Discussion Which group is the strongest?

[THM Nindo]

Which group is the strongest?!

- Marines
- Shichibukai
- Yonkou
- Revolutionary Army

This can be tricky has we currently don't know exactly the state of every group.

- Who replaced Sengoku and Garp?
- Is there still 7 Shichibukai? Who are the new ones? Is Buffy really a Shichibukai now?
- Is there still 4 Yonkou? Is Blackbeard the 4th?
- Aside from Dragon, Ivankov and Inazuma, who else is in the R.A.? Is Rayleigh part of it now? Is Jinbe in?

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Either way, this is the place to talk about this!!

 

[ankibunny1990]

white beard himself took upon the whole marines even though he didn't win, even if you combine the forces of the remaining three (two) also then it would be a greater force.
And i dont think Shichibukai are compared to the Yonkous when combined
if the revolutionaries are stronger than the marines then they would have faced the marines in a direct war

so i think Yonkou are strongest

 

[Uriel]

Just because there is an old storytelling rule that assumes that the last force revealed is the strongest, I will say RA is the most powerful one.

 

[konfuzed]

I think even if whitebeard has no replacement yet, all yonkou put together would beat any of those other groups listed, but they're also the group on that list least likely to work together.

 

[matzik1212]

LOL it's pretty funny that till now no one thinks that the shicibukai are any strong ....anyway taking into account that luffy beat 2 of them and has 3 at his "little finger" (well at least hancock ) they aren't a serious threat and aren't feared like in the past
IMO i think that the RA are the strongest for the simple fact that they have dragon that it's the most wanted man in the OP world and the 2nd reason is 'cause even WB who was considered a yankou and feared by everyone lost against the marines ...

 

[Quaro1987]

It took 3 admirals + 5/7 Shichibukai + Blackbeard pirate crew to defeat a single Yonkou. Really there is no contest. The Yonkou could rule the world if they worked together. Now if you count each Yonkou as a separate force (since they work like that), I think the Revolutionary Army or the Marines would be the strongest force. I don't know about the Shichibukais though. 3/7 of them have turned out to be quite weak. On the other hand, we don't know the full fighting might of Myhawk, Don Flamingo, Kuma and Hancock put together

 

[frontaLobotomy]

I'd have to say that as an individual group, the Revolutionary Army is the strongest out there, aside from the World Government. The Yonkou, from what we know of them, don't apppear to be allied in any way, enabling a level of stability that gets them factored in as one of the Three Great Powers. That, and Dragon is the leader of the RA. While we know little to nothing about him, I'm willing to stake that his power is on a par with Roger's.

 

[HereNThere]

I wouldn't really count the Shichibukai as a group. Just individuals under a title as they have no intention to work together. A lot of you seem to underestimate of them and their threat to the seas. Yeah Luffy defeated two, but him and his crew nearly got defeated both times. Hell Luffy himself literally died twice against Crocodile, so you really can't say the Shichibukai don't live up to the hype. Well except Moria. Although Luffy almost lost, Moria seems like he still had mental and emotional scars from the New World which made him lazy and weaker. Other than that, I'd say if the Shichibukai (excluding Moria) were still pirates, they would be considered as dangerous as the Yonkou. Well, depending on what kind of crew they have.

On-topic: I'd say the marines are the strongest based on the fact that they have the World Government on their side. Until I see Dragon's soldiers and plans, I will hold off judgment on the revolutionaries.

 

[bittman]

I voted marines, though I probably should have voted Yonkou. Still, here's my reasoning on the groups:

1. Marines - I initially believed that the marines are the strongest. Indeed, to have any sense of order in the world during the Pirate Age, the marines, which surely don't outnumber the pirates, must be strong enough to contain them. Remember, this group has to compete with, not just the Yonkou and Revolutionary Army, but every single pirate, thief, bandit and bad guy in the world. They aren't just a military force, but local policeman also. They are strong, there is no denying it. That and anyone who reads my posts will know I'm an Admiral fanboy since I rate them all individually above Whitebeard. Though I rate Shanks above WB too so don't get your knickers in a twist.
2. Shichibukai - Unfortunately, crews or not, the Shichibukai are 7 very powerful pirates. Sure, most of them are silver medallists and thus shouldn't compare to Yonkou. However, some are there for other reasons. The top tier (Kuma, Doflamingo and Mihawk) are a very scary bunch. I could rate them in comparison to the admirals. Unfortunately, as a group they are small and lack a good spread of fighters from low - high. In fact, without crews each Shichibukai would need to hold their own against a top tier of another group PLUS a selection of low tiers which can overwhelm.
3. Yonkou - I would change my vote to Yonkou if I could, but it is not an easy victory. The Yonkou are indeed a collection of the four most powerful/influential pirates of the new world. They have climbed atop the enormous swarm of pirates with power alone, there are no alternative ways to climb this far. Given that, plus the knowledge that each Yonkou has displayed a very powerful crew thus far, and they are indeed, combined, a threat to even the enormous force of the marines. That said, I doubt they are as strong in numbers as the marines. And even then, I doubt any Yonkou's crew will ever be as large as Whitebeard's. Even if Shanks is a mid sized crew of 100 elite fighters, the marines are filled with possibly tens of thousands of fighters across all tiers. It's not just 4 Yonkou vs 3 marines. It's 4 Yonkou, their few hundred, or thousand, strong crews vs 3 admirals, fleet admiral, vice admirals and then a collection of thousands of lower ranks. Its a force of numbers, and even though I do think the elite average of a Yonkou crew member will pull through, there would be no straight up victory.
4. Revolutionary Army - Just no, stop voting for them. Sure, Dragon might indeed be a very powerful figure. Heck, might be the most powerful man on the planet for all we know. And sure, if he has a collection of Iva-strength fighters, the Revolutionary army is a force to be reckoned with. However, the RA in my opinion is just a Yonkou-strength crew. If they were indeed, as a collective, stronger than the marines, they would have already finished their revolution. Don't get me wrong, being as strong as a Yonkou is a noteworthy thing, but they obviously have not won the war and if they were indeed that powerful, they would walk straight into the WG, crush them, and move on from there.

Apologies for the wall of text. Basically, I see this as another Yonkou vs Marines, though I can't honestly give you a winner from the two. If it's one Yonkou vs the marines, then sure, marines. All four though, it would be close. RA and Shichibukai are just too small in numbers imo.

 

[Wisshard]

As a combined force, the Yonkou's almost certainly possess the strongest military capacity. But their strength as a group is not exactly relevant, since they are each others enemies as much as the Marines. Thus, I'd think that the Yonkou's military strength in the grand scheme should be considered individually, rather than as a joint force.

That being said, the value of top tiers can't be stressed enough when one considers military strength like this. Having a vast force of elite peons is well and good, or numerous Pirate Captains as allies to call on - but what really would decide a battle between either of these groups is the top tiers. Simply put, the group with the most top tiers would have a pretty big advantage.

We saw that Whitebeard and his merry band had 4 top tiers between them (Marco, Jozu, Vista and Whitebeard himself). Thus, using Whitebeard's crew as a loose basis, we can (somewhat) infer that the Yonkou's each have 3-4 top tiers in their crews, including themselves. Combined, that would make 9-12 top tiers -- or 13-16 before the Marinford War -- among the Yonkou's, in addition to numerous high tiers to match the Vice Admirals (e.g. prominent NW captains like Oars. Jr, Doma etc.) and lower tier core crew members (e.g. WB commanders etc.).

The Marines on the other hand, have 5 top tier fighters (the colorful trio, Sengoku and Garp) and 20-30 Vice Admirals as well as Rear Admirals, Commanders, Captains and 100k+ worth of elite (fodder) marines.

Consequently, it's pretty clear that the Marines possess a superior military force to any of the Yonkou individually, which is quite frankly the important part, but weaker than the combined forces of the Yonkou's.

The Shichibukai, on the other hand, are a far cry from the combined strength of a Yonkou captain or the Marines, and are quite clearly not a world power in the sense of military strength, but in influence (i.e. all of them are notorious pirates, feared and respected, from the World's Strongest Swordsman to Kuma the Tyrant).

 

[luffyg2]

Dont really know what the revolutionnary army can do.. we only know a few of the people in there (dragon ivan kov and kuma) they are all legend but the organisation as a whole i just dont know... the shishibukai some are crazy strong while some are just strong ... I would say either the marine or the yonkou.. marine got the 3 amiral + chef amiral and garp and all those other great marine.. and yonkou.. well they are the yonkou, even without WB they are a great threat

 

[Aramix]

Yonkou probably would be strongest, but don't forget that they all for themselves, what means, that we shouldn't expect teamwork from them. Whitebeard was probably the strongest, so the other three, each for themselves, shouldn't be able to defeat Marines. Next is Shichibukai. Of course they are strong, but we can assume that Marines are stronger, because otherwise it's unlikely that some Shichibukai, would be in alliance with them. Also, the same problem as with Yonkou. There is not much known about revolutionary army, so it's them or Marines who are strongest.

 

[Ero-Sanji]

Didn't garp state that the Yonkou (together with allies) are as strong as the Marines with the Shichibukai?

The revolutionaries, however, seem stronger then the rest, so, why not attack? Well, I do believe that the Gourosei and the council of kings are commanding a large army consisting of men from all the states and nations who belong to the World government.

 

[tousendrinksbleach]

all i can say is : it's not the Shichibukai group

Revolutionary Army- Just no, stop voting for them. Sure, Dragon might indeed be a very powerful figure. Heck, might be the most powerful man on the planet for all we know. And sure, if he has a collection of Iva-strength fighters, the Revolutionary army is a force to be reckoned with. However, the RA in my opinion is just a Yonkou-strength crew. If they were indeed, as a collective, stronger than the marines, they would have already finished their revolution. Don't get me wrong, being as strong as a Yonkou is a noteworthy thing, but they obviously have not won the war and if they were indeed that powerful, they would walk straight into the WG, crush them, and move on from there.

someone who has forgotten that koma was a revolutionnary officer

 

[Uriel]

[*]Revolutionary Army - Just no, stop voting for them. Sure, Dragon might indeed be a very powerful figure. Heck, might be the most powerful man on the planet for all we know. And sure, if he has a collection of Iva-strength fighters, the Revolutionary army is a force to be reckoned with. However, the RA in my opinion is just a Yonkou-strength crew. If they were indeed, as a collective, stronger than the marines, they would have already finished their revolution. Don't get me wrong, being as strong as a Yonkou is a noteworthy thing, but they obviously have not won the war and if they were indeed that powerful, they would walk straight into the WG, crush them, and move on from there.
[/LIST]Apologies for the wall of text. Basically, I see this as another Yonkou vs Marines, though I can't honestly give you a winner from the two. If it's one Yonkou vs the marines, then sure, marines. All four though, it would be close. RA and Shichibukai are just too small in numbers imo.

You seem to forget that Iva stated that "that man has yet to make his move".

We don't know the exact reasons WHY they did not attack, but not every revolution starts with wars and with force. Social support must be there and I'm quite sure that Gorosei has more thing that we could see so far.

So far we know Dragon, Iva (And Crab-Chan) and Kuma. They're SCARY powerful.
Ivankov was able to survive Magellan's venoms, Kuma is a Shichibukai on his own and Dragon is the most wanted man in the world. Which considering how many powerful pirates is out there, I wouldn't consider that a minor factor.

I keep my vote to RA for the reasons I stated above this post, though. I stay by the belief that the most powerful ones are always introduced later.

 

[Rikudou Sennin]

Why the RA doenst beat the marines if they are that strong?

Because they want to change things and want to make people believe they are changing for the better and not their own benefit.

 

[Wisshard]

Next is Shichibukai. Of course they are strong, but we can assume that Marines are stronger

Not much of an assumption really. We have seen the world-class combat prowess of the Admirals, and by hype (i.e. Fleet Admiral/the man who fought with the late Pirate King) we can infer that Sengoku and Garp possess at least comparable strength.
Likewise, we have seen the limits of Crocodile's, Moriah's and Jinbe's fighting strength. Which pretty much amounts to nothing against a top tier.

Therefor, even if we assume that the other Shichibukai's (i.e. Mihawk, Doflamingo, Hancock, Kuma) are all solid top tiers (which is unlikely) it still wouldn't be enough for the Shichibukai as a group to match the strength of the Marine's greatest (i.e. the Admirals, Garp and Sengoku) - let alone the Marines as a whole.

[...]Iva (And Crab-Chan) and Kuma. They're SCARY powerful.

So scary powerful that they were curb stomped by Akainu off-panel.

Now, don't get me wrong. Iva-chan and the others are certainly plenty strong - but they are a far cry from the top dogs of the One Piece universe.

Ivankov was able to survive Magellan's venoms

That feat is indeed a tribute to the usefulness of his Devil Fruit, but hardly an achievement to note for his fighting strength. Considering that he apparently wasn't able to hold off the poison-man for long and was beaten fairly swiftly.

Kuma is a Shichibukai on his own

That, by itself, isn't exactly a great testimony of relevant fighting strength in this topic though. Specifically, old Whitebeard effortlessly defeated a Shichibukai worthy opponent in his sleep (Ace), and a severely injured Akainu swiftly stomped the ex-Shichibukai Jinbe when the later attempted to stall him.

 

[bittman]

someone who has forgotten that koma was a revolutionnary officer

Just because I didn't list the grand total of 4 Revolutionaries we have names for doesn't mean I forgot them. I said "Iva-level fighters". Kuma is an Iva-level fighter, thanks for playing.

Plus, it's hinted he is now 100% government property, so can you really still count him? Be like counting Whitebeard in the Yonkous.

You seem to forget that Iva stated that "that man has yet to make his move".

We don't know the exact reasons WHY they did not attack, but not every revolution starts with wars and with force. Social support must be there and I'm quite sure that Gorosei has more thing that we could see so far.

So far we know Dragon, Iva (And Crab-Chan) and Kuma. They're SCARY powerful.
Ivankov was able to survive Magellan's venoms, Kuma is a Shichibukai on his own and Dragon is the most wanted man in the world. Which considering how many powerful pirates is out there, I wouldn't consider that a minor factor.

I keep my vote to RA for the reasons I stated above this post, though. I stay by the belief that the most powerful ones are always introduced later.

Correction: we know Kuma and Iva are powerful, I'd leave the rating of "SCARY powerful" for fighters that it's hard to imagine them losing (i.e. the admirals, Shanks, etc).

And being the most wanted man in the world is not a direct indication of power. Don't get me wrong, I did say I believe Dragon is most likely comparable in power to Yonkou captains (i.e. Shanks), however he is the most wanted man because he directly opposes the government in open revolution with a sizable force.

And yes, though I agree Dragon isn't going for open warfare on the government and trying to garner support and liberate certain areas first, I believe my point still holds true. If they were stronger, the revolutionaries would hold a larger majority of the world and be a "rival government", not "revolutionaries".

Then again, most of the reason I think RA cannot be the strongest group is for plot reasons. If RA is filled with fighters stronger than what we've seen of the marines and Yonkou thus far, then who exactly is Luffy trying to surpass again? Would kind of ruin the last few hundred chapters of established plot devices.

And by your "strongest introduced later" logic, Jinbe is the strongest Shichibukai and Mihawk is the weakest? Sure, as a story progresses, the general level of introduced persons is higher. But the strongest? Blackbeard, Smoker and Mihawk would like some serious words with you =P

 

[Anduren]

I just want to point out that the reason the government thinks of the revolutionaries as more dangerous than the pirates is because of their goals. I'm not saying that the revolutionaries are stronger or weaker than either the pirates or the marines, but.....the following should be taken into consideration:

Pirates, as it has been mentioned in a couple of places, don't like to stay in one place. That was why Crocodile trying to take over Arabasta was unbelievable to some at the time (in the One Piece world). It was also why Shanks didn't stay in Fuchsia village for too long. Pirates also thrive on lawlessness, opposing anyone trying to stop them; not engaging law enforcers directly. (this is why Luffy runs from marines, not because he can't beat them)

Revolutionaries, on the other hand, want to overturn governments. Because of this, its strategically important for them to hold the ground they take and expand their influence. It is also important for revolutionaries to have public support, whereas pirates do not care about such things (they're always portrayed as evil). If the revolutionaries start an all out war, even if they have the military power, the casualties and damages caused by such a war would greatly reduce the support the public has for them. (this is also why Sengoku wanted to cut the transmission during the war....to prevent the damage seeing such a scene would do to the World Government in terms of public relations) This is probably why Dragon is waiting for the One Piece world public opinion to turn against the World Government before he makes his move.

Personally though, I think if the Yonkou worked together, the world government AND any allies (Shichibukai) would be doomed. That is why Sengoku was worried about just two of them having a simple meeting. Its kinda impossible to gauge the strength of the Revolutionaries since not much has been revealed about them, so it could go either way.
EDIT: Assuming that the Yonkou do not work together, the marines would be the strongest force in the One Piece world, just because, as things stand, they're holding off the revolutionaries AND the pirates at this time in the story.

 

[jorped]

i think we dont have all the facts so we can get to an answer that can be seen has the right one , but although i voted for the Revolutionarie Army i now have some doubts and maybe the Yonkous together could easily be the most stronger, we dont know much about big mom and kaidou but we know that they are very powerfull and by that we can probably get the idea that their crew must be pretty strong , so together with shanks and his crew they would be enough for the marine, if it was them against marine sand Shichibukais i would have doubts cuz if we see Shichibukais really serious, for example Don Flamingo maybe the whitebeard pirates wouldnt have had made somany damage i think.

about yonkous against RA i cant say cuz we dont have much info about RA