Discussion Which group is the strongest?

[takneeque]

Of course the Shichibukai are not a group either, at least not according the original definition of the term "group" but they still differ from the Yonkou. The Shichibukai have to work together at one point, namely when the WG calls them. The Yonkou on the other hand will never work together, unless you are assuming that Luffy will be one at the end of the story and that he will have Yonkou allies which in turn is probably not what the guy who started this thread referred to. The "members" of the Yonkou have a legitimate chance to overthrow the WG and rule the world if they had allied with another one of the Yonkou, not matter which one. Why do you think that never happened? Because they are unable to work together.

My point still stands as well, the Yonkou would still be standing at the end. Chances are, only the supernova pirates would last long enough if war broke out between Yonkou and the pirates, or all groups involved. And I'm not saying they will work together, I'm saying what if, it's hypothetical. Whitebeard's crew alone was enough to take on the Marines and for the most part, shichibukai, especially Whitebeard, who was nowhere near the level he used to be.

Though, with that logic then shichibukai shouldn't be considered a group either. They're only brought together by the government and thus only fight when ordered to.

exactly.my point being,if WG gets tired of piracy and if they would want to end the world of piracy in one piece once and for all,they can do nothing
about beating the yonkou.remember,they had to bring WB to marine headquarters(the place gives them more advantage),not the other way round.when the fight is going to be about the survival of the piracy,all yonkou would come together.here i do not point out the power difference,just the complicacies of taking a yonkou head on.

now,about power levels of yonkou and WG(marines,cp9.. ,sichibukai etc.),the ambiguity is about the definitions of these organisations.yonkou,i think is
a term for all the 4 big shot pirates(they rule the new world,all together.hence,the marines have not much influence(probably)on the the other side of
grand line,ergo the term new world.).also,WB(and gang) took on the whole of WG alone,so each yonkou would have to be stronger or as strong as the marines.again the poll differentiates between all four(yonkou,sichibukai,marines and RA) groups,i.e. WG may be strong enough to take a yonkou(i
don't think WG can take all yonkou at once)but only on a war by war basis(depending on the availability of sichibukai and other factors).they surely can't trust sichibukai.now,about comparing marines and a yonkou,with the resources at the disposal of marines,i think they can take on a yonkou,yes.what
i think important,are,the consequences of such an exchange.if marines fight a yonkou they can take on one(probably,without sichibukai), but
if top tier fighters on both sides really turn it up,i don't think there would be much left to look forward to,vis a vis spoils of the war.both sides shall be
weakened heavily.a yonkou having more top tier fighters shall easily decimate a place like marinefold.look what sengoku,WB could do.

hence,in accordance with the poll,

All Yonkou>WG>individual yonkou's ~= marines >sichibukai ........................ i wouldn't try to guess the powers of RA as there is not much info on them.technically they should be sub par than marines as they are still in hiding and do not choose(kinda waiting) to take the marines head on(though
fighting WG is an eventuality and might be besides the point,for Dragon,revolutionaries).

 

[jaymizzo]

They don´t have to pat each other on the back but they are not allowed to fight against each other, get in each other´s way and so forth.

It hasnt been said or noted that they have to be nice to each other etc. They can kill each other if they saw fit IMO, they are not bound by any rules that we have seen (atleast myself).

Each and everyone of them has theyre own agenda.

 

[MiyamotoMusashi]

It hasnt been said or noted that they have to be nice to each other etc. They can kill each other if they saw fit IMO, they are not bound by any rules that we have seen (atleast myself).

Each and everyone of them has theyre own agenda.

No, they can´t do that. The Shichibukai do not outright work for the WG, they obviously have their own agenda but they are something like a business partner to the WG. Their past crimes and their business/agenda are tolerated as long as they swear allegiance once they are needed + a certain percentage of their profit. What do you think would happen if one business partner started attacking other business partner without the order of the WG? We can discuss what kind of repercussions it would have but not whether there would be repercussions at all. Best example is Law who is currently attacking DD. Akainu immediately sent an Admiral to deal with him and Luffy.

 

[jaymizzo]

No, they can´t do that. The Shichibukai do not outright work for the WG, they obviously have their own agenda but they are something like a business partner to the WG. Their past crimes and their business/agenda are tolerated as long as they swear allegiance once they are needed + a certain percentage of their profit. What do you think would happen if one business partner started attacking other business partner without the order of the WG? We can discuss what kind of repercussions it would have but not whether there would be repercussions at all. Best example is Law who is currently attacking DD. Akainu immediately sent an Admiral to deal with him and Luffy.

Law isnt that big of an asset to the WG as say Mihawk. We saw Mihawk decide to leave during the Marineford war as soon as Shanks appeared. If anyone had told him to stay he would immedietly ignore them regardless of who it was.

They are not bound to WG rules IMO and i see them as individuals rather than a group. Since Shichibukai are considered a group, i dont see why Yonkous are any different. I gave an example of a time where they could possibly work together against a common enemy. Isnt that what the Shichibukai and WG do in wars? Fight a common enemy?

 

[suraj5898]

Law isnt that big of an asset to the WG as say Mihawk. We saw Mihawk decide to leave during the Marineford war as soon as Shanks appeared. If anyone had told him to stay he would immedietly ignore them regardless of who it was.

They are not bound to WG rules IMO and i see them as individuals rather than a group. Since Shichibukai are considered a group, i dont see why Yonkous are any different. I gave an example of a time where they could possibly work together against a common enemy. Isnt that what the Shichibukai and WG do in wars? Fight a common enemy?

i also agree with u if u r considering Shichibukai a group u have to considered yonkou as group and if u dont then Shichibukai r also not a group .

i dont think Akainu sent an Admiral to deal with Law and Luffy was because Law is currently attacking DD but because of luffy or/and he know about DD's underworld connection

 

[M3J]

Why aren't Yonkou considered a group? Because they fight each other and don't work with each other? WG has to threaten Shichibukai to do that or force them somehow, usually. Shichibukai don't always listen to the government either - like Boa. Hell, Doflamingo wasn't scared of messing with some Marines for the fun of it, and he had no qualms about killing Moria.

Shichibukai can probably kill each other if they wanted to, but like Yonkou attacking each other, it would have repercussions. Does any Marine not involved directly even know that Doflamingo attacked Moria? Once again, I don't see why you can say shichibukai are a group when they're usually forced to work together and don't mind disobeyin the government or attackin the other if necessary. They're not cohesive, from what we've seen.

 

[kkck]

To be fair even if the shichibukai as a group worked together they would still not IMO live up to the sheer might of other groups. The shichibukai usually only consider each individual member as far as it strength goes however even if we take in consideration strength of their crews they do not live up to the others. Even with their crews they would have something along the lines of this:

-Law:

his crew is likely strong but only 2 people stood out in the past. I guess they now have stronger members. Still, the most extreme scenario is some strawhatish growrth and they consist of 10 or so strong people.​

-Buggy:

Buggy is not strong at all. His crew would be made out of his old crew and the ID prisoners but not a single one of them would be worth more than your average pre time skip rookie. In terms of numbers they might be worth something because they could have a relatively large number of level 5 and 4 prisoners but that would only be an exceptionally strong militia. That still means they need an army to take out even a pacifista...​

-Hancock:

She is without a doubt exceptional but by no means her crew is or was worth a damn. A strong militia but without several more people of actual strength they are not worth much​

-Flamingo:

His crew might actually be strong and numerous enough. Still, it is the one crew among the shichibukai worth a damn at large. I guess one crew could indeed make a difference but even then I doubt his main crewmembers exceed the monster trio at large. If they are even then certainly they would make an overwhelming difference but IMO still not quite enough to matter against the sheer might of other organizations​

-Mihawk has no crew
-Kuma has no crew
-We don't know anything about the last guy


Now, at any given time the full might of the world government would be made out of:

-The fleet admiral
-In the past 3 admirals, now at least 1
-About 20 confirmed VAs all of varied strength level and all of whom without fail being confirmed haki users
- Commodores. They are of varied strengths but overall they seem to be pretty decent. Smoker was one before the timeskip and he was about as strong or stronger than luffy so in general they are not quite negligible.
-Captains: Weak if compared to rookies or actually strong people but the stronger ones seem to be decent fighters (hina easily bested bon kurei). What they lack for strength they make up for in numbers and a large number of them seem to be ability users. Numbers are what is most relevant of them.
-The rest. Their strength is in numbers and military might and tactics. They don't have to be strong, they have to be numerous and fire weapons. They could easily number in the thousands and would be the ones behind battleships. And as jinbe said, battleships are not to be taken lightly.

And at any given time a yonko is made out of:

-The emperor, potentially somewhere in between anequal to an admiral and WB in terms of strength.
-10 or so strong crewmembers. In here you would see the main crew of the yonko in question. A few people capable of standing up to admirals and the rest perhaps comparable to VAs and shichibukai. Still, everyone here matters and would make upt he bulk of the strength of a yonko. WB had his commanders here and shanks main crewmembers would be here.
-Allied crews: Variable strength, captains in all likelihood experienced haki and ability users (at least the more relevant ones). Lots of people and lesser members would make the militia perhaps.

Overall I don't quite get the impression the shichibukai at large actually can stand up to any of this forces even together.

 

[Ninomiya]

I would say the RA since like people have said, their Leader is SO wanted.
Do you understand in this series how important and special a man has to be called "THE WORLD'S MOST WANTED"?
With all this, if his organization wasn't extremely dangerous I reckon he would have been caught by now.

With characters like Fujitora being introduced as active high-ranking marines and many marines at the Vice-Admiral level all on the search for Highly-Wanted people I strongly believe the RA are the most dangerous.
I hope that there are other members of the Revolutionary Army with rather high bounties in the future.

@kkck you missed out the title "Rear Admirals" after Vice-Admirals.

 

[kkck]

Ahh yes, I forgot the RAs. I think those should be of some considerable power, at least a few of them should be worth mentioning.

I can't imagine the revolutionary army being that strong though. They certainly have powerful warriors with them (dragon, kuma, ivankov and inazuma are certainly excellent warriors) however at large it does not seem like they have that much power over anything. The strawhats actually travelled the first half of the grand line without ever meeting them at all even though they are supposed to be wagging wars freeing countries. They have even gotten to the second island of the new world and they have yet to hear a thing. If they were wagging wars in the new world they would have the yonko and the marines as enemies for that matter. I am certain they have a group of very strong people at their top and they could even be more numerous than the yonko but as of now we have hardly felt their influence in the manga. I don't think we can asses just how strong they are.

 

[Anduren]

I can't imagine the revolutionary army being that strong though. They certainly have powerful warriors with them (dragon, kuma, ivankov and inazuma are certainly excellent warriors) however at large it does not seem like they have that much power over anything. The strawhats actually travelled the first half of the grand line without ever meeting them at all even though they are supposed to be wagging wars freeing countries. They have even gotten to the second island of the new world and they have yet to hear a thing. If they were wagging wars in the new world they would have the yonko and the marines as enemies for that matter. I am certain they have a group of very strong people at their top and they could even be more numerous than the yonko but as of now we have hardly felt their influence in the manga. I don't think we can asses just how strong they are.

There's actually a reasonable explanation for this. Revolutions are usually planned and carried out in secret because of the sensitivity of the implementation. A lot of what goes on happens behind the scenes kinda like espionage where, neither do the revolutionaries want the governments to know what they're planning nor does the government want to let the revolutionaries know how much they know of their plans.

A bit of this was shown when Spandam gathered CP9 at Ennies Lobby (chapter 375 pages 14 & 15) and was talking about how Jyabura, Kumadori, and Fukurou were supposed to assasinate 3 rebellion leaders but ended up killing 23 people because Fukurou leaked information.

Unless the strawhats showed up on an island just when a rebellion was planned and taking place and got directly involved because of someone (like in Arabasta), there is little to no chance any of the revolutions would be announced on newspapers or shown publicly because it would make the World Government look weak (and they don't want that). Even in Arabasta it was shown how the government (Cobra, Chakka, etc.) knew there was a rebellion building up but wasn't moving openly against it.

The fact that there's so little known about the revolutionary army does make it's power and influence really hard to gauge though so I can't say anything much bout that.

 

[Ninomiya]

Ah I just remembered, I might choose Doflamingo's group.
Remember the first Shichibukai meeting?
that Lafitte of Blackbeards crew interrupted?

Well, Doflamingo if you all remember, arrived and calmly manipulated and messed with TWO VICE-ADMIRALS lol.
Remember how they were strangling each other and drawing their swords against their will?
If Doflamingo can casually do that to Vice-Admirals... Then I don't even want to know how dangerous he is in combat just yet.

 

[suraj5898]

Ah I just remembered, I might choose Doflamingo's group.
Remember the first Shichibukai meeting?
that Lafitte of Blackbeards crew interrupted?

Well, Doflamingo if you all remember, arrived and calmly manipulated and messed with TWO VICE-ADMIRALS lol.
Remember how they were strangling each other and drawing their swords against their will?
If Doflamingo can casually do that to Vice-Admirals... Then I don't even want to know how dangerous he is in combat just yet.

Doflamingo is one of strong in one piece but i dont think he is one of strongest.
right now he is not Shichibukai so if he fight against any 1 of 4 group i m 100% sure he will loss .
u have read Marines vs WB war where WB play with lots of Marines elite fighter so u can see WB was on higher level for playing with Marines fighters

 

[kkck]

Well, doflamingo did control a couple of VAs however I do think it is extremely possible doflamingo will prove to be extremely powerful even by new world standards, perhaps even a match for admirals. Just look at how powerful vergo was and even then it seems he has stronger crewmates with the 4 guys named after cards. Even smoker was basically fodder to him. As of now doflamingo has been shown controlling a VA and defeating another one more than easily... It wouldn't be strange at all if he really was comparable to an admiral to some degree.