Discussion Which group is the strongest?

Which group is the strongest?

  • Marines

    Votes: 39 21.5%
  • Shichibukai

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Yonkou

    Votes: 103 56.9%
  • Revolutionary Army

    Votes: 37 20.4%

  • Total voters
    181

zetruz

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I might've accidentally picked Marines, but if we ignore that part, I'd say it's obvious the Yonkou is the strongest group.
The Shichibukai are just seven strong pirates (at best), plus (arguably) followers. Compared to the Marines or Yonkou, it's a pathetic group.
The Revolutionaries have to use guerilla tactics to battle the World Government. In pure military force, it's probably pretty useless compared to the Marines.
The Marines are hugely powerful, and is definitely the single strongest group in the world (like how a pirate crew is one single group).
But the Marines+Shichibukai are able to balance out the power of the Yonkou, only because the Yonkou are not friends with eachother. Remember how the Marines were terrified at the idea of Shanks and Whitebeard joining forces? That's just half of the Yonkou force. Heck, the Marines could've just as well been eradicated just by the WB Pirates + allies. If the Yonkous all teamed up, the WG would be done for. Simple as that.
So please, ignore my vote!:D
 

shanks the red

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ahahahah guess you're all wrong (or right but...)!!! OK several questions (with few answers:)!! Who luffy trust the most?? who fought as equal with whitebeard?? who put an end to marinford war?? Who is even feared by mihawk?? wich crew is feared by the admirals?? Blackbeard had to retreat before someone who?? so much question and one answer....!!!! as for the rest its useless to determine which group is stronger as the new worlds as yet to begin ( but hypothesis: shanks best crew of all time; blackbeard crew boss final in front of one piece; one problem is the last yonkou but the Revolution army will probably take care of that... then smoker will be troublesome but coby will reappear!!! ahahah I can be all wrong but...
 
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Netero

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Yonkou.
 

BlackHair

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I can be all wrong but...
There is no "but", you are definitely wrong.

Topic: If the Yonko were united they would be the strongest, but as they are now, they could not beat the MHQ as a individual.
 

kulugo

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i voted for marines, because even whitebeard couldn't defeat them.

a bit OT,
do the world government have other divisions? like army or airforce?
 

MaiSiaoSiao

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i voted for marines, because even whitebeard couldn't defeat them.

a bit OT,
do the world government have other divisions? like army or airforce?
Whitebeard couldnt win them because,
1.The marines "chose" the location of the war and had plans.Setting up traps everywhere
2.Some dumbass got tricked and stabbed Whitebeard throught the chest
3.Whitebeard is an old man already.With possible sickness?Make Whitebeard younger another 10 or 20years,He"ll own them all.

I'd like to see the marines sending fleets of battleships out to the sea and have a war with Whitebeard.If im not wrong,Whitebeard destroyed those battleships watching him before he went to marineford

And World Government practically "owns" the Marines.The marines is the army for the WG.And i dont think they have an airforce or something.Not that we know of that is..
 
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kulugo

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well if you're gonna make WB 10-20 yrs younger then you have to make Sengoku, Garp, 3 Admirals etc younger. and WB will probably have less commanders.

WB has setup some traps of his own as well, like the extra ship that popout in the middle, the big giant guy etc and without the help of luffy and co, ace must've died early.

marines > 1 yonkou. now 2 or 3 together that's a different topic.

and i hope the world government have other divisions aside from CP9 and marines. cause if they had a hard time with 1 yonkou then what will they do with the revolutionary army.
 

MaiSiaoSiao

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Whitebeard didnt use any traps.Those are just ways to win the war. Marines on the other hand.Set up traps like luring the pirates into the bay and cornering them with the PXs.And the sea stone walls.And melting their footing.
Even sengoku himself admits that Whitebeard was the strongest man alive.That pretty much tells us the power Whitebeard had when the mentioned characters were young.

And for the RA,i dont think they will go to a war with the marines.As to why the WG is so afraid of them is because they're encouraging countries to overthrow their monarchies.And they may know about the void century.
 

bisha16

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Whitebeard didnt use any traps.Those are just ways to win the war. Marines on the other hand.Set up traps like luring the pirates into the bay and cornering them with the PXs.And the sea stone walls.And melting their footing.
Even sengoku himself admits that Whitebeard was the strongest man alive.That pretty much tells us the power Whitebeard had when the mentioned characters were young.

And for the RA,i dont think they will go to a war with the marines.As to why the WG is so afraid of them is because they're encouraging countries to overthrow their monarchies.And they may know about the void century.
I dont think that the reason why the marines are afraid of the younkou join forces is because of that but because of their power.
I think that every captain and their first mate of the 4 younkou is able to fight on pair are even stronger than the 3 admirals or garp and sengoku so thats why they are so afraid of them.
And besides they would also have a lot of fooders with them too,so probably the youkou would be the winner.
 

RezzieThaRapper

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I'm going with the revolutionaries... the most wanted man in the world is in that group...

Lets tier their power right quick

Monkey D. Dragon - Extremely Powerful (Weather Manipulation??) Leader

Kuma - Pushes him self at lightspeed more effective than Kizaru, able to create bombs from nothing but air...

Ivanakov & Inuzuma - Powerful Okama's in command of an entire island of super powered gays...

Ally: Zoro's Master?
------------------------------------------
That's just the capabilities of a few of them... I think they win so far...
 

hyper_megaman

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i'm gonna ignore all that's been said because of the sheer length of all the reading (lol)

this is my take

Yonkou = Shichibukai = Marines

this is the triangle of power, that if disrupted leads to dire consequences (stated in one piece multiple times)

Marines are well at cooperating. They're all good buddies and stick together for a common cause. The power of marines = everyone added together, in a synergy

Shichibukai = people who begrudgingly work together. their strength stacks together only as an addition, not as a synergy (they do not complement each other).

Yonkou = 4 specific groups of people who are disagreeing with each other. Their strength is wasted fighting and fending off each other all the time, and being on guard every single second.


By this inference alone, each single yonkou crew is definitely a force to be reckoned with, considering they have to be on guard against each other while balancing out marines and shichibukai as well. look at when whitebeard was heading for the execution, big maam actually took the chance to attack him. Shanks had to help wb hold off maam.

when WB met up with shanks to talk, sengokou actually got worried, and freaked out. just 2 yonkou groups working together would upset the power triangle.

if you actually take away the frequent opposition of the yonkou, i believe they are the strongest of the group. imagine if all 4 of them worked together


now wb is dead and it's unknown if this would actually cripple the yonkou or make them stronger. i still believe 2 yonkou working together is enough to give the marines a run for their money, let alone 3, assuming each of them are roughly of the same strength


i did glance some people's arguments of shichibukai being top-tier fighters. you can't compare whitebeard or shanks with mihawk or kuma and consider it a shichibukai v yonkou argument. a yonkou is an emperor and all his men. no one judges the power of USA by obama's taekwondo skills alone. I agree that each yonkou leader could possibly be around admiral or shichibukai level (peak of human capability), possibly weaker, possibly stronger. that's irrelevant. what matters is each yonkou group consists of its men, its talent pool
 

kulugo

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like i said, as long as the yonkou doesn't work together, they won't stand a chance against the marines.
 

hyper_megaman

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like i said, as long as the yonkou doesn't work together, they won't stand a chance against the marines.
i highly doubt this

there's a reason the marines still haven't breached the new world and the yonkou were still the yonkou

i'm guessing any individual yonkou is enough to give them a good fight at least. sengokou had to give a converging order to all marines worldwide to assemble before he was even confident of taking wb head on. the moment shanks came, they had no choice but to stop. each yonkou is enough to match the entire marine forces, if just any 2 of them work together the marines would probably lose
 

kulugo

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good fight yes but still they would lose, sengoku had to round up all marines bec, it's WB, the worlds strongest man with ALLIES, you don't under estimate guys like that and besides you need all the advantage you could get.

but until the yonkou works alone, they can't defeat the marines, but 2 or 3 yonkou together is a different story. and i think whitebeard is the most powerful yonkou of the 4, shanks doesn't seem to have armies like WB, and big mam and kaidou we have no info but shanks defeated kaidou right?
 

BlackHair

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You have to keep in mind that the MHQ are fighting EVERY evil force out there. That goes from Yonko to every small pirate. Thus there fighting power is divided. Same goes for the upper fighting force such as the Admirals. It's not like those three are travelling on the same ship. If they would unite, then they are definitely powerful enough to take out a single Yonko. However meanwhile their base or the island which stands under their protections, could be attacked. It's like a strategy game.
 

Gourab

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Power of one yonkou doesn't tell us that the others are equally powerful. Whitebeard was considered the strongest geezer among them, but still we do not know about the others much. Shank also has Emperor's Haki, but his crew looks to have less members than the Whitebeard crew. So, currently I think RA is the strongest. They have Ivankov and Dragon who are damn strong.
 

kkck

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I think we have to take everything within the context of each group.

The "yonko" are not a gruop, it is merely a way to refer to to 4 pirate crews with extreme power who work independently from each other. The shichibukai are not a group either, they are merely 7 independent folks who work for the world government. In this regard, it is not appropriate to compare the yonko and shichibukai as a whole to other forces.

Based on what we saw I would think that at least each individual yonko has in some form military strength comparable to the marines. Luckily the yonko are also each others enemies so the marines don't have to deal with them at one. WB had the larger crew but I kinda doubt that means much. his commanders were his main crewmembers, the rest were either normal people or rookies not worth mentioning. The reason WB was so hard to fight against was that along with his crew he also had 50 new world captains behind him and their crews of which each captain and main crewmembers probably had a decent degree of strength. The combination of his 14 commanders and 50 new world captains allowed WB to fight evenly with the admirals, VAs and elite marines that the world government had. As far as infantry goes, the WB allies probably could match the world governments military force but I would still think that the vast mayority of the army's power was large concentrated in the commanders and captains just like the marines had the vast majority of their power concentrated on their admirals, VAs and other elite marines.

Now, are these numbers hard to match for other yonko? A yonko having 10 strong crewmembers is not that out there for the most part and gathering 50 allies is not that far out there either. Of course, for many strong people gathering these number of strong fighters would probably be a challenge in itself.

The revolutionary army would appear to fit a similar condition. They have dragon, their fearless leader, and their commanders who based on the guys we have seen would appear to be strong as hell (kuma, ivankov and inazuma).

About the balance of the world I have something to say. Based on what we have seen throughout the manga, you can get military strength from numbers but ultimately you can only do so much with that. The world government and the WB pirates had numbers in the thousands and yet what made the biggest difference in the war was not military strength (it did help though) but rather how strong the strong individuals on their side were. Even large scale military tactics used during the war had to necessarily be backed up by someone with actual strength, the masses on their own could not hope to oppose strong individuals. If we consider this, the importance of the shichibukai in the balance of the world becomes evident. If the 7 shichibukai fight the WB pirates or the world government as a whole I would think they'd get butchered to say the least. On the other hand, the shichibukai are not expected to take on the entire military and individual might of those forces. The strength of the world government and the individual yonko lies in the few members they have who have a degree of strength. In this regard, losing a measly one person of strength can have a huge impact.

The marines have

1 fleet admiral
3 admirals
20 VA (we have seen around that many at least)
randome marines with a degree of strength (smoker for example although he is not quite strong enough to make a difference in the grand scheme of things)
militia (worthless fodder incapable of doing anything on their own)

WB had:

WB
14 commanders
50 NW captain allies
Random strong members who are not capable of making a difference in the grand scheme of things
Militia


This is where the shichibukai come in. They as a group are probably not a match for the sheer number of strong enemies that large organizations have (7 vs 20, 30 or 60 right?) but in turn the shichibukai add up to the forces the marines have. the situation was not that the marines were equal to the 4 combined yonko hence they were in balance with them but rather that the marines and each individual yonko have comparable military forces and as a result a delicate balance was reached thanks to the individual strong members they have.

its not like this: marines= shichibukai = yonko
but rather : marines = kaido pirates = red hair pirates = WB pirates = big mom pirates

This is where the shichibukai come in. Since there is this rather delicate balance of power maintained not by the strength of their militia but rather a select group of strong individuals we get that a mere 1 extra member can make a HUGE, OVERWHELMING, and ENORMOUS difference in how these gargantuan forces interact. In this regard perhaps the scenario which we have is perhaps more along the lines of these:

marines + shihcibukai = kaido pirates = red hair pirates = WB pirates = big mom pirates

Of course even that is a rather simplistic view of the whole thing, for the most part this would work only in an scenario where the forces collide against each other with their full might as was the case in the war. In more general situations the actual strong people of each force would actually be scattered around fulfilling a number of roles which would include leading the militia which in turn would add up to the chaos. You can't have that many strong people everywhere either meaning that if things go wrong one of the players here could go out of his way to send an actual strong fighter and have a militia with not very strong people obliterated without the chance to fight back.

Heck, even what is happening with hodi's army shows the importance of lone strong people. Hodi had a fantastically well organized army. he had each group fulfill specific fighting duties such as poisoning, close combat and so on...Heck, his army was in itself larger than the marines and WB's force during the war. What went wrong? He did not have actual strong people backing them up. If hodi actually had strong people backing his army then the strawhats would not be capable of freely mowing through them. Heck, if there was someone strong backing the armies up then perhaps they could actually make a difference when dealing with the strawhats as they could attack along with whoever is leading them.
 

lawrence

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I don't know why you guys keep mentioning that there are 7 shichibukai. the seven shichibukais were boa hancock, domflamingo, kuma, mihawk, blackbeard, zombie guy, jimbei. Jimbei and blackbeard renounced their titles of shichibukais. kuma and the zombie guy are dead. domflamingo and 2 PXs killed him. Kuma was completely modified by Dr. Vegapunk, and protected the strawhats' ship. This leaves only three actual shichibukai. The only schibukais are mihawk, boa hancock, and domflamingo.

I think the balance of power of the marines+shichibukai=yonkou is broken.
WB's death crumbled 1/4 of the yonkou.

The power of the yonkou is more like a standstill of similar powers. If two of the yonkou fight and one wins, the winner would obviously be critically injured. Then one of the other two yonkou may decide to eliminate the victor.

My thoughts of the powers:

The marines are mostly intact after the war, they lost thousands of marines but those guys can be replaced easily. As far as we know, the marines themselves have not lost much during the war, but are gradually losing guys do to pirate attacks.

The shichibukai is a group of three men after the war. People may have filled in the four vacant spots just for show, but no one has mentioned there are any new shichibukai after the war. So I think that the shichibukai isn't even worth considering as a powerful force.

The yonkou, for the most part lost "1/4 of its military might." We do not know if their balance of power has been broken yet.

The revolutionary army, have been trying to gain trust of as many nations as possible before trying to directly destroy the WG. We do not have enough information to consider whether or not the RA is a powerful force.

I think the marine is the strongest group of the four powers, since its so far the only united group. The shichibukai and yonkou are people with trememdous power, not an united force. The RA is usually not mentioned, and have not done any noticeable so far in the series.
 

kkck

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Well, referring to the 7 shichibukai makes it easier to explain points in the context of the manga of how things were when they were actually in balance.

That said, I think kuma is still a shichibukai. Now that his last mission to the strawhats is complete I would think he went back and took up whatever duties he had with the world government.
 

lawrence

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Btw, i forgot to add to my post about the WG, Garp and Sengoku retired. I think the ice dude is the new fleet admiral, since Sengoku nominated him to become the next fleet admiral.
 
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