When Did Luffy Learn Gear Second?

[monkey D luffy]

i saw some posts saying that he learned gear second while watching blueno soru. but as far as i know he learned that after he lost to aokiji and decided he needs to get stronger.
what the truth about this?

 

[Fox666]

There is no real "confirmation". (except during a filler movie that he said he developed it during a battle)

As far we know Luffy adapt to an opponent, we can guess he developed that steam technique to fight Aokiji.

But in the truth, all we know is that while going to Ennies Lobby in the Sea Train, he said "there is something I want to test". And while fighting, Blueno say that Luffy learned Soru, and Luffy replies "I noticed how does you kick the air more than ten times in a second".

 

[bittman]

Learning Soru and Gear second are, in my opinion, un-related.

* Soru - learnt by seeing the trick in the initial CP9 fight.
* Gear Second - developed, like all Gomu Gomu abilities, on a whim and out of curiosity alone. Luffy has been shown to develop his most devastating attacks when under pressure without prior training. In this way, Luffy never 'learnt' gear second, but simply made it without (much) practice.

As a note: One Piece doesn't do training monologues like Naruto and 2nd class karate movies. So I suppose you could stretch your imagination to believe he had attempted it in the days/weeks of travel between the Long Ring Island and Water 7.

 

[RobinotX]

He knew he had it in Movie 7.. with that giant Turtle o.o but that's in the movie...

 

[Jammin]

While it wasn't clearly stated when he learned it. This *page* seems to indicate that it is in fact a move inspired by Soru. *Here* he even says how glad he is they showed him there was such a way to move.

The logic behind Soru is that the CP9 members rapidly kick the ground to increasing blood flow to their legs making them go faster.

Luffy noticed this in his brief fight with the CP9 members and decided to increase blood flow all throughout his body by forcefully pumping it using his legs. Something that is only possible for someone with organs made of rubber. Lucci of CP9 gives his explanation of it right *here*

Since Gear Second was derived of Soru he couldn't have learned it before he fought CP9 for the first time. My guess is Luffy figured out the theory of the move shortly after the first fight with CP9 and his first time actually doing it was against Blueno.

 

[Razh]

What you're saying does make sense to a degree. Sure, it could be interpreted that it's either Soru, or Gear 2nd. It's easilly possible that he devised Gear 2nd before, and had faster attacks, but just couldn't move at the speed of soru.

The thing that mostly makes me belive that he devised Gear 2nd somewhere between Aokiji and Water 7 is, simply put, Gear 3rd. If he already had Gear 3rd before, than why didn't he call it Gear 2nd.
I didn't see anything that would give him an idea for Gear 3rd at the spot.
He was ready to use it against Blueno before he saw that he was a goner, and I can't remember if he was surprised of his shrinkage in Chimney's s flashback.
But come on, Luffy's no genius. Inventing 2 of those Gears on a train to Enies Lobby is just too much for him.

That's why I think it was before they came to Water 7.

 

[bittman]

Well if Luffy is no battle genius, obviously someone told him how to use them? Razh, it's been shown that Luffy's brilliance is completely based off instinct and I completely agree with what Jammin said. If you question how he figured out the gears, why don't you question how he figured out the Gomu Gomu Storm or something?

 

[Jammin]

Luffy is a natural at combat.

What a genius would have to think long and hard about, Luffy does purely on instinct. The ways he has made use of his devil fruit power is beyond genius. He is not big on training a move and seeing if it works. He just does the first thing that comes into his mind without a hint of self doubt, because of his luck/instincts most of the time it works out great.

Sometimes of course their can be hiccups, "Gum Gum no Pinwheel" for example.

My point is i don't think it to be very unusual for Luffy to create any number of fighting moves, no matter the short period of time. That's just they way he is, and you gotta love it.

 

[monkey D luffy]

What you're saying does make sense to a degree. Sure, it could be interpreted that it's either Soru, or Gear 2nd. It's easilly possible that he devised Gear 2nd before, and had faster attacks, but just couldn't move at the speed of soru.

The thing that mostly makes me belive that he devised Gear 2nd somewhere between Aokiji and Water 7 is, simply put, Gear 3rd. If he already had Gear 3rd before, than why didn't he call it Gear 2nd.
I didn't see anything that would give him an idea for Gear 3rd at the spot.
He was ready to use it against Blueno before he saw that he was a goner, and I can't remember if he was surprised of his shrinkage in Chimney's s flashback.
But come on, Luffy's no genius. Inventing 2 of those Gears on a train to Enies Lobby is just too much for him.

That's why I think it was before they came to Water 7.

thats exectly what bothered me: gear 3rd. if he knew of it before then this one shouldve been gear second. also if i remember correctly he learnt the gears after fighting aokiji and not while he saw soru. also he figured soru out on the roof against blueno not on the train as far as i remember.

thanks Razh

 

[Fox666]

The logic behind Soru is that the CP9 members rapidly kick the ground to increasing blood flow to their legs making them go faster.

I think they kick the floor ten times, and the impact make them move fast. Soru is like a "jump", not as if they where running.
And the way Gear works is unrelated, but he use Soru with the same way.

 

[Razh]

Luffy is a genius in battle. But you can't compare the principle between a single attacking move like Gomu gomu Storm and Gears. Storm is a move where Luffy uses basic stretching abillity of his body to perform a devastating attack. Developing Gears required some degree of thought invested into it. Luffy expands the normal capabilities of his fevil fruit
Besides, Luffy doesn't kick the ground when he's activating Gear 2nd.

Take a look at this page and read the text carefully.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/387/18/

Than this one, 4th panel.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/08/

I mean, on this page, Luffy only says how he realized the way to move fast. Doesn't say anything about Soru inspiring him to create Gear 2nd.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/

 

[Jammin]

Well it seems we see things a bit differently. Here's how i see it.

*This* section is just him explaining when he realized he needed to find a way to fight stronger opponents, not when he learned the technique. If he had known it when he first fought CP9 he would have used it then.

Besides, Luffy doesn't kick the ground when he's activating Gear 2nd.

Because he doesn't need to, what he has done surpasses Soru. *He is literally using his legs as blood pumps.* So their would be no need to kick the ground at all.

I mean, on this page, Luffy only says how he realized the way to move fast. Doesn't say anything about Soru inspiring him to create Gear 2nd.

Luffy's words to Blueno *"I saw how you kicked the ground 10 times before you moved. I got the hang of it and I'm glad to know there's a way to move like that."* So Luffy confirms that his own movement was made possible by seeing them use Soru.

Since Luffy's "Gear Second" was explained by Lucci and Luffy himself said that this way of moving was thanks to seeing Soru. There is plenty in my opinion that indicates that Soru works through blood flow of the legs and not rapidly jumping from one place to another. Besides if it was a rapid jump their would be no need to kick the ground 10 times in a second before you move.

Blueno was right when he said *Luffy had mastered Soru*, he just found a way to do it with his whole body. Which is why Luffy's arms as well as legs sped up. Luffy's technique is based on the same principals but because of his rubber body he found a way to make it stronger and more taxing on his body.

While he was thinking about using his rubber body in that way, it would make sense that he would think of any other ways he could physically adjust his body to be more powerful. The result is Gear Third.

 

[Razh]

Well, since you interpret the facts in a pretty free manner, I don't see anything else that would contribute this discussion, since you're pretty convinced that you're right.
Sad thing is, that we'll probably never find out the truth, unless someone pops the question is SBS.

Just a few more thoughts.
About Luffy not using his Gears the moment he saw CP9. There was just not enough time. And you have to count the element of surprise, number of enemies and a lack of space. Why didn't Zoro use Asura then? Or did he too, pick that up on the train. Why didn't Sanji use Diable Jamble against Blueno on the train. Nooo, he probably learned it after that fight...
How could Luffy test his Gears on a train in the middle of the storm? You'll probably say that he didn't even know how they work, and that he used them for the first time in battle. Come on. He had to have some idea of how the shit works.

One thing I remember is, Luffy using Gomu Gomu Bazooka on that giant from Franky Family. It was somewhat different from his usual Bazooka. And in the anime, his hands were colored pink while he was doing it. I know, it's anime, but those kind of things are not accidental in One Piece.

About that last paragraph of yours. It's so speculative that there should be a new word for it.

Oh crap, I ended up discussing again.

 

[BlackHair]

As a note: One Piece doesn't do training monologues like Naruto and 2nd class karate movies. So I suppose you could stretch your imagination to believe he had attempted it in the days/weeks of travel between the Long Ring Island and Water 7.

I agree 100%!

Unlike other shounen series, OP was never focused in any kind of training. The main-characters kept enveloping while fighting stronger foes. Those experiences of heat battles made them grow stronger.

Regarding Luffy, I agree with Jammin. About Zoro and Sanji, they were also able to keep up with CP9's Rokushiki, so I believe after the first encounter with CP9 in W7 (Zoro & Luffy) and on the train (Sanji), they came up with their new fighting techniques: Gear, Ashura and Diable Jumbo. So basically they came up with that on the way to Enis Lobby in the train.

Again it is One Piece, there was never any kind of training arcs, they grow stronger on their whim.

 

[Razh]

Saying that they came up with such awesome techniques in just a couple of hours they were on the Rocketman, is too much, even for One Piece.
By that belief, Luffy should have picked up on Haki and beaten Kizaru by now.
He should be on around Gear 6 or something.

That's just too much.

Isn't it clearly stated in manga, that the SH were stronger on Enies Lobby than in Galley-La mansion because of their conviction and morale boost, because they knew Robin was taken against her will.

EDIT: Correction. Not clearly stated, but rather strongly alluded. You know, that old One Piece crap about Nakamas and unity and all that.

 

[kkck]

They could have easily come up with those moves between islands. Even if it was a week or two, it could be enough to develop the moves.

 

[BlackHair]

Well, Zoro enveloped a new cutting technique while fighting Mr.1. At first he wasn't able to cut steel, but right before the end he was. He enveloped a new technique within a few minutes. So why is that unthinkable that Luffy & Co came up with their new moves in couple of hours after W7? One Piece is unique, you can't compare its fighting enveloping with other shounen series.

If its about fighting every of those Monster trio are genius, actually every SH is. While fighting with Oz they came up with a strategy to defeat him and that's actually without any kind of strategy discussion.

Just my opinion, its not clearly stated when they learned, though I believe after their first encounter with CP9. Anyway, it has to be some time after AoKiji, that's for sure.

 

[Jammin]

Well, since you interpret the facts in a pretty free manner, I don't see anything else that would contribute this discussion, since you're pretty convinced that you're right.

All I was offering my viewpoint. I presented what i view to be the relevant facts and tried my best to explain why i think what i do.

You seem pretty confident that Luffy couldn't have learned gear third and gear second after his conflict with CP9 as well. But in all honesty, i find it rather hard to find any facts backing up your reasoning. Perhaps you could help me to understand what has you so convinced Gear Second and Gear third had to be devoloped before his conflict with CP9. The only things I've seen you present as evidence so far are....

*) Luffy isn't smart enough to come up with gear second and gear third unless he was working on one or both of them before his conflict with CP9. (This is an opinion any why you look at it.)

*) This scene where, Luffy expresses his understanding of the need to grow stronger and that he found a way to do it. (You would have to interpret it pretty heavily to make it say much more than that.)

I don't think I'm being closed minded when i say, this doesn't seem like very convincing evidence. You are obviously quite convinced that you are right so by all means present your evidence and reasoning. I'm sure you think what you do for good reason. Though as things stand I'm having trouble understanding those reasons.

I listed my evidence and thought process on the previous page. So if you don't know why i think what i do, just read my post again or ask a question about anything that seemed unclear. I'll happily answer.

About that last paragraph of yours. It's so speculative that there should be a new word for it.

Um...yes it is speculative, because it is speculation. I offered that as a possible theory for the development of gear third. Not as a fact. Any explanation of gear third is speculative because it hasn't been explained.

Saying that they came up with such awesome techniques in just a couple of hours they were on the Rocketman, is too much, even for One Piece.
By that belief, Luffy should have picked up on Haki and beaten Kizaru by now.
He should be on around Gear 6 or something.

Since when does Luffy think things out? Luffy doesn't train or plan things before hand. This is Luffy we're talking about.

I wouldn't call him a "genius" because his skill is not based on intelligence. The right word is "natural" because he his skill is based on instinct. My opinion is, Gear second is just an example of Luffy incorporating stuff he sees into his fighting style.

I think you underestimate Luffy's talent greatly. Nothing is beyond Monkey D Luffy, he is going to be king of the pirates after all.

 

[Razh]

I don't underestimate Luffy. I consider it an insult when someone says that to me.

From my perspective, saying that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji came up with those new and complicated techniques between Water 7 and Enies Lobby, is underestimating Oda.

Especially when you consider that there was almost no time that they could have come up with those techniques. A crowded train in the middle of the storm.

Oh yeah, blackhair, you can't compare Zoro cutting Mr. 1 and his Asura, where he has 9 blades instead of 3.

And Jammin, neither of us presented some evidence. Only facts that we have can be interpreted in 2 ways.

 

[BlackHair]

From my perspective, saying that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji came up with those new and complicated techniques between Water 7 and Enies Lobby, is underestimating Oda.

Oh yeah, blackhair, you can't compare Zoro cutting Mr. 1 and his Asura, where he has 9 blades instead of 3.

Just to make my point clear, Im not underestimating Oda.

Anyway, why can't I compare Asura with the one-sword steel-cutting technique? As he learned Asura he was way stronger than as he learned the steel cutting. Each technique was a huge step forward. Just 'cause Asura is more powerful doesn't mean the steel cutting was easy to learn. Without the steel cutting Zoro wouldn't have mastered Asura (probably ).

Especially when you consider that there was almost no time that they could have come up with those techniques. A crowded train in the middle of the storm.

Like said earlier, OP is unique. Fact is, Oda never drew any kind of training arcs. Actually the training was before the start of the series, Luffy with Garp and later his friend, Zoro at the Dojo and Sanji with Jeff on Baratie. About the steel cutting technique, he learned it as he was half dead, so basically in a way more worse circumstances than on a train in a stormy sea.

I don't understand in which way u expect the SHs to learn new techniques. They are geniuses, they envelope due to experiences and in heated up situations.