Discussion What's your Wano copium?

[Core D. Roy]

Mine is that Zoro is going to have a meaningful character moment. I hope that his encounter with what appeared to be the literal grim reaper results in him having a short one or two chapter mini-arc of being in the actual afterlife, where he can confront his ancestors. It'd give the whole Fire Festival 'spirits of the dead' thing a lot more weight and at the same time give Zoro the much needed moments he hasn't had yet in Wano.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Mine is that Zoro is going to have a meaningful character moment. I hope that his encounter with what appeared to be the literal grim reaper results in him having a short one or two chapter mini-arc of being in the actual afterlife, where he can confront his ancestors. It'd give the whole Fire Festival 'spirits of the dead' thing a lot more weight and at the same time give Zoro the much needed moments he hasn't had yet in Wano.

That would be awesome if we get some dedicated character development for him similar to how we got for Sanji in WCI. Honestly, so far the most progress Zoro has made character wise was during the fight with King when he realized the old man was from Wano, that his village was founded by him, and that he needs to give Enma more haki. The fact Zoro didn't even think about this when he first learned this info before the battle was just weird.

Aside from Zoro character development, one that I would love is getting answers about how Zou+OG Joyboy+Minks+Wano all are connected. So far its just been a given without any explanation as to how. I'd hope getting resolution to these questions would explain random stuff like the island of Onigashima being in Wano, the shape of the land, what Zunesha's crime was, etc. I don't want to have to wait until Laughtale to get answers to these questions.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Mine is that Zoro is going to have a meaningful character moment. I hope that his encounter with what appeared to be the literal grim reaper results in him having a short one or two chapter mini-arc of being in the actual afterlife, where he can confront his ancestors. It'd give the whole Fire Festival 'spirits of the dead' thing a lot more weight and at the same time give Zoro the much needed moments he hasn't had yet in Wano.

This will be so welcomed. It will go along with how he says he will be the king of hell to become the world's strongest swordsman if he has to. If he has a mini arc of him confronting the grim reaper and become the king of hell, return back to life (thanks to Chopper) and wake up near the end of the festival if only for a brief moment.

It would be awesome if his final moniker is, The Pirate Hunter, King of Hell: Roronoa Zoro. Now I'm just fanboying.

 

[Zmsp]

I guess the biggest copium I'm on is still believing this arc will end on a better note than this.

I'm tired of Wano. It's been an exhausting ride and I just want a change of scenery and some plot reveals, but Oda has yet to really disappoint me when it comes to an arc's ending, so I'm not about to lose faith in him.

Wano's had a lot of stuff I didn't like, and I'll reserve a final verdict for when it's finally over and I can read it fluidly, but the only thing worse than a four year arc with its highs and so many lows, is a four year arc that banks all the dramatic load into plot reveals. There's been very little struggle, and very few consequences to something this big, so there's two ways of looking at it: it's been an underwhelming conflict, or there's more to it than this. I think we have enough unanswered questions for me to bet on the latter.

Kaidou, Big Mom, World Government or a new party involved. I don't care which, but give me something better than this.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I guess the biggest copium I'm on is still believing this arc will end on a better note than this.

I'm tired of Wano. It's been an exhausting ride and I just want a change of scenery and some plot reveals, but Oda has yet to really disappoint me when it comes to an arc's ending, so I'm not about to lose faith in him.

Wano's had a lot of stuff I didn't like, and I'll reserve a final verdict for when it's finally over and I can read it fluidly, but the only thing worse than a four year arc with its highs and so many lows, is a four year arc that banks all the dramatic load into plot reveals. There's been very little struggle, and very few consequences to something this big, so there's two ways of looking at it: it's been an underwhelming conflict, or there's more to it than this. I think we have enough unanswered questions for me to bet on the latter.

Kaidou, Big Mom, World Government or a new party involved. I don't care which, but give me something better than this.

Well, we do still have Zunesha demolishing the WG ships to look forward to. If anything that'll be somewhat cathartic.

I do agree, I feel like there's just something missing from this climax.

 

[Zmsp]

Well, we do still have Zunesha demolishing the WG ships to look forward to. If anything that'll be somewhat cathartic.

I do agree, I feel like there's just something missing from this climax.

I'm just waiting to see what happens because the lack of developments for the past two chapters just makes for recycling points of debate, and I feel like this one has had a lot of back and forth already.

I think Zunesha might take care of a few boats, sure, but seriously: Is it really the most likely assumption that a whole faction introduced at the later stages of the raid, with clear goals in mind and certain conditions to enact on those goals (who've just been met), with an important antagonist on board (at the bare minimum), with relevant information about other plot points, is not even going to interact with the protagonist? From an author's perspective, does this really seem reasonable?

I'm not even asking this rhetorically, because so many people seem to share this sentiment that I'm starting to question if I'm the one being unreasonable. Does it make any sense for Rob Lucci to be out of the story like that, or come back later and say: "Yo guys, you never got to know about this, but I was aboard the ships that got trunked back in Wano"

I think the other parts being done is reasonable enough, but this point in particular is something that I really just can't see as likely.

 

[grey matter]

My copium is that Kaido is actually not down for good.

Nothing do with the "raid failing" and all, I never believed that it would.
But, Kaido's defeat seemed very unsatisfactory for me, even though the overall fight itself was fine. I felt nothing at the punch in the end, the flashback was bland and just random snippets....... it was so underwhelming that I was sure that Kaido wasn't defeated with that.

But right now, it seems that he really is done for good.

 

[Hibari Kyoya]

My copium is that I've been in a dream, with the chapters we've had being my mind's imagination, and that I'll soon wake up and a decent arc will be published.

 

[Fox666]

Wow, there's so much stuff I can't accept from Wano.

The design of the Big Mom Pirates was incredible, the Beast Pirates are completely lacking by comparison.

There were no stakes. I never believed the Straw Hats were at any risk.

The powerscaling makes no sense. Luffy, Zoro or Kid are struggling against Apoo, but minutes later everyone is beating the shit out of Kaido.

There was so many subplots, everything was rushed and without a satisfying conclusion.

There's barely any plot-hole in One Piece series as a whole, but Wano was filled with them.

And the reveal about Luffy's fruit.

 

[Nie Li]

The powerscaling makes no sense. Luffy, Zoro or Kid are struggling against Apoo, but minutes later everyone is beating the shit out of Kaido.

This goes to show powerscaling should be not be seen as a mathematical calculus, but rather as a "representation" thing.

Apoo was a Worst Generation captain, so held his own against his peers, and so did Drake compare to Luffy, Zoro and Apoo for a while, and for the same reason Luffy, Zoro, Kid, Law and Killer fought rather equally on the rooftop, even though Gear 4 should technically make Luffy above the rest through his speed alone. "Representation" and symbolism mattered more than G4 speed and future sight theoretically being huge powerups.

But it has always been this way. Pre-Water 7, Luffy was pretty equal to Zoro and Sanji overall, yet he struggled against Blueno without Gear 2 while Zoro and Sanji did pretty well against Kaku and Jyabura before their powerups.

And this is not only true for the good guys. Kaido and Big Mom are still "relative equals" plotwise despite Kaido's showings being far above hers. And so are the YCs of each crew, and that's the same reason the pecking order of the strawhats never really changes no matter who comes or goes.

One should just go with the flow.

 

[catagon87]

I'm mostly curious about what happens to Who's Who.

Poor guy was imprisoned for losing the Gomu Gomu no Mi to a current Yonko. That's after the WG has been trying to secure the fruit for 800 years. Then he gets sent to prison and tortured repeatedly where his only hope is the tale of Nika that a prison guard told him. That guard gets disappeared, and Who's Who decides to escape clinging to Nika. He busts out and develops a secondary grudge against Luffy, the user of the Gomu Gomu no Mi, ironically not realizing that his grudge is against the very savior he prayed to in prison. Then CP0 seems to want to off him for whatever reason too. This dude deserves more screen time.

 

[HereNThere]

Honestly don't have any copium to inhale at this point. I imagine some things I wanted are either being saved for a future reveal or just weren't in the cards like Kaido and Big Mom's awakening.

My main issues with the Raid and Wano in general is that the pacing was pretty poor. And Oda can't retroactively go back and fix that in the next few chapters, lol.

 

[Demonspeed]

Jack will get a decent treatment..

 

[Zmsp]

Actually, another big thing about Wano is that I think we'll see new factions arrive soon enough, and set up what happens next. This has been a point of debate with a couple of users, but not only do I believe that there's enough narrative reasons to assume so, it's something we should all hope for.

The pacing has been heavily criticized, and a big reason for that was how big the cast was, and the amount of importance given to seemingly unimportant characters. We're about to have a war even bigger than Wano, and we have an absurd amount of loose ends left to tie up. If they're all tackled later on, I can already imagine the shitshow it's gonna be. We need conclusive answers to some of the stuff we have on our hands, and set up for the next few developments.

Biggest conflict in the manga so far and all we have is Ashura Doji heavily injured/dead, Luffy resting with a smile on his face and Zoro in some sort of coma? Yeah, right...

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro getting a Black Blade

Sanji destroying the Raid Suit instead of Franky and Ussop modifying it specifically for Sanji

Kidd's portrayal was absolute garbage

The Kanjiro and Orochi living far longer than I wanted

Marco not dying for shock factor, I was sure he would be the big death of the arc

No copium where Luffy is concerned, him being a literal God was amazing and a fight I rank #1 for Luffy. The Sky Splitting alone would have been enough for me


And ZKK

 

[Tengou]

I have many copiums, but my major one is 'Kaido isn't done yet guys, trust me. Please.'

Honestly I enjoyed Wano a lot, but it does feel like the overarching story that was started this arc still has to be properly concluded.

 

[Windfall Island]

Because oda has recently stated that he is now going to revise the final arc plot to finish it as soon as possible....what that implies to me is that he is going to rush & skip many more upcoming plot points in the endgame as well(as he did in wano).

What we get as a result is a One Piece story where unnecessary trash like FI arc(things like sanji nosebleed etc) , PH arc (things like those annoying children etc) , Dressrosa (those obnoxious dawrfs, plus the entire arc was a huge drag at the mid way)...hell we got many no significance characters like baby5 & others get flashbacks....a chapter called ucy entirely dedicated to a bull etc garbage getting inflated &
Stuffs like Kaido's flashback being shorter than yamato's let alone BM's & many other relevant plot points in wano not being properly adressed at all.

And now with this oda announcement, i am afraid he is 100% going to cut short lots of exciting things which we have waited for years because he is hell bent on rushing things even more so now.

I have decided to drop the series right now.luckily for me i have read very few mangas so there is quite a lot to enjoy..kingdom,vagabond,vinland saga,berserk,demon slayer etc all on to be read list ....

Oda time & again has been underwhelming a lot in wano as well as in post ts:-



1) kinemon fakeout topping almost all previous fakeouts which is no small feat considering the history of this series.

2) oda not even mentioning the oni race during kaido's flashback (i get that the part related to god valley oda wants to save for later but even the oni part...srsly) .
Why kaido came to believe in oni superiority & tell yamato all those things during their roofpiece fight.
Just no info on oni race at all from kaido's pov.

Kaido's flashback was smaller than even yamato's let alone BM's which ideally very easily it should have been as long & informative as that rather than a scattered haphazard rushed one.

Why is kaido unkillable ? Remember the very first intriguing mystery we had since his intro...yet another plot thread i fear oda wont even bother to explain.

2.5) But at the heart of it most folks are happy with anything as long as wano wraps up.
The problem is that oda chose a cast of characters almost twice that of dressrosa so ofcourse in order to wrap everything it would have taken twice as long.

Or much better...dont try to chew something much bigger than what you can put in your mouth. Oda shouldnt have even created such a huge cast of characters for wano 2x dressrosa if at the end we are to be left with hanging loose subplot points. And also very stupid to do that when already so much outside of wano is left & he wants to finish it in nexnext 3-4 years( been sosome time already since he made that 5 yr wrap up commitment)

I am genuinely afraid of just how many more things is oda going to rush or not address at all even in post wano arcs.

Ideally he must take a 1 yr break from one piece & when he comesback , not rush it otherwise One piece will become yet another of those great series who screwed up the last portions &
unfortunately things look headed that way for now.


3) I am far from being those rabid zkk or raid will fail fanboys...hell zoro isnt even my top 3 SH but i cant help but notice that ever since zou , oda made zoro things like he would lead an army of samurais etc but there has been no followup on that.

Kaido even said that there wont be a samurai like oden ever again which obviously a villan's words like those need to be proven false....by not that trash zkk theory but atleast of kaido acknowledging that zoro has surpassed oden but that didnt happen.

Kaido had a scar & the consequent done on him by oden & kaido said how weak the 9RS were to be able to fail to open it despite 4 of them attacking at once on it...& shouldnt the fact that kaido repeatedly saying how the cut is too shallow imply that someone (zoro?) Will prove kaido wrong & cut deep enough to open oden's scar...
NOPE NO FOLLOWUP ON THIS PLOT POINT.

Zoro's possible father being yamato's nakama, zoro being paralled with ryuma , nidai kitetsu, zoro & the skeleton guy plotpoint.
None of the above plot points were extended or fleshed out peoperly (yet).


Ofcourse zoro is never supposed to outshine luffy let alone in a arc where law kidd etc easily deserve more attention but to think that a ryuma homeland samurai island hyped since TB days had next to no zoro samurai sub plot is just severely dissappointing.

4) BM is introduced as a bad ass cannibal monster on FI ..turns out later to be Big Meme....running around screaming WEDDING CAKEEE....imagine Akainu or BB running around screaming CAKEEE....comes to wano ....ends up being a net positive help for SHs...amnesia...mother's mode...one plot convenience after the other....goes down without using acoc attacks or df awakening even while punching kidd law chooses not to use acoc...just ridiculous.

5)Beast pirates are introduced on PH as 500+ df user beasts army...turns out to be joke looking no threat at all clowns...on top of that introduce tama with a very convenient df to flip the numbers...reducing the threat factor of Beast pirates even more.
Numbers are introduced as scary ass monsters with those silhouettes...turns out to be joke looking villans with next to no menacing factor.

ALSO WHAT HAPPENED TO THE NUMBERS LOOK LIKE YAMATO'S NAKAMA PLOT POINT ?

what about BM & Kaido aiming to get an ancient weapon....or BM hinting to perespero that she is possibly going to betray Kaido...Nope followup whatsoever.

6)Yonko alliances are hyped up again & again since pre ts.. by oda as so dangerous that even the prospect of a yonko alliance forming makes the navy & gorosei pis* their pants...turns out in reality to be handled by SH alliance without any fuck*ng consequence...no permanent limb chopped off..No major character death incurred by Kaido himself..none...and we will see nami & others returning to their bathtubs bathing & chilling just like before..as if they were on a vacation in wano & now will go back to partying after having taken out 2 yonkos as if they were 2 rookies. NO CONSEQUENCE WHATSOEVER.

7)BMP on wano consisting of smoothie etc who were utterly useless in WCI had a chance to redeem themselves but no they are used as team rocket in pokemon. Another massive convenience.


7.5) ofcourse luck is going to favor our protagonists but way too many plot conviniences within a single arc are a bit too much for my tastes & is honestly bad writing.

8)crocodile explicitly stated back in ID that awkened zoans "revive" not just stronger resilience & recovery.
In that same panel he went on to say that the 3 Id guards who were lying with blood on the floor all beat up will also be BACK ON THEIR FOOT IF THEY DONT HURRY AND LEAVE.

That is not how zoan awakening has been "working" so far in wano.

When katakuri & DD had their awakenings anounced explicitly to us by oda , then is Kaido now supposed to be a less significant villan than dd & katakuri.
Every single time in the series when we have had df awakening in this series...we have been told that explicitly not implictly..& now while facing a zoan yonko army we get not a single zoan awakening.
Just the fact that ancient zoan df officers of kaido not showing awakening was a huge let down...& now i am supposed to believe that the 100 beast..king of beats..strongest zoan probably..a fuc*king yonko...strongest character in the series..always bet on kaido 1v1...does not have awakening. Its outright blasphemous (even though i am an agnostic.

8.5) Also kaido is a mythical zoan so now i am supposed to believe that luffy's mythical zoan df awakening was explicit but kaido's mythical zoan awakening is magically supposed to be implicit just so that wano can wrap up.

Yeah right at this rate i would say wrap wano within next 2 chapters & the series within this year.

9) Do you know when you want something wrapped up....its not because it was long...its because it was bad..coz if the story is great then no one would mind things to go on .....infact they would want even more.

Many non one piece fans dont want to pick this storystory thinking that its too long but we think its too short because we had fun & we want more.
Now do you all understand??!! The same applies to wano.

10)No real tension except for 3/4th of the chapter right before luffy joyboy reveal.

And by real tension i mean serious prospect of facing certain defeat.

11)What made kaido go from believeing he is gonna be joyboy to start considering himself as the failed joyboy to reaching the conclusion that the man who will beat him will be joyboy.Why is kaido death proof . No nothing . No answers at all.
This was such a lackluster "finale".
Polls done by TCB scans & the youtuber King of Lightning show that nearly 50% of people were not even sure that kaido is defeated. I mean with Lucci , Doflamingo , Katakuri almost all 100% ppl were sure that yes this is it...this is the finale.
Infact even the most of the ppl in the other 50% who do think that Kaido is done for (& were proven correct by oda)are saying so more so because they are tired of wano & want to just move on...not necessarily because they felt that it was satisfying (other than die hard blind luffy fanboys who now believe that Luffy is as strong as Kaido despite it clearly being Kaido vs 16 opponents back to back)

The last attack by Kaido is seemingly just trying to bite & magma mega version......a defensive posture by kaido as his last attack ?

11.5) No use of his weapon...no 5th wisdom king attack...kaido was not even in his hybrid form which is his strongest during his final attack...are you kidding me srsly !!!
Arent final attacks supposed to be the strongest ones ??
Wasnt New World & fighting a yonko like Kaido was supposed to be a true nightmare like Moriah had been hyping ever since TB.

12)Doflamingo was the mid point of the journey villan & had a far better flashback than the final villan Kaido himself.
Remember we just know what he believes in. Not why & how exactly he has come to believe what he does right now.

13)Lastly, its not that Luffy landed a punch on Kaido that is so underwhelming....it is the fact that the visual imagery of KKG destroying DD & the entire island or even Law's puncture ville attack on BM few chapters ago looks much better than the so called anti climatic last clash which should have been ideally been much more visually impactful looking in terms of destroying the environment or sending shockwaves etc but no...oda could not top that is what is underwhelming.

13.5)The entire moment which momo had been hyped towards building...was going to be him carrying the weight of the onigashima....that was depicted in just 2 side panels.

14)kaido called the citizens of wano pacifist good for nothing weaklings which luffy refuted but guess what..instead we saw citizens of wano being gifted their freedom without fighting themselves...just by enduring & sufferring & not fighting back in the war in any way at all.
Which will go on to prove kaidos words right which should not be the case just like kaido s words that no smaurai will surpass oden...which mustvbe proven false.

job done..nightmare over & you pacifist no doers "earned " your freedom back. Yeah right.




One piece sales meanwhile continue to tank every year for pretty good reasons.

 

[XXGenesis]

I think Wano was always doomed; It was way too much hype around this arc; Like a insane ridiculous amount of Hype both from fans and Author. All because we were getting Samurai / Japan theme island?! I had a 6th sense this wasn’t gonna be all that great. That feeling only grew from Act 1…turns out I was correct.

A lot of points everybody is bringing up; is true in some shape or manner. I personally still enjoy One Piece and will read to its end. But it’s dropped in quality. Wano did not live up to its hype…because so much execution was meh and time wasted on unfulfilling plot points

 

[Windfall Island]

Guys we faced Kaido & BM combo in a single arc & both of them failed to kill a single major character with their hands in front of our protagonists in a near 150 chapter arc.

Let that sink in.

To give you a perspective:-
Just the prospect of a yonko alliance happening has been making the gorosei & navy pi*sing their pants ever since shanks was about to meet WB days.

 

[Zmsp]

@Windfall Island

Let me start by saying that I think it's a good call to drop the series if you're bothered by the way things are going. We're all invested in this series, but it's going to be around for quite a while, so you can always check up on it later and see if it's more enjoyable to you. If you stick to what you're saying, I do hope you eventually find joy in reading it again.


With that being said, I have to question some of your statements regarding the arc:

Wano hasn't really been my cup of tea either, and there's a lot of stuff I don't like about it, but let's be pragmatic: We're still physically in Wano, the arc is not over, and if anything's a certainty, it's the fact that the conflict is not over, because we have an Admiral and a buster call on its way. It's unreasonable to question the lack of answers to some points if the arc's ongoing.

If two important characters have yet to be conclusively finished, I think the most reasonable assumption is that they're bound for a more conclusive finish, rather than arbitrarily deciding that it was just an underwhelming finale. This isn't to say that this is just great setup, because I completely agree that Onigashima was a mess (aside from roofpiece), but we're all victims of recency bias, and if all this set up was just to bring the Straw Hats to a powerlevel that makes what happens next more credible, I think we might end up viewing Wano in a much more positive fashion.

Is this just an overly optimistic view? Perhaps, and it won't wash away all the negatives, but the key point is that we're not done yet, so there's plenty of room for all this to finish on a tremendous high.