.

Which lends credence to the time frame being more of one of the time when they were all in the same room, an ancient time - the great climb.

It wasn't born from hatred towards Traumerei.

I didn't say it was. ?

It just cannot be killed as long as hatred towards Traumerei exists. That relationship towards Traumerei is something that Leviathan acquired later in life from eating the filth of disgusting emotions.

Yes. And?

I'll reiterate what I was saying - that this existence is unlike any shinheuh we've seen previously.

It's a Biblically accurate rendition of Leviathan.

Except where it isn't, which is legion (hey, another biblical reference).

In any event a biblical Leviathan has nothing to do with the timeline or origin or traits or anything else really of a Tower Leviathan. The two do not directly translate at all. They share a name and possible (suspected) appearance. That's about it.

 

[toil]

Welp, this didn't go anything like I thought it would. Two or three years ago ToG was just another story with some snakes in it, now... they're everywhere.